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working with children

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  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:54 AM

Set the bar high. not win/lose but good/ better. They all can sit here and watch a P-61 training video on their iPhone while you talk, if they care to.

I don't like to talk down to people but I do like to challenge them.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by waynec on Saturday, March 19, 2011 8:25 PM

thanks for all the input. he is 8 and has a younger brother. his mother brought them to our meeting and we presented him with an "honary junior member" membership card, a jolly roger kit, glue (the testors black long spout which i use also) and an xacto knife, with his mom's permission. seems his teacher is also encouraging him and has another child in her class interested in ww2 ships. (i recall iwas interested in ships at that time too. still am and some days i feel i don't paint that much better). it's a private school.

i think i will pick up a copy of the kit as well. i have made 3 work boards out of free scrap wood from home depot that they even cut to size for free. i bordered them on the bottom and half way up each side with basswoos strips and sealed the inside "seam" with wood glue. this prevents me from sliding parts off inyo my lap, the concrete floor, or the rug. big enough for a small cutting board. think i will make one for him so any spills are contained on the board.

we hope to see him at our monthly workshop to start on it. is mom says he has soccer and lacrosse so it's a tight schedule. at the worksjhop he will be with his mom or dad or teacher and about a dozen club members who are snorting sawdust while i sniff glue. that way he has other things to look at when he gets bored, we'll have additionl tools we can "borrow". hell i may have to work on a ship model there instead of 1/35 armor.

 

Никто не Забыт    (No one is Forgotten)
Ничто не Забыто  (Nothing is Forgotten)

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 1:44 PM

von Gekko

I've been revisiting this hobby after 20 years and introducing my 12 year old son.  We're nearly finished with a 1/32 A-10 and we'll be starting on a 1/72 MiG-25 this weekend.  I've been trying to create a balance between fun and quality/accuracy.  He does the fun parts and I follow up and show him how you can refine each step a bit.

For the A-10 I had him do the easy part of each step and then I would follow with the detail work.  I had him cut peices from the sprues and then I would do some trimming and sanding.  He did a lot of the gluing and I did some filling and shaping.  I did the masking and helped him do the spray painting.  We split the decals with him doing the easy, inconspicuous ones and I did the harder ones.  We'll do a sludge wash this weekend and he can enjoy slopping it on while I clean it off.

When the MiG arrived yesterday we took the peices and instructions out to get an idea of how it would be.  He immediately said he wanted to paint it like it was an American aircraft.  I reflexively balked and said we should paint it like a "real" MiG-25. 

Now I think I may reconsider his idea, at the very least because it might increase his investment and interest in the project.  So, maybe using the idea that through various means countries may acquire and repurpose enemy equipment (at the very least to study it) we can suppose this plane was some type of espionage prize.  Maybe we'll get some after-market decals for a 1970's US fighter and use them along with USAF colors but in the same Soviet pattern.  Who knows, but it should be fun!

Ditto

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by von Gekko on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 1:42 PM

I've been revisiting this hobby after 20 years and introducing my 12 year old son.  We're nearly finished with a 1/32 A-10 and we'll be starting on a 1/72 MiG-25 this weekend.  I've been trying to create a balance between fun and quality/accuracy.  He does the fun parts and I follow up and show him how you can refine each step a bit.

For the A-10 I had him do the easy part of each step and then I would follow with the detail work.  I had him cut peices from the sprues and then I would do some trimming and sanding.  He did a lot of the gluing and I did some filling and shaping.  I did the masking and helped him do the spray painting.  We split the decals with him doing the easy, inconspicuous ones and I did the harder ones.  We'll do a sludge wash this weekend and he can enjoy slopping it on while I clean it off.

When the MiG arrived yesterday we took the peices and instructions out to get an idea of how it would be.  He immediately said he wanted to paint it like it was an American aircraft.  I reflexively balked and said we should paint it like a "real" MiG-25. 

