Heller Soleil Royal (WIP)

I think those racks of blocks (or, more correctly, sheaves) are right. I've seen them on quite a number of other seventeenth-century models, and I think I remember putting them on my SR those many years ago. Here's a fine example albeit an English one -  from the Naval Academy Museum:But Heller's method of attaching them is obviously silly.

I think I recall a simple system of lashing them to the gammoning, using one lashing between each pair of sheaves. I'll do a little more digging and see if I can confirm that. It might require sliding the horizontal lashing of the gammoning down a little, but that shouldn't be hard.

That horizontal, flat grating sticking out from the forecastle deck to the bowsprit (it's sometimes called the marines' walk) is, I'm pretty sure, an eighteenth-century innovation. On a seventeenth-century ship-of-the-line I think Heller's arrangement, with the grating  under the bowsprit and reachable via the ladders on the beakhead bulkhead, probably is about right.

That German model is nice (certainly better than the one I built), but the modeler didn't fix either the quarter galleries or that gaping hole in the knee of the head. Or, for that matter, the height of the waterline. I like his in-progress Victory a lot better.

Dave, you really need to make a trip to Annapolis. Tell your wife a creaky old retired university professor said so - in the unlikely event that that will do any good. Annapolis is less than an hour from Washington, where there are endless things for the whole family to do.

According to the instructions, the rack of blocks are glued to the forward upper gammoning. That of course makes absolutely no sense.

mediaharmonists.de/soleilvictory.html

Too bad the museum modelers never got that far.

There seems to be something missing that most somewhat more contemporary (to the late 17th/ early18th Century) ships had- a grating or plank from the fore deck out to the bowsprit over which the sailors could run to serve the sails. Getting fifty guys out over the rigging that Heller suggests; would be quite a hair raising affair.

Such a feature would render this all moot.

After spending a good part of the afternoon (happily) looking on line at umm, models of ships from the same period or close, very common practice seems to be to take the lines, sheets, etc. directly back from the spritsail clews etc. and tie off at the rail. That's what I would do, Dave.

Hi,

I am no expert and I don't want to add to any confusion, but I think Anderson's book used the model "Louis XV" from the Musee de la Marine in Paris as a basis (or maybe the drawings of this model in "Souvenirs de la Marine").  You can see a couple of images of this model in the "pdf documentation" of the second Ancre volume about the museum's models

ancre.fr/.../39-modeles-historiques-au-musee-de-la-marine-tome-2.html

I don't know how reliable this model is.

You are making a fine job of this model! :)

It looks to me like the ends of several of those planks on the beakhead bulkhead are going to be covered up by the cathead. You'd only have to file the edges on the lowest four or five.

Don't create unnecessary work for yourself, though. Those extravagant bow decorations (what you've built so far is the tip of the iceberg) are going to conceal a lot of structural stuff.

There also seem to be "edgeless" planks on the small portion of deck that sticks out under the beakhead bulkhead. They might not be worth fussing over; that part may well be hidden by the remaining bow structure.

That chunk of the knee right under the bowsprit probably would be one big piece of timber. Heller left off the "grain," but I question whether that would be worth fixing. It'll be barely visible on the finished model.

I'm afraid I don't remember about the rack on the gammoning. I couldn't find a reference to it in a quick look at Dr. Anderson's book; maybe it's there, but I didn't find it. As I remember (beware my memory), it handles a bunch of lines coming inboard from the spritsail topsail. Maybe a photo of the kit parts would jog my memory. (This, incidentally, is precisely the sort of detail that the Heller designers might reproduce without understanding it.)

Thanks, guys!

I didn't even consider the edges of the bulkhead...might go ahead and add some detail there.

Though I wonder if Rob was talking about the inner/upper part of the beakhead (?)...above the knee (?)...I just notice now that the  surfaces of that part are smooth all around, while the lower part (the stem, etc.) has grain and planking detail.

Also, I may be wrong, but I get the feeling Rob's "Jacquard" may have been a play on "awkward"...clever!  Or, maybe it was a rogue auto-correct!  

I have a question:  Does anyone know how the Rack Blocks are supposed to attach to the gammoning?  On the instructions it looks like they are just glued to the outside of the upper gammoning...but it seems like they would appear to just *hover* there if I just glue them on like a badge...are they supposed to be incorporated into the ropes of the gammoning somehow??  Probably not a big deal, but I just wondered...

