I want to build Hornblower's HMS Lydia

Dear Leelan,

I hope to be able to reach you even though this post is quite old.

My great grandfather left me a model ship, he put a tag on it which stated this: "HMS Lydia. H.Hornblower Capt. built 1974 by john bates."

This model is now 50 years old and I want to clean/fix it since it has deteriorated a bit.

I was hoping I could help you with pictures of his model. He built it competely from scratch with mainly wood carving. or atleast, thats what i think he did by looking at it.

I dont know anything of ships or The Lydia's  history and I hope you want to help/work with me on this.

I hope to hear from you soon,

Kind regards,

Folkertse

Answered my own question:

cs.finescale.com/.../130762.aspx

Are there any sources for aftermarket parts for the Lindberg 130 scale Jolly Roger/La Flore?

There are the hammock nettings to add that will be too fiddly for my 50-yr-old hands to scratchbuild.

And the eyelets that I am supposed to cut from the sprue trees and glue to the masts and spars look a bit too delicate to take any strain whatsoever. I think I will be needing metal replacements.

I searched for "aftermarket parts for Lindberg Jolly Roger kit" but I think I might have been too specific.

- Leelan

The drawing is in fact by Samuel H. Bryant, the fine artist and draftsman who did all the pictures and maps for The Hornblower Companion.  It's one of my favorite books.  Given that there was no real Lydia, this drawing is about as good a source as you're going to get.  My only quibble is that it seems to show an open stern gallery - highly unlikely for a frigate of 1808. 

Hooray! I found a plan of the Lydia in The Hornblower Companion by none other than C.S. Forester himself. I can't really do better than that can I?

- Leelan

jeastiv,

I think I got confused a bit when I was doing research. "32 gun frigate" somehow became "32 pounder gun" in my mind.

I will look for the book, Six Frigates. In the meantime, I am acquiring a pivoting vise so that when I buy the Jolly Roger/ La Fliore next week I will be ready.

- Leelan

Found several builds online:

cs.finescale.com/.../97579.aspx

cs.finescale.com/.../54646.aspx

www.modelshipgallery.com/.../df-index.html

www.modellboard.net/index.php

modelingmadness.com/.../ewaldpi.htm

I saw the kit at my LHS. I may buy it very soon. I passed it up because of that negative review. (The last link is also a bit negative. It appears the molds are showing their age.)

Now where can I get a plastic modeler's jig? Columbian model 63501 or otherwise.

- Leelan

Oops. Found that negative review: www.modelshipgallery.com/.../ms-index.html

Here is the source of a lot of what I found: www.shipmodels.info/.../viewtopic.php

- Leelan

Can't find that review. But I found this one: http://www.internetmodeler.com/artman/publish/flships/Lingberg-s-Jolly-Roger-Pirate-Ship.php

It's very positive. In fact it says that it was originally a model of the French frigate "La Flore".

It seems that several people have converted TJR into many fictional frigates including the HMS of Jack Aubrey fame and the HMS Undine of Captain Richard Bolitho.

Maybe I was too quick to accept one very negative review.

This looks much more like what I want:

I may have to buy one.

- Leelan

Can you point me towards the review of Lindberg;s Jolly Roger that you mentioned?   It is not a bad kit, quite nice if you like French frigates.  It is not accurate for a pirate ship though.  

Here is a plan of a British frigate that might be of interest.

collections.rmg.co.uk/.../82350.html

Here's another possibility - assuming you don't care if your model is...well, a bit small:  http://www.skytrex.com/523/1700th-meridian-trafalgar-british/ .

Skytrex used to make a rather large series of Nelson-era ships on 1/700 scale.  I've got the Victory in my stash; it's really a remarkable kit - fully capable of being made into a serious scale model.  I think I'd replace the brass sails with paper ones, though.

Mike posted this earlier:

Otto Von Pivka, (Navies of the Napoleonic Era, David & Charles, London, 1980, No ISBN in book), has a chart on page 172 that indicates a 5th rate of 32 guns would be:

Dimensions: 37.8 meters long on the gun deck, beam 10.6 meters, and draught 4.5 meters

Armament: 26 x 12-pounders; 6 x 6-pounders; and 6 x 24-pounder carronades

Crew: About 300 plus marines

A table I found a few years ago indicates that a "Long" 12-pounder would be 12.75 feet in length and weigh about 4870 pounds (gun and carriage).

RN frigates in the Napoleonic era did not carry 32-pounders (except perhaps as carronades) - the largest frigate gun in Von Pivka's table is a 24-pounder carried by a 4th rate of 50 guns.

Hope this helps.

