Here's something you don't see everyday

Actually the first US carrier not able to go through the Panama canal was the USS Midway commissioned in 1945. Had the Montana class battleships been built they would not have been able to use the canal either. At the time this was considered to be acceptable as the larger third lock project was underway. It apparently got cancelled after the war. The enlarged locks are only being completed now by Panama with help, I believe, from China because commercial shipping is getting too big to use the canal.

For estimation purposes 7 nautical miles are 8 statute miles.

Nautical mile = 6076.12'  and Statute mile = 5280'

They are impressive and fun to watch. The races however have been really problematic.

New Zealand lost the first race yesterday because of a dead battery pack in their on board hydraulic systems controller. And the second race was cancelled because of high winds.

Ahhhhhhhh... the differences between nautical miles and statute miles really add up on distances like that. Yes the America's Cup sailing vessels are most impressive- very high tech approaches to the age old sailing vessel concept. Nothing but Mother Nature providing propulsion there.

I was using statute miles, not nautical miles, stik. Impressive, yes, but not as impressive as that! The ship would be making about 38 knots.

These America's Cup yachts can make that speed without a reactor, just the wind, and even faster.

That would be a speed of roughly 40 knots for 24 hours... very impressive

The way I was told back in my early Navy days was that because they are so fast and have such long endurance, that CVNs could reach the Pacific from the Atlantic (and vice versa) in such a relatively short enough time that a Panama Canal transit would not really save that much time. At flank speed, a CVN can make about 1,000 miles per day.

Well, I got curious and looked up the dimensions of the Nimitz-class carriers.  The figure for the beam at the waterline that I found is 134 feet.  That confirms my earlier understanding:  they won't go through the Panama Canal.

Yes, unfortunately outside of government or military sponsored museums, plans like that often fall to fiscal realities. Donations are subject to the whim of the public and the economy.

subfixer

The only thing that I could see being salvaged for museum display would be the island structure, and it is really big!  I don't think it will happen.

Wher I used to to live featured the Museum of the American GI--a good AFV collection, but no proper, singular building.  So, they were looking.  And, they bid, and won, an auction for the island off of the original Iwo Jima (IIRC).  The island had been cut down into sizes deiverable by flatbed semi-trucks.

Their plan was to build a raised concrete foundation in the plan of the flight deck (to include suitable markings), and to raise the island upon that in its correct position.

Interestingly enough, the "scrapped" island, because it was going to be used as a museum, rather than razor blades, has to comply with the museum ship rules--so, there are limits to how long you can store the parts before construction.  If you fail to make the deadline, you have to give up the parts.

Well, MAGIC made the buy, and set up the plans just in time for it to be 2008, and the Second Depression hit.  So, still, no museum, and the island has gone to the razor blade factory.

Such is life.

That's pretty much what I said in the 4th post of this thread. I used to deactivate old nuke boats, I know the process.

I asked a person in the know (retired nuke), the Enterprise will have all the reactors defuelded, then completely removed, along with the steam piping to the heat exchange removed. A lot of big holes will be cut in her. She will sit somewhere for some years as residual low level radioactivity is allowed to decay.  Then she will be scrapped or maybe become a reef like Oriskany.

A lot of the old nuke cruiser guys went to the Prize when their ships were deactivated. Generally speaking, Enterprise nukes and submarine nukes are the only Navy nuke sailors I really had any respect for as far as their abilities and knowledge on how to really get down and dirty with reactor maintenance.

On Enterprise there was a sign that read "If it pumps, we've fixed it", there is a lot to be said for those guys trying to keep 1950s technology and machinery running.

Its good news for the CVN fleet because the training mechanism, and supply chain for the Enterprise's reactors has been shut down. The remaining nukes all have variations of the same model reactor. A friend on another board told me that he had been aboard three years ago and she was really showing her age. 

ddp59

stikpusher , the northwest passage runs thru canadian territorial waters so russia can't complain then.