Tonight I'll be working on those (rack blocks), and getting things ready to test/dry-fit the upper bulwarks...

Again, thanks everybody for your compliments and suggestions.  :)

Dave

I'm not sure I quite get the Jacquard reference (maybe the dreaded "computerized spelling corrector" has struck again), but I think the areas in question are the port and starboard edges of the beakhead bulkhead. (Yes,  oh omniscient I-phone, "beakhead" is one word.) I agree: unless they eventually get covered up by other parts, making grooves to represent the edges of the planks at their very ends would be a small but simple improvement.

My personal tool of choice would be a triangular or knife-edged needle file.

The knee of the head looks fine. I agree: the original probably had some carved scrollwork on it, but the omission isn't noticeable.

Ditto on the knee.

As for the ends of the boards, agree ackward but maybe an end trim piece.

Dave,

You did a beautiful job filling that hole in the knee.  I am truly enjoying your thread!

Bill

Fantastic job Dave..great mod.  One thing I've noticed and it's probably just me, but when pieces abut other pieces.....(Like on the front facing piece and the hull planking on the side) where they meet you might consider using a sharp knife and create the effect that the facing boards also have facing edges.  An unfinished edge mating a finished surface looks Jacquard.  Do you see what I mean?  With no disrespect intended.

Rob

steve5-

The best advice I can give you is practice, practice, and more practice.  :)

I suggest getting a model kit you don't care about, and use parts of it as a guinea pig testing ground.  I used the little revell Pirate Ship and practiced applying oils and rubbing them off until I got a result I was happy with.  You are using an acrylic basecoat, right?  Oil paint will ruin a basecoat made from an oil-based coat of paint.  Also, I use a brush for artist's oil paints to apply my washes...never really tried using the airbrush for that.  I dislike using my airbrush for anything that I can't clean with alcohol or water...oil-based stuff is too hard to clean out of there! 

I had some time this weekend to get some of the bow parts assembled, along with the bowsprit gammoning.  Here's a few pictures.  You can see my *filled in* knee of the head...maybe not the most elaborate fix, but at least it's there lol

Anyway, have a look.

Thanks for watching!

Dave

dave I just must be too heavy handed ., I've tried using oil washes ., but I just stuff up the base coat., after reading your last thread , do you use your air brush for weathering .,and if you ever find time to do a tutorial on how you get such a finish to your weathering I would be eternally grateful

Steve-

Thanks! I always keep a bottle of paint full-strength, and a bottle that's thinned to *airbrushing consistency*...leftovers from the basecoat spraying (I use a suction-feed airbrush, if it wasn't obvious)...when I'm detailing stuff like tiny gold details, I usually take a little bit of the full-strength and add some airbrush-strength to it to make it thin enough to brush on without being runny...not sure if I'm alone in this, but I try to rely on the surface area *EDIT* (I meant Surface Tension, not surface area!) of the paint when I'm detailing edges, and I almost *push* the paint up against the edge with the brush, and then follow the border of the detail...then, when I've reached a certain amount of *perimeter* painting, I'll go back over main body of a section and fill it in with more gold (hopefully before the *trim* begins to dry too much!)...the short answer is thin, but not too thin, or the paint can run off past the point where I want it.

HA!  The brush I'm using for the gold detail borderwork isn't actually all that small...I don't know the size off the top of my head *EDIT* (It's a Princeton Select 0 Round), but the bristles are probably 4mm in length....I use a *round* bristle brush, so it's pointy.  And get this:  It's synthetic!  I always preferred natural hair brushes (my favorite brush that I've had for many years is a Winsor & Newton Sable brush that I LOVE!..But for very fine work, I use something smaller...I only recently got this synthetic one, and at first I didn't like it, but now I really like the fine detail stuff with it...it holds its shape, the bristles don't fan apart, and it cleans really easily (probably because it's synthetic).  

Anyway, yeah, I still have to go over for touch up, despite the great brush!  BUT, not too much, just the occasional "oops, I overshot the edge there"...actually, I find that using the brush I do much less touch-up than when I tried the paint pen....it takes a little more time, but the result is more deliberate and thorough.

Seems like it's hard to find just the *right* brushes for modeling these days...my LHS doesn't have anything worth buying...I have probably 30 different hobby brushes, but I only regularly use 3 or maybe 4 of them.