Mike

I do not know where I came up with 32 pounders. I have been doing a LOT of research. Too much at a time, I guess. I must have become confused.

- Leelan

The top two images are what came up in a search for "British 36 gun frigate".

The bottom left is the Revell Ferdinand kit that I have waiting to be kitbashed.

The bottom right is a screen capture from the 1951 Gregory Peck film.

- Leelan

Do you have a good image of a RN frigate you could share? I montaged the best I had and posted it earlier.

Here it is again:

Please check again.  32 pounders were never on a frigate.  Check your research.  Constitution had 24s with 32 pound carronades....not the same thing at all.  Even horn blowers sutherland only had 24s as per Forester.RN frigates traditionally had 18s.  Read Six Frigates.   It will help

I already have the Revell Ferdinand II il Gloria because it looked most like the ship I saw in Gregory Peck's movie. It also looks a great deal like the images of frigates I have seen online. There are a few differences but I think I could accomplish them by leaving off a few sails.

It was the Bon Homme Richard that started all of this. A friend on FaceBook built that kit and it looked so good that it got me thinking about the Lydia again.

I read a review of the Jolly Roger online. The reviewer said that the kit was so bad he wouldn't even build it.

-Leelan

Assuming you are staying in plastic...try Lindbergh (I know,  I know) pirate ship Jolly Roger.   Frigate rigged with a nice sheer line and tumble home. I have built it as a RN frigate with ports open and guns run out.  Came out better than expected.   Your first five will not do. Do not know the Bon homme Richard kit but she was not a frigate.  The USS ships do not look like RN frigates at all.   If you go for a wood model,  several napoleon era frigates are available.  

I could try my hand at casting new cannon. It would be something new.

- Leelan

The downside to working with pre-manufactured accessories is the overall cost.  That's why I always buy one of each and cast as many as needed (for my own personal use of course).  It can save a BUNCH of money.

That is what dictates the scale I will build.  I always work in scales that offer lots of accessory items.  It can save a LOT of time.

So that would be 75% of 2.6cm, 1.97cm.  I wonder. Can you get ship's cannon in 150 scale? I think 96 is the most common scale offered for ship fittings.

- Leelan

The length of a long 12 pounder gun barrel from cascobal to muzzle face is more like 9' 8"

"a "Long" 12-pounder would be 12.75 feet in length"

The guns in the kit have a barrel length of 1.1cm. 12.75 feet is equal to 388.62cm. That means the gun barrels would need to be 2.6cm long. Hmmm . . .

- Leelan

Compromise would seem to be the word for my build. Since there is no perfect way to get what I want short of a complete scratch-build. I will just take the chicken #@!& that I've got and try to make chicken salad.

The gun deck is 25cm long and 6.3cm wide. To match Mike's proportions the model's deck would have to be 7cm wide. Not practical to change that. Using Mike's figures again, the length of the deck give the model a scale of 151. The width gives a scale of 168. If I average them I get a scale of nearly 160.

But, in that table I made there is a scale of 150. If I go with that then the deck is 31 feet wide. That is acceptable.

- Leelan

Dimensions: 37.8 meters long on the gun deck, beam 10.6 meters, and draught 4.5 meters

Dimensions: 124 feet long on the gun deck, beam 34.78 feet, and draught 14.76 feet.

Thanks, Mike!

Otto Von Pivka, (Navies of the Napoleonic Era, David & Charles, London, 1980, No ISBN in book), has a chart on page 172 that indicates a 5th rate of 32 guns would be:

Dimensions: 37.8 meters long on the gun deck, beam 10.6 meters, and draught 4.5 meters

Armament: 26 x 12-pounders; 6 x 6-pounders; and 6 x 24-pounder carronades

Crew: About 300 plus marines

A table I found a few years ago indicates that a "Long" 12-pounder would be 12.75 feet in length and weigh about 4870 pounds (gun and carriage).

RN frigates in the Napoleonic era did not carry 32-pounders (except perhaps as carronades) - the largest frigate gun in Von Pivka's table is a 24-pounder carried by a 4th rate of 50 guns.

Hope this helps.

Mike

I am not lazy. I have very few hours in which to indulge my hobby. I work six days a week, 9-10 hours a day with a commute of about an hour and a half one way. Semi-graveyard, if you must know. When my wife and I get home we have only a few hours to fit in supper before we have to go to bed and start over.

My one day off must often be spent doing yard work, car maintenance or what have you.

So I have to know what I can realistically do in what little free time I have. I know that if I start a wooden plank-on-frame scratch-build I might not live to finish it.

Any questions?

- Leelan