Now I think I may reconsider his idea, at the very least because it might increase his investment and interest in the project.  So, maybe using the idea that through various means countries may acquire and repurpose enemy equipment (at the very least to study it) we can suppose this plane was some type of espionage prize.  Maybe we'll get some after-market decals for a 1970's US fighter and use them along with USAF colors but in the same Soviet pattern.  Who knows, but it should be fun!

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 12:31 PM

waynec

our club workshop had a young 'un visit us last month as part of a school project. we are going to make him an honorary member and may buy him a plastic pirate ship kit. as everyone in the club (Rocky Mountain Shipwrights) except me builds wooden ship models, i may be helping him build it. never done that before and don't have children. any suggestions besides "if he wants to paint it pink, let him. it's his model."

ps KV-2s are even uglier when painted in a multi pink striped camoflauge.

it seems like the conversation went a little sideways.

I agree that you should let your young'un paint the kit however he or she wants. once you start putting rules as to how they should build kits it could start to ruin the fun. for some reason "historically accurate finantics" turn me off to modeling some times. It just seems to suck the fun out of modeling.

I also like the comment of "what would your pirate ship look like?" I built a lindberg "Jolly Roger" kit and did just that. i picked the colors based on what i thought it should look like. and that is still one of my favorite builds to date. you could collect some pictures of "pirate" ships throughout the ages for reference and throw in some historical ships as well to spark thier interest and see if the desire for historical accuracy grows.

remember that modeling is about having fun. it's a hobby. people need to make thier build's there own.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:19 AM

but by all means... silly.... is just plain ol fun...YesEatsPropellerPirate

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:13 AM

I think a good blend of all the "non" sillyWhistling comments will work for you.. when my son started to build,. he at first would follow the "destructions" ,, but later on he wanted to be more creative.. No pink pirate ships, but some NASCAR's got grafted on to Monster truck chassis, and some odd painting occured.. but he had fun, and thats what counts...Toast

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:07 AM

autovomatic88

No it wasnt directed to anyone at all. Sorry if that came out the wrong way. I am just saying that there is a lot of great Sheenisms out there. More than just Tiger Blood. But its to the point. 

...yeah, I just took the "How does that sum it up for you?" as a jab at me for my earlier comment that your Battle of the Bulge summation was innacurate...feel free to PM me...

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Wisconsin, Appleton
Posted by autovomatic88 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:01 AM

No it wasnt directed to anyone at all. Sorry if that came out the wrong way. I am just saying that there is a lot of great Sheenisms out there. More than just Tiger Blood. But its to the point. 

"Mark VI, and we've got it by the ass."

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Crawfordsville, Indiana
Posted by Wabashwheels on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 8:19 AM

I don't get it.  I hope that's not an insult.  Insults are not a good way to make new friends.  Rick.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 7:51 AM

Was that you directing that comment at me?

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Wisconsin, Appleton
Posted by autovomatic88 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 4:18 PM

You need more than just Tiger Blood...... Here is a good one for you...."I am to busy at winning, I dont have time to talk to losers" 

How does that one sum up for you? 

"Mark VI, and we've got it by the ass."

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 3:17 PM

Tiger blood...

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Wisconsin, Appleton
Posted by autovomatic88 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 3:15 PM

I am for the purple..... and for the record you need a sheenism here. You borrow my brain for 5 seconds and be just like, "dude cant handle it unplug this ***." There you go. Problem Solved.

Ships no Pink. Idea

"Mark VI, and we've got it by the ass."

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:50 PM

Florescent green? Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:49 PM

...no...

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:48 PM

how about pearlescent purple?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:45 PM

Ditto...just don't let 'em paint it pink...

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:43 PM

Hi Wayne,

I think that it is great that you folks are taking the time to bring in kids.

A couple of thoughts...

Your approach should depend on the age of your honorary member.

First through about fifth grade, kids are sponges... being very creative and wanting to try everything. Just the opportunity to play with things which might be a "chore" or "challenge" to parents at home, like getting to slap paint on something can be a real charge to a kid this age.  Also at this age, the process is going to be more important than the result, so make it fun.  Ask them  "What would YOUR pirate ship look like?" Also, they may not have the manual dexterity to deal with assembly of smal pieces. I would recommend a relatively large, simple kit with lots of open deck space, like Revell's Santa Maria or Mayflower.  Any such vessel could be a pirate.