John, I have indeed made a filler for the void in the knee of the head....funny, of all the pics I can find online of the SR, only 1 seems to have addressed the issue...I don't really care too much about it, but it was an easy fix...made a block out of Sculpey, baked it and the shaped it down with the dremel until it fit in there pretty well...it's a tiny gap, and I didn't want to get into carving some intricate scrollwork into a literally 2mm-3.5mm space, so I painted it black to match the stem area around it, and it looks good.  Done and done.

Also, I admit I was thinking of just leaving the side doors on the gallery section of the stern, thinking they could be some kind of partitions or screen doors...but the more I though about it, the more I realized it would be ridiculous...so I went ahead and cut the doors off with an Xacto blade...took like 3 minutes, was super easy, and now it's done.  I'm sure I won't regret it.  Though, I still have to figure out my plan for creating inner walls and floors for the gallery areas....but, I'm sure the right plan will materialize when I get there....

Meanwhile, I just finished preassembly and oil washing of the bow parts...give them a few days to dry, and then some more assembly will be in order...bowsprit goes on, fore bulkhead, stem, knee, figurehead, etc....I'll of course share some pics once I get that stuff put together.

Thanks again for your support!

Dave

Dave,

Your detail painting is flawless as usual. How much did you have to thin the Tamiya Gold to get such a smooth finish? Also, what type of brush are you using for the detail, a 20/0 or what? Dude, did you even have to touch up?!

Steve

Dave, your figurehead photo shows one of the kit's big flaws. Maybe you already know this, but I'll mention it just in case.

That big hole in the knee of the head, between the two big head knees, shouldn't be there. I'm talking about the long, fairly skinny hole that starts at the seahorse's tail and stretches back to the hull.

It's pretty clear how the Heller designers made this howler. They based their design (more or less) on the old (but not contemporary with the ship, I think) model in the Musee de Marine, in Paris. That model is nowhere near finished. If I remember right, it has no figurehead. Heller designed its own figurehead, and to my eye it's quite believable. But the old modeler hadn't added the carved detail between the head knees, either - and the Heller designers, not knowing enough about ships, apparently didn't understand that that space was not supposed to be a void.

If a real ship were built in that manner, the weight of the figurehead probably would make the whole bow collapse. There's also a big gap in the stem (the big timber to which the port and starboard hull planks are secured). There's just no way a ship would have been built like this.

The timber between the head knees undoubtedly had elaborate carved work on it. It's entirely possible that there were some small holes all the way through the carving; I wouldn't be surprised if, for instance, there were sheave holes for the fore tacks.

On the monstrosity I built thirty-plus years ago, I filled in the gap simply by sandwiching a piece of styrene sheet between the halves of the bow structure. I figured I wasn't up to the task of inventing and making the carvings. (I was right about that; I'm not at all sure I could do that job competently now.) But the gap just had to be filled.

Maybe you've already got a plan for dealing with this gaffe. But it would be a shame if, now that you've done such a fine job of fixing the quarter galleries, that equally bad mistake went uncorrected.

Speaking of quarter galleries - remember that in the middle row of windows (and maybe the lower one; I don't know) the outermost windows in the transom no longer have enclosed spaces in front of them. The window frames in those windows really need to go.

Looking great, as always. This model is going to make my old one look like a piece of .

Looks beautiful Dave. Well done! I think the color of the base now makes the colors and weathering of the hull really pop.

Steve

Agreed.  Good ol' Testors enamel gold is great paint!

Unfortunately, I can't use solvent-based paint with my oil wash...

I have found that the best option for *acrylic* paint is Tamiya.  Again, the Elmer's acrylic gold paint pen doesn't do the trick...the color isn't very bright, and it rubs off super-easy...while a paint pen is convenient, I just painted all the stern decoration with Tamiya and a brush, and it looks very good....and it didn't rub off!

Here's a couple of quick update pics...one is the Stern plate,detailed and with oil wash...secondly is some of the bow parts, dry-fitted so I can ponder my next steps, with regard to waterline masking, specific color gradations, and also...the choice of how to fill that oft-maligned gap in the knee of the head....I could just fill the gap with some putty, or I can try to find some material with an ornamental inlay that I can cannibalize and fit in there....OR, I can try my hand at a carving...not sure how ambitious I want to get, but that's what I'll be considering....

Thanks to all for looking!

