Tanker - Builder

Ahem !

   If you have a good sprue cutter you do not have to do the sandwich job on the deck to hull join . I usually remove the top rib anyway because it interferes with the scuppers and drain channels .

 

TB,

My brain is not working correctly so I think I’m missing what you are trying to convey to me. Either that or I’m over analyzing it. Thanks for checking in.

Steve

docidle

 

 

Personally, I think you should give the Mayflower another crack; however, you might want to see if you can pick up the larger Mayflower that Revell did On evilBay. It’s just an upscale version of the smaller one with all the beautiful detailing. It would give you a bit more room to work with and experiment on with all your great ideas.

Anyway, you inspired me to buy it. Overall the model is very clean! The hull looks perfect, the flash is minimal, and I even got a nice set of directions from when they spelled things out. The sails are kind of mashed, but I was not planning to use them anyway. The only issue I found was a sink-mark on one of the bulkheads. Oh, and a dead fly in one of the bags that hold the sails. I wonder if that is a 1970 fly? Maybe a university would like to study it's DNA from this now ancient past. Just a thought.

I never thought I would get an interest in this again but ... here I am. This won't be on the front burner to do, but I am excited to have snatched one of these. Thanks to you.

Oh...the person that owned it lives about 90 miles away from where I live. Maybe it's a sign. 

Thanks buddy.

Steve,

I’m so glad you got one! It’s a beautiful model that I know you can do a great job on. There is a build on the wettringer site that you should check out if you haven’t already. However, when I tried logging on, I got a 503 error message. So I’m not sure what’s going on. 

I plan on using the old original smaller Mayflower instructions with the names and great rigging instruction too. I also bought some extra stuff like Amati pumps for the deck, metal anchors and parrels. When I’m ready to build her, I plan on using Syren blocks and line. A bit expensive but well worth the cost.

Please do a WIP on your build, I would like to see all the cool stuff you plan on doing.

Steve

steve B - you got a good buy their mate , like to see you do it too .

steve D - I hope that wettringer site hasn't gone , I was a member , but I only got the 503 too

steve5

Hi Steve--

docidle

I’m so glad you got one! It’s A beautiful model that I know you can do a great job on

docidle

When I’m ready to build her, I plan on using Syren blocks and line. A bit expensive but well worth the cost.

docidle

Please do a WIP on your build, I wanot to see all the cool stuff you plan on doing.

Btw... The jury is still out if I ressurect my last one. A ton of work was put into it, and where I left off with it is surely fixable. The downside is that I had to make compromises. Such as with the deadeyes being out of scale. I can deal with that, but to be honest--I am not too happy with how the "wood look" came out. If I could do it over--I would use a lighter color as the base and weather it from there. One of the last images I posted showed the model where I thought it looked good. The thing is--the camera lightened up the color a lot. It does not look that good in 3D. I thought if it really looked like that--I'd have something. 

So, do I bother with that? Or do I start over on the larger one that offers more room for improvement, and possibly adding other enhancements. Time will tell.

Thanks, Steve!

docidle

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input! 

Dave, I agree the Catalan ship model has become expensive if and when they come up on evilBay. The other two Imai sailing ships that I lust in my heart for, are the Napoleon and the Venetian Galleass. A little too rich for my pocketbook at this time.

Rob,

I agree that this is an important model not only for Iberian ship fans but I think for all sailing ship fans. Heck I would love to see other models that are historically accurate for this period. Heck, I would love to see more sailing ship models period!

 

Hi Steve,

  I am finally getting back to "normal"  after some health issues while visiting South America and I have had time to read many of the "new" Ships Forum entries.  I came across this Thread and I have just finished reading through all your "Imai 1/50 Catalan Ship" Posts" .  Great work!

I had a chance to buy one of these kits back in 2013 but skipped it. Sorry I did.  You have made this into an exciting and challenging  model kit. I am wowed by the detail you have engendered into it. I really enjoyed  the shot of Rod Millard's  ship with yours too.  Thank you for keeping this "build" going.  Now I will start looking for a Catalan so I can duplicate Yours and Rods work... in 20 years or so.