Don't loose track of the fact that a kid's most likely interest is in pirates, not pirate ships. A larger scale model will provide the opportunity to populate it with pirates. Begin and end sessions with work on a pirate figure or pirate paraphenalia, like cannons and swords. Obviously 1/96th scale is not going to work well.

Don't fret about historical accuracy or scale. On a larger kit, just focus on fitting the largest pirate figure that you can in the space.  And forget rigging... a few strings will do, especially if it includes what we older folks would call a "Tarzan rope", or in sailor parlance a "splat line". 

For younger kids, you might consider pre-assembly of components and allow them to focus on larger sub-assemblies, painting and placement of figures. Also, having a basic hull/deck assembly available, even if it is just taped together is a great stimuli. Letting them see their figures on board, painted and unpainted gives them an opportunity to see the transformation/ progess as they go.

Balancing subassembly time and limiting total project time is critical at this age.  Since you are working with an individual, you can tailor your approach to the kid's age, motivation and abilities.

Around fifth grade, or older, manual dexterity and interest level can lead to a simple scratch built vessel. Again, it needs to cater to their imagination, not interest in historical accuracy. A good example for a simple scratch build is an ancient Egyptian Nile river barge. It can be as simple or as elaborate as the modeler's interest inclines. and provides much appeal to the imagination (funeral barge with painted sarcaphagous on deck - or Cleopatra and her maids?). Reference material for Egyptian decoration are readily available, and since there are not many records of what the vessels looked like, reduced pressure for "historical accuracy".  A simple hull can be carved from a balsa or soft wood block. A single mast with a single square sail is simple to fabricate and rig. The sail and the hull require decoration with opportunities for phased, discrete, simple operations. A relatively large scale provides opportunity for populating it by modifying commercially available figures.

Anything that I would do would cater to the following objectives, which should all trump OUR modeling objectives, ie. historical accuracy or showcang OUR modeling skills.

1.) remember that we are contributing to the raising of ADULTS, not children. Our objective is not to create a museum quality model but to develop skills and constructive attributes and habits in our young wards.

2.) patience is grown, bit by bit. Modeling provides the opportunity to develop this important attribute. Today, it has to be teased out of children, not forced. Today's environment is focused on short duration visual stimulation and, other than game controls, offers little opportunity to develop manual dexterity.  Break down the project into phases, starting in short sessions, for younger kids, perhaps no more than fifteen minutes or so. Start and end the sessions by stimulating the kid's motivation to participate. Your objective should be to extend the kid's attention span, and work session duration over time.

3.) Always remember that positive reinforcement is critical. Resist the temptation to be the "master". That comes later, when the kid has developed the wherewithal to really appreciate the quality of your work. Too high of a standard will be discouraging in the early phases. Don't be afraid to lay on the praise.

4.) Stress safety and good, organized work practices. These things are ingrained by repeated supervised, "doing", not learned from lectures.  Realize that you may be the only source of how to approach the use of "hazardous tools and materials".  This presents an opportunity for you to review your own practices in using sharp objects and volatile solvents... try to avoid passing on bad habits.  Supervise everything and consider age and individual capabilities - Don't be afraid to correct bad or dangerous practices - at this level, the development of skills and safe practice should be your primary objective and concern, not historical accuracy.

5.) Work to develop inquisitiveness and forethought. Don't make all of the decisions, or attempt to instruct on the fine points of rigging shroud lanyards. Again, throw historical accuracy out the window for first projects and develop the interest and lay the foundations for basic research skills over time. Hopefully you can locate references at a local library and steer your young modeler to them after he or she is "hooked". Ultimately, learning and practicing  basic research and planning skills  may be the most benefical impacts on a child's life.