Stik said "northern passage". That's a more general term

Read this:

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/Arctic_oil_and_gas/$FILE/Arctic_oil_and_gas.pdf

With 20% of the world's untapped oil and gas deposits in the Arctic Ocean, as soon as that industry has made it navigable through somewhat unintended consequences, they will be all over it with drilling operations. It's a pretty short trip south to China.

Nice shots there

CapnMac82, the iowa class is 108'2" not 188'.

As part of the new policy of the Two-Ocean-Navy, American battleships had been designed within a beam constraint of 108 feet (33 m) in order to pass through the locks of the Panama Canal. After being similarly rebuilt, the Tennessee, the California, and the West Virginia were broadened to 114 feet (35 m) wide, limiting their use in wartime to the Pacific Theater of Operations.

en.wikipedia.org/.../USS_Tennessee_(BB-43)

The lock chambers are 110 ft (33.53 m) wide by 1,050 ft (320 m) long, with a usable length of 1,000 ft (305 m).  en.wikipedia.org/.../Panama_Canal_locks

stikpusher , the northwest passage runs thru canadian territorial waters so russia can't complain then.

Since when did the US Navy have a Camel Squadron...........???????

A spokesperson for the Navy stated that she would be towed around the Cape as she is too big to fit in the Panama Canal.

Ship will not be used as a museum.  The work they have to do to remove reactors is way to damaging.

The only thing that I could see being salvaged for museum display would be the island structure, and it is really big!  I don't think it will happen.

Actually, all the US carriers will fit the present Panama Canal locks; which has been the limiting factor for US Naval capitol ships for some time now.  If memory serves, the locks are 900' x 190' x 40'  

Which is why the Iowa class were 889 x 188 x 35 or so.  Carriers are longer, but only at the flight decl, and canal-sized at the waterline.

Of course, if/when the new super-max canal opens, this will be less of a constraint.  

Also, from memory, some of out CVN are constrained by SALT or Start treaties to have to sit some specified amount of time with the engineering spaces open to the sky to verify that the reactors & fuel are fully and completely removed.   This was done to Long Beach, Texas (CGN), and several others.

This would not be conducive to being a museum ship.  That, and few state park systems are going to be entirely comfortable with something containing "reactors" even if some of us do understand how ionizing radiation works.

GMorrison

You know, Stik, within the next decade it will be easier to go around the top, headed east from the eastern seaboard. True and a key reason that China wants a blue water navy.

And here I thought it was Taiwan, and those other disputed resource rich island groups and sea areas to the south east, so that they can actually project power off of the mainland there. Since the Northern passage would be all off of Russian territory I can't see China's interests there- aside from the age old China/Russia rivalry in the east.

How appropriate. A ship pictured with a herd of camels, the "Ship of the Desert". Great pic, subfixer!

But what a shame to scrap her, considering her history. Couldn't they dock her somewhere and make it a museum?

You know, Stik, within the next decade it will be easier to go around the top, headed east from the eastern seaboard. True and a key reason that China wants a blue water navy.

They are going to tow her from newport News Virginia to Bremerton Washington for final scrapping? IIRC, isn't she too wide to fit thru the Panama Canal? So that means a trip around Cape Horn... Now that will be an epic journey.

GMorrison

I hear that the guy driving her almost hit a pyramid!

 

No, but he did take the nose off of a sphinx.

I hear that the guy driving her almost hit a pyramid!

That process should be given as much time as needed. The Russians really seem to be botching this. Maybe we can make some money decommissioning their old stuff.

Great pictures, Lee.

Well, they've got a head start on her at Newport News. What they will do there is dismantle her, remove nuclear fuel and other radioactive components and then tow her to Bremerton for scrapping and the removal of the eight reactors. I've been involved in this process for submarines and nuclear cruisers in the past; it is a long, painstaking process and will even more difficult on Enterprise. I'm glad that I am retired, it would be hard for me to participate in the necropsy and dissection of this ship. Plus, it is really hard work!

Notice that her dissection had already begun even prior to this tow from Norfolk across Hampton Roads to Newport News.