Hi Steve (Bakster),

  I have accumulated a couple of the larger (20inch?) Mayflowers.   If you need parts....

 And yes , I am convinced, the ships section is ready for another one of your WIPs.

And also, I went back to look at Steve and Rod's Catalan models.  To good for words to describe. Wow.

Hi steve5,  

That Wettringer site is gone. I had a bunch of Links saved; all fail now.

The primary one I used was http://www.wettringer-modellbauforum.de/forum/index.php?page=Board&boardID=87&pageNo=5

I had a link saved for the Heller le Superbe, too, already translated.  Gone.

Guess I better add a spare hard drive and save the stuff I like. 

   Nino.

I'm sorry it's gone nino , those germann modeler's were damn good .

have you tried this site , dafi dwell's here .

www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

Nino

Hi Steve (Bakster),   I have accumulated a couple of the larger (20inch?) Mayflowers.   If you need parts....  And yes , I am convinced, the ships section is ready for another one of your WIPs.

Hi Jim (Nino), thanks for the spare parts offer. I probably won't need any BUT--it is good to know that I have source. That is seriously kind of you to offer! You are a good man, Charlie Brown.

We'll see about the WIP. If I do another one it will be many months down the road. Thanks for your encouragement!

I agree with all of you, the German's were some talented modelers. I'll see if I can get ahold of Dafi and see what happened. Anyway, I'm very sorry to see that site go.

Nino, thanks for the kind words, hopefully these photos won't disappoint.

Speaking of pictures, I will start the download dump and probably post more a day or two at a time.

I was hoping to get pictures of the entire process; however, I was going heads down full, tilt boogie by the time i started the rigging so there are gaps. First up are the beam ends that I added. They are missing on the Imai model but present on the original.

Enjoy,

Steve

The beam ends placed on the hull.

The eye rings made on the left and Blackened on the right. These will go in various loncations arond the ship for tie downs.

At the mast/deck point, I added wooldings to keep the shims in place.

The knights head painted with an eyebolt in place.

The knights head in place with the rail behind for tie offs.

Moving to the bow, I scratched the rail and cleat for the anchor tie offs.

The start of placing all those little nail heads in place. Here's the stern showing how they look. I"m actually happy with them...... just wait till i start the oiling....

More nail heads...

And more....

A bit of clamping was required to get the railing top to conform to the curve. There was warping sometime in the past....

love watching your build's steve , very meticulous work mate . I just wish you would post more often 

Hey Steve, it is looking great! I like how those nail heads look.Nice paint work you are doing too. Watching...

steve5

love watching your build's steve , very meticulous work mate . I just wish you would post more often 

 

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the feedback as always. On the subject of posting more ... I’ll see what I can do bud! 

I just replied to your PM, hopefully I can help you out.

Steve

Bakster

Hey Steve, it is looking great! I like how those nail heads look.Nice paint work you are doing too. Watching...

 

Thanks Steve. I think we need to have a Steve club here! Anyway, I’m glad you like the nail heads, it was a process to say the least. On one of the future posts, you’ll see that I knocked a good many of them off while oiling this bugger up! I lost count on how many of those I replaced. 

All that nice paint work got really dirtied up with the oils as you can see from the Nationals photo. But I really liked the Mahogany effect I got from the different oils colors I used, so it came out the way it was supposed to I guess.

Steve

That looks fantastic Steve. Very clean and tidy. You're right about a Steve club, I've lost count of the amount Steves there are on model forums.

docidle

Thanks Steve. I think we need to have a Steve club here

docidle

On one the future posts, you’ll see that I knocked a good many of them off while oiling this bugger up! I lost count on how many of those I replaced. 

docidle

But I really liked the Mahogany effect

Flint

That looks fantastic Steve. Very clean and tidy. You're right about a Steve club, I've lost count of the amount Steves there are on model forums.

 

Thanks Flint, I’m glad you like it so far. Keeping clean and tidy, well yes but as I said, when I start applying Artist oils, the tarps, gloves, Mineral Spirits, etc.. come out and a messy and wacky time ensues!!! I actually plan out my painting process down to a T; however, when the oils come out it becomes more like Improvisional Jazz than a Symphony. 

