Public disrespect for Historical Artifacts

How true Rich. Though I've never been to the Memorial, I've seen other places that are trashed out by nit wits....I'll bend down and pick up some trash if there is enough folks to see me.

It does give folks a second thought. 

I haven't witnessed this during my visits to the memorial. You must have been there on a particularly bad day.

I completely agree with what you are saying, although I would add that it's more than simple disrespect for a historic artifact - it's also disrespectful to for their own forefathers, their country.................................., it's actually a complete disgrace.

There was an incident in London a few months ago where a protester saw fit to swing from the Cenotaph in Whitehall. The Cenotaph represents the lives of millions who gave or lost their lives for their country so that the same protester can enjoy the freedom that our country has today.

I don't know what the whole lack of respect deal is nowadays, but it's both disgusting & disturbing.  

The only reason to have memorials, is to remember why they became memorials.

But sadly, the general truth is most have forgotten the past, and most likely will deserve the next reminder when it comes, as they usually do, when the past was forgotten too much.

Most of WW2 (which I model) has been long since rendered an unremembered event. Most of the 90s is a stark reminder of how you can kill millions in the most horrible fashion, and yet we will still be capable of doing it again a short time later.

I spend most of most of my days, totally uninterested in most of what is going on out in the world. I have lost my capacity to care if the world finally gets flushed, like it seems like it needs to have happen to it.

There is nothing wrong with smoking!

Rich

I just visited the thread "USS Monitor turret water tank drained" which has been locked because of conflict between posters. The issue revolved around the alleged "elitist" attitude of conservators in protecting historical naval artifacts from the public while undergoing restoration. I don't want to resurrect that particular argument, but it brought to mind my poignant experience when visiting the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.

I stood with my wife on the deck below which rested the remains of more than 1100 of her crew, before the wall on which their names are engraved. She stood struck silent, moved to tears, I following close behind. Around us the floor littered with trash: chewing gum, cigarettes, candy and food wrappers and such. Loud conversation, raucous laughter, smoking, eating, and a lot of general grabassing surrounding us.

Call me elitist. The boorish, insensitive general public does not deserve other than very tightly controlled access to these treasures. In the instance of USS Arizona and her 1100 lost souls, the people responsible for the administration of the memorial are, IMHO, not nearly "elitist" enough.    

PritMar

There is nothing wrong with smoking!

@PritMar

Not to go too far off topic, and without intent to offend, I must say that if you truly believe that, you are in serious denial.

Rich

Not to go too far off topic, and without intent to offend, I must say that if you truly believe that, you are in serious denial.

Manstein's revenge

 

 Around us the floor littered with trash: chewing gum, cigarettes, candy and food wrappers and such. Loud conversation, raucous laughter, smoking, eating, and a lot of general grabassing surrounding us.

Call me elitist. The boorish, insensitive general public does not deserve other than very tightly controlled access to these treasures. In the instance of USS Arizona and her 1100 lost souls, the people responsible for the administration of the memorial are, IMHO, not nearly "elitist" enough.    

 

The behavior you cite has nothing to do with the fact that these people were at a memorial (although when I was there I saw nothing of the sort).  It has everything to do with the trend in bad behavior/lack of manners/etc. we see in every corner of life today.  Whether in a library, theatre, book store, pro ball game, etc....And it gets worse every year, IMO...

 

Years ago our firm had a highrise project under construction in downtown SF. The basement excavation uncovered, as they usually do, a Gold Rush ship that had been used as a warehouse and was full of stuff. The owner went into full PR mode, got the tv crews to come out and did a stand up announcing that he was hiring an archeologist and that construction was to be suspended until the survey was complete. Then he walked off camera, went to a phone booth, called me and said to have them out of there by EOB.

Money talks after all. Our species is by it's nature a pilfering rabble, and often we have to be saved from ourselves. I haven't been back to the Pearl Harbor Memorial in 40 years, but I thought that it's watched over by volunteers.

I was going through my father-in-laws stuff last night; my new second job, and I found a letter he wrote us about 20 years ago talking about how he gave money to the Mid Atlantic Air Museum for the restoration of the P-61 they have. He wanted to go out there with me, unfortunately we never did and he's gone now.

I think it's one of natures great ironies (pun intended) that something like the Monitor's turret needs to be restored over several of our lifetimes, never mind our short attention span.

bondoman

 I haven't been back to the Pearl Harbor Memorial in 40 years, but I thought that it's watched over by volunteers.

Happily enough I have not seen such behaviour at memorial sites. But it indeed is a disgrace if people behave this way.

Rich

I just visited the thread "USS Monitor turret water tank drained" which has been locked because of conflict between posters. The issue revolved around the alleged "elitist" attitude of conservators in protecting historical naval artifacts from the public while undergoing restoration. I don't want to resurrect that particular argument, but it brought to mind my poignant experience when visiting the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.

I stood with my wife on the deck below which rested the remains of more than 1100 of her crew, before the wall on which their names are engraved. She stood struck silent, moved to tears, I following close behind. Around us the floor littered with trash: chewing gum, cigarettes, candy and food wrappers and such. Loud conversation, raucous laughter, smoking, eating, and a lot of general grabassing surrounding us.