Dave

Testors in the square bottle. Gilding cherubs for over 50 years. Just can't be beat

Thanks, Rob...I agree about the baseboard stain color...it kinda ties the all of the colors together, glad I made the change.

I do have to mention about the Elmer's Gold Paint Pen...the paint is delicate after drying....and it doens' stand up to the rigors of my semi-aggressive oil wash application....lots of the gold was worn off during the oil wash, and I had to reapply the gold paint to patch it up.  I am using Tamiya Gold for the big ornamentation on the stern....while it's more of a PITA to do it by hand with a brush, the color is superior and I'm sure the durability will be better....so I'm likely to use the paint pen for certain areas, but the tried and true brush-and-bottle is reliably superior.  I'd bet that if I was using a paint pen with enamel paint, it would be better....

D

Dave..looks great.  I love your staining technique...adds lots of character.

The new base stain color is spot on..too.

Rob

That's a good point, John...I bet the oil paint would *stick* better than the stain...I think the lighter color is okay for me, though...they blocks are closely matched to the color of the deck, and it works.

I also tried Arnie's trick for twisting the Syren line and then CA'ing it into a false "serve"...it also worked pretty well...though I may experiment with some other ideas, too.

Anyway, I figured I'd snap a couple of pictures.  

Here's the display base, with the new, darker *ebony* color...it's an improvement, I think. Here's the triple block for the Mainstay collar on the Bowsprit...beautiful Syren line and block: Upper Bulwarks painted, no wash ...And after oil wash, a little detailing, and the brass eyebolts installed for chainplates, etc. Kevels, freshly oil-washed...in a few days they'll be dry and I can fit them to the inside of the bulwarks. Inner bulwarks...two things to note: The vast number of injector-pin marks is mindblowing...soem of the OCD guys here would have a hayday filing and sanding all those things down! Me? I find a way to block them out of my perception! lol Secondly, this pic is meant to show the eyebolts fastened to each side of the gunports for the purpose of attaching breeching rope for the cannon...I feel a suspicion that these eyebolts should be vertically positioned, and not horizontal? If so...oops. Anyway, progress continues...next up will be detail painting of the stern, then some bow/head assembly, and then bulwarks go on...then more guns and decks, and on and on she goes! Thanks!

The problem with the color of the blocks is due to the fact that boxwood and wood stain just don't work well together. Stain works by soaking into the pores of the wood. Boxwood is so fine- and close-grained that there are scarcely any pores in it. For most practical purposes it has no grain.

Boxwood was the favored material for the old "Board Room models" of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. I don't think I've ever seen one that looked like it had been treated with stain - or anything else, other than paint.

I'm wondering whether Dave''s technique of applying oil washes might in fact work better than stain on boxwood blocks. I haven't tried it, but I see no reason why it shouldn't work. And it might give a "look" that would be consistent with the other "wood" parts of the model. Worth a try, I think.

Hi Guys-

Steve, you're right...I'm already glad I went with Syren...couldn't be happier with their products so far!

BTW, I'm glad to see you're making progress on the Catalan and Nina/Pinta builds...good stuff!

Actually, the stain I used was American Walnut...I didn't soak the blocks very long, though, so they came out only slightly darkened, which is fine. I also decided that using the very tiny .008 line for that part of the running rigging would be too thin, so it's best if I just drill out the blocks as I use them, and use the .018.

Thanks for the tip about stropping, Arnie...I'll be sure and experiment with your idea.

Speaking of stain, I took some advice and went ahead and re-stained the display base (which was a bit tricky, and a bit nerve-wracking, since the hull is still very permanently mounted to it!) to a darker color...the color was Ebony, but again, I didn't let it soak in too much, so it imparted just the right amount of darker tone....looks way better, and instead of the base looking almost identical to the lower hull color, it now acts a very good compliment to the hull as a whole...kinda ties it all together!  Very happy with it.  I'll get a good picture of the base next time I post some pics up here.

Also, I have a *plan* for the pre-rigging procedure:

There are many blocks which get called out for installation to masts, etc., during early assembly.  Since I'm not going with a full sail rigging, I won't be installing every block that's called out.  So my process is that every time I encounter an assembly step that shows any block installation, I am cataloging the step #, the block #, etc., and finding the purpose of each block later in the rigging instructions.  If it's a block/rigging step that I plan to utilize, then it gets cross-referenced through my Anderson and Mondfeld books ( to compare the kit instructions against a more reliable source) and make any necessary changes to reflect a *slightly* more authentic rig.  And if it's not a rigging step that I plan to use (bowlines, for example) then I will omit those blocks.