Heck, there are a passel of Steves just on the Finescale alone! And I agree on the forums I haunt, it does get crowded with Steve’s.

Steve (well one of them at least)

Bakster

 

 

docidle

Thanks Steve. I think we need to have a Steve club here

 

 

Lol, it's true! Well--if you want to shake things up--feel free to call me Stefan. That is my birth name. I hated using Stefan as a kid, but I have come to appreciate it now. The ladies seem to like it. No joke. One lady thought it was exotic. I thought, yeah okay, I am good with that. Lol. Or just call me Roy, Fred, Frank, Bakster, whatever.

 

 

 

docidle

On one the future posts, you’ll see that I knocked a good many of them off while oiling this bugger up! I lost count on how many of those I replaced. 

 

 

Oh, man. Isn't that just how it is. One step forward, two back.

 

 

 

docidle

But I really liked the Mahogany effect

 

 

As do I. Keep up the good work, STEVE.

 

 

 

 

Steve, Stefan, Frank, Roy, Fred,

Anytime you call me, you can call me Al.

I know what you mean about the uses of various names. Professionally, I use Stephen, my middle name and of course my last, which back when I was a kid, usually meant that I was BIG trouble, either with my folks, the Nuns or other parental units in the neighborhood Nowdays, I don’t much what care what people call me because I have definitely been called worse than Steve or Stephen.

The Mahogany coloring came about with the use of about seven oil colors and the base Acrylic colors.

Steve or Al

docidle

Steve, Stefan, Frank, Roy, Fred, Anytime you call me, you can call me Al.

LoL. Just don't call me a Sally. 

Yup, same here. The formal name came out when I was in trouble.

That is what I love about your work. 7 oil colors to create the perfect shade that you want. I am enjoying your work, Steve. Keep it up.

And now for the next installment, we have assundry bits and pieces, some quite litterally. The first pictures shows the riding bits for the anchor hawsers. I drilled holes on each to put in rings for tying off lines and the second photo shows them inserted and glued.

And here are both

Here is the knightshead for the halyard setup that is scrathbuilt. The kit does not have any way of raising or lower the yard other than brute strength, so I improvised.

The tie offs on either side of the mast are added.

Another picture of the clamping I had to do with the after railing on both sides due to warping. After adding the after rails, I had to do some infilling and such.

Even after aligning the rail there was a step which had to be dealt with.

A bit of sanding and filling and we get this

And some filling along the seam

I think I'll leave off here for the night. Next installment will be the application of the Artist Oils. Unless I find something else.

Steve

Steve,

You did beautiful job!!!

I like it very much , especialy color of your deck !!! How you did it!!! - looks very natural ,realy as old wood -exposed to sun and water...very nice!!!

By the way, Did You know, there is strong opinion(after modern reserch),that in ancient time ,lets say till the end of 16 century,there were no bits with cross piece in use as well as no belaying pins and pin rails..and all running rigging need to be secured to ... there is always a fan/ enigma for me ? how to say... ..where to secure them in such case?...

they said somewhere to ship's construction elements...such as reilings, cleats small and big,small and big staghorns, various knihtheads...etc... but need to avoid to show pins and pin rails...

I did mistake to show them on my galleon model...knew abt this( no pin rails/ pins on galleon!!! :))) too late... and now I see , You also show such staff on your model of carrak, which is much earlier than any of galleon in the time scale...

most probably , to be historic accurate, there shouldn't be belaying pins and rails demonstrated, as shown on the models in the past 20 century :))) and early...

as example - see rigging of replica Duyfken ... of cause, this is replica of the end of  the16 century vessel , but made very accurate,at least, You don't see pins and rails overthere...

ps

Could You tell which color did You use for your deck painting ,and how You reach such interesting effct of old wood on plastic??? this is my dream ...paint the same color...! :)))

kirill4

Steve, You did beautiful job!!! I like it very much , especialy color of your deck !!! How you did it!!!  

I agree with Kirill.  Share your formula. 

kirill4

Steve,

You did beautiful job!!!