Call me elitist. The boorish, insensitive general public does not deserve other than very tightly controlled access to these treasures. In the instance of USS Arizona and her 1100 lost souls, the people responsible for the administration of the memorial are, IMHO, not nearly "elitist" enough.    

I was there 3 years ago and witnessed none of what you said. I don't disbelieve you, but perhaps they learned from that experience and are ensuring it doesn't happen again.

So many topics hit in this thread so far...

In general, yes the public in the US, at least here in California has horrible manners and widespread ignorance of anything not on prime time television or currently out in the popular movies. Not to mention no real care to self correct any deficiencies related. To paraphrase Admiral Nimitz- common sense is an uncommon virtue. Try serving the population at large every day for years on end and see what I mean.

Memorials. I have not been to the Arizona in over 30 years now so I cant comment on its current state. But I do recall on the several trips there prior, the atmosphere there was like being in church. There were no shenanigans going on in there on any prior visits I recall. Locally we have the Submarine Memorial at Seal Beach Naval Weapons Center. I took my son and several of his fellow scouts there as part of their requirements on the Citizenship Merit Badge for Boy Scouts a couple years ago. That memorial was very well maintained, not sure if it is by retired USN Submariner volunteers,current active duty Sailors stationed there, or some combination of the two. But unless one knows it is there, most folks don't visit. It is nearly completely overlooked by the local area population.

Smoking- well that is a bit of an evolving story. At one point, smoking on passenger airliners was widespread. Just like restaurants, bars, and other public places. Until the FAA banned it. Just as it has been banned in all government and public buildings by legislatures. I do agree that Church is not the place to light up. Sort of a respect thing. But off to the side in the back of a graveside service, I have no objection there, even if it were my own funeral. I am not a smoker, save for the occasional cigar, but I do not believe it is the governments place to say if I can or can not smoke in most places if there is no immediate safety hazard.  Just dont litter with the butts. I do not care for the anti smoking propaganda campaigns that I see daily. The "nanny state" mentality irks me to no end.  Anyways....

But back to the original point- I do think that historical artifacts and locations need to be protected from the mob. Look but do not touch needs to be the rule of the day. Or as the Boy Scouts practice,leave no trace-leave the area better than how you found it.

The right to smoke is in fact very well protected. All of the restrictions imposed are workplace law. One of our clients is an organization of airline employees that raise money for flight attendants who got cancer from their service. Us older folks will remember that a little pack of cigarettes used to be on the food tray in the plane.

Ask an airline engineer (my Dad) what the three things they would change on an aircraft, and he/she might say:

1. No smoking.

2. Turn the seats around.

3. Get rid of the windows.

But back to the thread, I find it appalling the developments that spring up just outside our national parks and monuments.

Used to get a pack of smokes in each old C-ration meal as well. 1st time I went to Europe as a Soldier on deployment we were issued ration cards to be used for items at the PX... cartons of cigarettes (and liquor) were the two primeitems on your ration card. No card- no smokes or booze. Being a non smoker meant extra cash from those used their allotment

Yes there do need to be zoning restrictions around national parks and monuments.

You'll just love this.I stumbled across this vid a while ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcwXlvb74Y

TD4438

You'll just love this.I stumbled across this vid a while ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcwXlvb74Y

Wow. How sad was that?

tigerman

TD4438:

You'll just love this.I stumbled across this vid a while ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcwXlvb74Y

 

Wow. How sad was that?

.....................deleting.............................

My wife and I were at the Pearl Harbor memorial about 9 years ago.  Everyone was quiet and respectful there.  However, before the tour started, this young lady asked me, "Excuse me, but my husband and I were wondering why there is a memorial to Ariziona in Hawaii?"

Oh well.  So it goes.

Doug

Interesting that my experience there seems to have been unique. In a way I'm glad to hear it. It was demoralizing for me and my other half. Must have been some kind of special day, but memory doesn't serve me about it. I'm thinking, maybe a boy's high school field trip; that would certainly account for it.

tigerman

I can remember years ago on a trip to China, on a tour of the Forbidden City, my dad being handed an on the spot fine for smoking where he shouldn't have been (was signposted).

Somewhere like the Arizona Memorial, where one is not likely to spend more than 20 minutes or so before the boat leaves, surely a little self-restraint couldn't be too much to ask.

Point taken Bondo. I'll zip my lip. I don't usually air my gripes so loudly, but then that might have gotten me fired from work too, barking about the stupid management. Actually it was more of joking about them.

All right now, baby it's all right now... buh boom buh boom...

Tara van DerVeer in the Basketball Hall of Fame. How bout that?

All is good at the farm.

tankboy51

My wife and I were at the Pearl Harbor memorial about 9 years ago.  Everyone was quiet and respectful there.  However, before the tour started, this young lady asked me, "Excuse me, but my husband and I were wondering why there is a memorial to Ariziona in Hawaii?"

Oh well.  So it goes.

Doug

15 years ago I visited the Arizona. I was struck by the eerie silence of the harbor as we were riding the ferry, and was deeply touched by the solemnity of the place.

2 years ago, I visited with my children and wife, now older. I was disappointed by the loudness of the roar of the ferry motor. I was shocked and angered by the rudeness of so many of the visitors who were loud, boisterous, and disrespectful of the place, the memory, and their fellow visitors.

something bad has happened in the last dozen years...