6.) Be aware of the crazy litigous world that we live in. It is always a good idea to have other adults (preferably including the kid's parent(s)) present when working with someone else's children. Be aware of legal requirements for background checks, etc. for the circumstances that you are in.  Be aware of your liability insurance coverage - is it through your homeowner's insurance or is it through the club? Can you work this through a local scout troop or similar organization that can provide such insurance? -- What will happen if your young modeler gets a nasty cut from an X-acto blade?  I'm not qualified to give legal advice, but remember - What you are doing is very commendable, and important - but as they used to say at sea - "one hand for the ship, one hand for me". 

 

Again, I am glad to see your club take the initiative in this area. Good luck with your endeavors.

 

 

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:43 PM

I guess Charlie rubbed off on you more than I thought Manny. Now don't go around with a machete here.


13151015

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:36 PM

Tiger blood...

  • Member since
    July 2008
Posted by ModelWarships on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:09 PM

I am going to have to agree with Borg. Let them have fun, accuracy and other things can come later.

Timothy Dike

Owner and founder

ModelWarships.com

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 1:16 AM

I have done some modelling with kids (nephews and counsins) and my tips would be:

- it is about fun in building, not accuracy
- do not build to long, then it becomes a chore
- simplify where you can
- help where neccesary but let them do a lot even when this is detrimental to the "quality"
- find a subject they like, could be traditional like ships, armor or aircraft but things like Gundam robots or Warhammer figures and kits are modelling to!

  • Member since
    March 2010
Posted by shoot&scoot on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:07 AM

Looking back on it I guess my first real "models" were a couple of pond sail boats my dad found wrecked below the dam at Kletzch Park in Glendale (northern Milwaukee suburb) when I was about 5.  He showed me how to make new masts and booms, sew up and rig the sails and attach the string for the rudder.  Even though one was a single masted sloop and the other a yawl I insisted that they have canons on them.  In no time both were equiped with soda straw canons and I was happy.

Years later I realized how ridiculous both boats looked and spent considerable time painting them up to look like the real ones down at the marina but it was something I had to learn on my own.  To this day I pretty much toe the historical accuracy line but when I've mentored children I do what my Dad did with me and just let them have fun.  I figure the need for realism will come later and they'll get around to it on their own time.

                                                                                        Pat.

                                                                                   

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Maine
Posted by Stage_Left on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:50 PM

Hi Wayne-

My club does make and takes multiple times a year at different events for kids, and the big thing for me is patience, patience, and more patience. I also cringe inside if things don't come out particularly accurate, but that's the (somewhat) experienced modeler in me. The kids want to express their creativity, and if it helps hook them, then so be it.

This experience, along with stepdaughters and granddaughters, has enlightened me to new levels of patience and tolerance. Love 'em all, but holy cow........

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by Mad-Modeler on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:47 PM

When I was a lil one my father did wooden ships. Of course no way that a 5yr old could touch those or help out.

So he got me started on plastic-models instead, did my share of wooden models over the decades(part of that due to school as we had to design and build a few for wood workshop.

So depending on age ...

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:40 PM

Speaking as a kid... (ok, I'm 17, but not THAT far away) history is what reeled me in. I was interested in tanks, airplanes, etc. Kids might be interested in cars, sci-fi, whatever. Reel us in with the fun stuff. There's always tme to learn historical accuracy stuff later. A KV-2 sporting white and pink stripes may be sacrilege, but hey, at least the kids are having fun, and may build in the future.

 

I highly recommend selecting kits like cars, star wars stuff, modern jets. You might be able to give a quick history lesson about historical kits, exciting ones. Stories of WWII tank aces, WWI pilot aces, heroic ships like the johnston, etc. Keep it EXCITING! Keep it fun!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:34 PM

As long as he is having fun and learning the basics, I would let him experiment. The fine-tuning will come with time.....   patience   patience

(easy for me to say,,,,   I don't have kids either.......)

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:24 PM

I disagree too; FIRST you set the hook, THEN you reel them in!

 

I also don't mind if they drift away for a couple of years; they'll need a hobby once they settle down and can't chase after members of the opposite sex!

Tracy White Researcher@Large

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