It's a bit busy, but at least I can be sure at each step that I'm installing fittings that I want to rig later, AND I'll be able to make any changes before it's too late.  Hoepfully.  :)

I've had a few spare hours for modeling this weekend, and I got the upper bulwarks detail-painted with all the goldwork done.  While the paint pen is a tremendous help, I found that so much of the raised decorative *gingerbread* was inconsistent in its relief...some of it was very easy to paint, but much of it wasn't sharp-edged (guess I've become spoiled by Imai's crispness!)...anyway, after a little more touch-up, it'll be ready for a trip to the garage for some oil-wash-weathering...I still have my fingers crossed that the Elmer's Paint Pen Glue will hold up against the oil paint application...not so much in terms of compatibility, but just because the Elmer's paint is not very *hardy*, and I must use a delicate touch while applying/removing the oil paint.

I'll have some visual aids for my next update.

Thanks!

Dave

As you said Dave, they are sweet! I think you'll be glad you made the change.  I agree that Chuck is a great person and his customer service is great.

When I did the Kogge and Thomas kits, I used ME deadeyes and just tossed them into a small tray of oil stain and when they were the color I wanted, took them out and placed them on a sheet of aluminum foil. They came out great, at least in my opinion.

As you know with my OCD, I reamed out the holes and stropped each block, etc....... But that is just me.

Steve

yeah... no comparison.

Looks like you stained them colonial maple.

Little trick that may save you some time/work. When I strop the block, I twist them tight at the top rather than tie them off. Tiny touch of CA and trim the excess. Nearly impossible to tell that they weren't seized.

Okay, I couldn't help but take a couple pictures of the Syren blocks!

I went ahead and hit them with some wood stain to tone the brightness down.  And I stropped one with some Syren line, just to get a better idea of how they'll look when *done*.

A couple things to mention:  after staining blocks, it's important to get the excess stain out of the holes (for obvious reasons)...also, the holes in the 4mm blocks (the most commonly used size in the kit), are very small...I was planning to use .018" line for much of the running rigging, but it won't fit through the holes. ( I have the block stropped with .018").  Instead of reaming out all the holes on the blocks, I think I'll just use the thinner .008" line for that rigging, which fits through them just fine.  We'll see if I change my mind.  I'll do some practice rigs first and see how I like it.

The first photo just shows the different types I bought, 4mm single, 6mm single, and 6mm triple (with one stropped for visual aid)....the second pic also includes a few blocks that I THINK are from Model Expo (though I bought them second-hand, so I can't be for sure)...just to use as a comparison for anyone who might want to see them side-by-side. The "ME" blocks are certainly usable, but in my opinion, when sitting side-by-side next the Syren blocks...there's a distinct difference in quality. So, anyway...there's a little update/info for any who care. Hoping to get some time this weekend to keep working on the bulwark detail painting. Thanks for tuning in! Dave

Quick update:

My Syren blocks came today....One word:  Sweet!

I'm not going to bother posting any pics of them right now, because all you have to do is go to their website to see the photos...yes, they look just as crisp and and awesome as they appear!  So glad I went with them instead of ME (sorry, model expo) or the kit-included blocks(!!)...

Yes, they're spendy, but they're better than anything I've seen.

Only thing is that they're very light natural boxwood...they'll stick out like a sore thumb if I don't do something to *weather* or otherwise darken them....Wood Stain?  Soot?  Rub them in my hand with a palm-full of garden soil?  Either way, I'll get them darkened up, and stropped, and get the bowsprit pre-rigged for installation.  I'll upload some pics of the blocks at that point, for those interested.

Just wanted to exclaim my approval!

Also, I have started painting some detail and goldwork on the bulwarks...a bit tedious, but it's so fun to see the parts begin to come to life!

Dave

No problem bud.

Got it.

Thanks a bunch!

Dave

Dave,

Sent the .pdf. Please let me know if it works out.

Steve

Steve5, it sounds like Docidle has that page, too...I think he's going to get it to me today.  Thanks, though!

But you messaged me awhile ago, asking for plans for the Black Swan....I have them saved as a PDF for you.  If you give me your email address (in a private message) I can get them to you anytime, if you still need them?

Dave