I like it very much , especialy color of your deck !!! How you did it!!! - looks very natural ,realy as old wood -exposed to sun and water...very nice!!!

By the way, Did You know, there is strong opinion(after modern reserch),that in ancient time ,lets say till the end of 16 century,there were no bits with cross piece in use as well as no belaying pins and pin rails..and all running rigging need to be secured to ... there is always a fan/ enigma for me ? how to say... ..where to secure them in such case?...

they said somewhere to ship's construction elements...such as reilings, cleats small and big,small and big staghorns, various knihtheads...etc... but need to avoid to show pins and pin rails...

I did mistake to show them on my galleon model...knew abt this( no pin rails/ pins on galleon!!! :))) too late... and now I see , You also show such staff on your model of carrak, which is much earlier than any of galleon in the time scale...

most probably , to be historic accurate, there shouldn't be belaying pins and rails demonstrated, as shown on the models in the past 20 century :))) and early...

as example - see rigging of replica Duyfken ... of cause, this is replica of the end of  the16 century vessel , but made very accurate,at least, You don't see pins and rails overthere...

ps

Could You tell which color did You use for your deck painting ,and how You reach such interesting effct of old wood on plastic??? this is my dream ...paint the same color...! :)))

 

Krill,

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. 

In response to your questions and research, I have seen that pin rails and belaying pins were probably not used during this time period. I"m trying to remember if the Pastor model of the ship had any pin rails, etc... I'll have to pull out my copy and refresh my memory. I know in the recontructions of the various Santa Marias that Pastor had "cleats" for tie offs of the various lines. This were the type of "cleats" that I added to my model.

On the question of Bits, I know Pastor had them with the various ships, but again, I'm not sure if they would have been on the Matareo. However, having spent a good part of my life sailing and on ships, I have a smatering of an idea how ships works, especially sailing ships. My faulty logic went something like this... big anchors, heavy hawse lines, they needed something to tei those babies off, ergo Bits! 

It's the same faulty logic I used for the Halyard. How the heck, especially with a heavy sail, let alone a wet one, could they raise and lower the yard? Again, ergo knightshead and halyard block. 

Looking at this picture and others that you sent me last year or so of the actual model, you can see that there were no bits or pinrails etc... so... I'll let someone else tackle making an exact replica out of the Imai kit. Maybe down the road, I'll get a bee in my bonnet and redo all the rigging again and make it more authenic, but not now.

I appreciate all the insights you give me on my builds so please do not stop!

Steve

Bakster

 

 

kirill4

Steve, You did beautiful job!!! I like it very much , especialy color of your deck !!! How you did it!!!  

 

 

I agree with Kirill.  Share your formula. 

 

I took some pictures and I'll post them tomorrow with the paint colors I used, although I'll warn you, I don't make formulas, I add as I go along.

Steve

Good day Steve, 

thanks for your answer, and this nice,so high quality foto of Mataro Model! :)

I saw there is a solid beam,partly visiable in the forecastle... I saw same staff on the other karrack drwngs...and this horizontal beam looks much hevier than yours ???

Regarding devices for securing running rigging,my remarks /doubts were only abt pins and pins rails...should we show them on carrack model?, but I fully agree with You that various bits and cleats need to be shown, otherwise how to manipulate with heavy running gears?...

main sail tie - could it be set with ties and couple of tackles?, with the standing blocks secured near the mast, such arrangements probably will look more autentic for this time, than knight with halyard block ?

I read abt such tie halyard arrangemnts for early time vessels in Rolf Hoeckel book...

kirill4

Good day Steve, 

thanks for your answer, and this nice,so high quality foto of Mataro Model! :)

I saw there is a solid beam,partly visiable in the forecastle... I saw same staff on the other karrack drwngs...and this horizontal beam looks much hevier than yours ???

Regarding devices for securing running rigging,my remarks /doubts were only abt pins and pins rails...should we show them on carrack model?, but I fully agree with you that various bits and cleats need to be shown, otherwise how to manipulate with heavy running gears?...

main sail tie - could it be set with ties and couple of tackles?, with the standing blocks secured near the mast, such arrangements probably will look more autentic for this time, than knight with halyard block ?

I read abt such tie halyard arrangemnts for early time vessels in Rolf Hoeckel book...

 

Kirill,

I'm glad you liked the photo. I did see the curved beam which corresponds with Pastor's description in Columus' Ships. In hindsight I should have done the same thing. I'll have to pick up Hoeckel's book to see the tie arrangemets for future reference. As always, thanks for your insights, they are always welcomed.

Steve

As promised, but late as always, here is the magic formula for Gray decks. Hopefully it will amaze you but it's actually rather simple.

So, I start with Vallejo's Model Color Deck Tan 70986.  If you want to stop here that's cool because you really will have a good looking Gray deck. However, if you are detemined to embrace my insanity, then you've been warned.

For this model, I used the following Artist Oils from Windsor and Newton. Note, that there are two Davy's Gray. That is my mistake as I only used one. But if you are wild and crazy, no one will stop you from using two..... The other Gray I use is Payne's Gray. Titanium White and Sap Green are the other Oils Paints and no Oils were harmed during this experiment.

So, After the Deck Tan is dried and cured, use the smell test here, I apply the Payne's Gray and Davy's gray in small amounts and smear. This is where you have to be a bit artistic. Some folks use a wash by either wetting the deck with Mineral Spirits and applying the Oils to that or making a wash of the Oil in a cup. Both are cool but that is not the way I do Oils. I take them straight from the tube and use a plastic paint tray. 

Now comes the finger painting technique..... not really but it is not far off. I use Hog Hair brushes to apply the color and then start mixing them right on the deck.. At this point I only have the two Grays on and waiting 10 to 20 minutes I take an old cotton t-shirt, wrap it around my fingers and start wiping off the oil. Of course I don't take all the oils off and this also mixes the colors more.

Step back to see how it looks. Add more oils if needed or use another piece of the t-shirt and remove. You can also add some Titanium White to lighten but remember it's easier to darken than lighten paint.

Once I have the Grays the way I want them I take the Sap Green and add here and there where algae would be if this is not a British or American Man-O'-War. You can also add straight up Payne's Gray around edges to heighten the effect of use.

Unfortunately, I cannot give you a secret formula (do you like how I put that at the end)... It's really about experimenting and REALLY looking at how wood weathers under different enviroments. It's also like the Joy of Painting... make yourself some Happy Trees an hopefully you'll have some Happy Accidents.

Steve

Good day Steve,

Thank You very much , very interesting and usefull information !!!

kirill4

Good day Steve,

Thank You very much , very interesting and usefull information !!!

 

Kirill,

You are very welcome and hopefully it made sense. If you have any more questions, please feel free to direct message me.

Steve

Seal Oil ?

Well first you got to catch one . Then You give it to an Eskimo . When he's finished with it , Drain the oil out of his pot .That's the only way I know . Seriously . I recommended taking Any kind of powder ( Baby , Chalk etc.) spread it on a container full of water , Make sure the hull is balanced correctly and ballasted . Then dip it in the powdered water . 

 This will , by surface tension , allow the powder to stick to the hull establishing where the desired waterline is . In the Catalan ship , being it is a model of a votive one in a church , That is questionable .

Hi ;

 I have to chime in here . I have a dear friend ( Lady-friend ) that does stained Glass .She told me that probably around that time they probably did this .

 They made little squares of glass at a foundry for that purpose . Glass requires heat to process . Okay You have these little squares about 4" on a side .You heat them till they are softening .

Then you set them on a form .This makes the glass curve . Then you grind the edges square and taper the edges . Next you build a cage to hold say 10 to 20 of the squares

 This form is made of say black iron worked very thin and flat . With a centered edge in each square . Set the glass in and seal it in place with lead . After doing this then seal the four sides with lead in and out leaving a little area to refill the oil resevoir or replace the candles . Then mount on a post or curved hangar over the stern .

 They usually got removed during bad storms so they were roughly and cheaply made . Even the clarity of the glass would be questionable . No one really knows . Unless the ship-owner was wealthy and it was his flag-ship who would care ?