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Airfix HMS Prince & Wasa comparison

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  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, January 31, 2022 3:48 PM

Gene,

I have been incapacitated throughout 2021. My wife suffererd her cardiac aneurism the first half of the year, and I followed suit by suffering three breaks of my left leg.  First came the shattered patella (knee cap), then my tibia, then my acetabulum (ball socket of my left hip). That, too, too half the year and more. I'm still recovering. In the interim, my internet provider has stopped working. This is the only way I have of contacting you because yours, Jim's, and Tom's emails were lost with the provider.

My new address is:  bmorri6409@gmail.com

Please let Jim and Tom know as well.

Thanks!

Bill

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:56 PM

Hokey, The old ships, Prince, Wasa & Victory are all Airfix they run from 1/180 to 1/144. All are over 20" long with the bow sprit. You can find more pictures on posts by gene1 or my thread on Nina, Pinta, & Santa Maria by Revell.  I love to post pictures & have a ton of them because i have been modeling for 75 years. If you have a specific model I can tell you more about it, maybe.

                                                    Gene

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:43 PM

Bill, that is really a service record to be proud of & it is such a shame that you had to get hurt so bad teaching. My brother respected the Marines, he just had to give me & my dad a bad time. Dad fought in Belleau ? Wood in France in WW1. 

  I will start the St Louis when it walks in the door. Did you see my big dowel in the belly of the sub ? That is for mounting screws. I even put wood in my wood models to screw into. That is the first thing I will do on the St Louis. I grew up & lived in St. Louis for my first 22 years. That is not why I wanted the ship tho.

                               Gene

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by Hokey on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:47 AM

Gene,

Nice work! Can you tel us/me what kit/scale etc those are? And if you have more pics uploaded somewhere, I'd like the link to them too please.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:36 AM

Gene,

My first tour of duty was as a Hospital Corpsman serving in Viet Nam with the Third Marine Division. I will never denigrate the Marines! I served on one surface ship, then 6 submarines.  I loved serving and only retired due to my limited remaining pathways higher in the ranks.  As a Submariner and Corpsman, I was unable to get commissioned because of the criticality of my NEC, I had advanced to Senior Chief and had been selected to Master Chief before I turned it down to retire.  There was simply no more room to grow professionally.

Anyway, I cannot wait to see your work on the Saint Louis and the Revenge!  You do stellar work!

Bill

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:24 AM

I love the look of these old Sailing Ship Kits and you have done them justice. Beautiful work and the Subs look great also. May have to get myself one of those Kits.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:24 PM

I got your tracking number & super thanks. Nope that is my older brother & those are his 7 battle stars.  I was in the airforce in the late 1940's & reserves until 56. My brother didn'y really recognize the Air Force or the Marines. My dad was a WW1 marine in France. I was lucky enough to miss combat & that didn't bother me at all.  We did have some words at dinner time. 

    We were together in business for over 30 years. He was a great guy

      Gene

  

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:25 PM

Gene,

Excellent work!  May I assume that the young Sailor is you?

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 11:33 AM

  I wrote you another post on the other thread of Sreve5's. These are a few of my subs.

Thats enough for now. Looking forward to the St Louis'

                                                 Gene

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:43 AM

Gene,

Thanks for the kind words.  I have always believed the 1960s adage to, "Practice random acts of kindness."  You have brought joy to me just seeing your models. Your passion is clear.  I have my reward!

Yes, I do build submarines. I am a retired U.S. Navy Submariner, having served aboard and qualified on six submarines.  But, sailing ships are my passion.  Submarines are a close second.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:28 AM

Bill, You even apologise & give mailing info on your give away items. That is top notch service. I love dealing with you. Do you build submarines ?

     Thanks again,  Gene

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 7:42 AM

Gene,

Your Saint Louis will go out today. I was unable to send it yesterday because I got out late from work.  I will mail it this afternoon.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Sunday, October 2, 2016 7:33 PM

Bill, Thank You so much, & when it gets here I will start it right away. I do want to cover your expenses some way.  I am surprised that I like this size ship model better than the bigger Imai.  I guess you don't have to do quite the detail & they are easier , & I am on a time line. And they don't have ratlines. I did them once on a lot of ships, no more.

 I still have a couple Imai's & will probably not build them as once I got on this size I lost interest in the big ones.

    All my thanks,  Gene

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, October 2, 2016 5:52 PM

Gene,

I live around Groton, CT, the home of the submarine Navy.  I can see picturesque Long Island Sound from my house. The terrain is mildly hilly.

Anyway, I do have a PayPal account but I will not charge you for the model.  Although I do have a LHS in the town of Groton, I also have a neighbor whose husband recently passed away.  She gave me these models from his collection; she also sold seven good HECEPOB kits to me for $5.00 each.  So, I will send this kit to you for the price I spent on it . . . $0.00.  I sincerely hope that you enjoy it!

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:51 AM

Bill, Thank yoy so much. Do you have  a Paypal account? I can send some of my growing kit stash from there. I had just ordered a lot of paint for Frencn ships, including French Blue. I had ordered it for my ficticious ships.  Thanks again & where do you find all these models. You do live in or near a big town with real live hobby shops. I have to go into Asheville, but it is only a Hobby Town or one of those things.

   W live out in the boonies on the side of a mountain,but what a view.We can see about 4 or 5 miles & all we see are mountains. We have loved it for 25 years, ever since my heart sugery, when I quit my bussiness & left.

  

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, October 2, 2016 8:21 AM

Gene,

I will send it out either Monday or tuesday, depending on when I get home from work.  It's my pleasure!

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Saturday, October 1, 2016 10:38 PM

YES< YES< YES. This is the third answer I have given you Bill, but I wanted to make sure you got them. The first one I wrote from gmail where I found it & it didn't go thru.  I will write more if I find them anywhere else. Thank you so much for the offer. I think I am addicted to plastic sailing ships. I spend all my time working on them.

     Thanks ,  Gene

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, October 1, 2016 11:37 AM

Gene,

I just found two kits of the Airfix St. Louis and got them both.  Would you be interested in having one of them?

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, September 13, 2016 8:02 AM

Gene,

My LCS got them for me.  I also believe that you can get them from Squadron.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Monday, September 12, 2016 1:31 PM

Bill, I will do that, but my hobby shop in Asheville is always short on paint colors I want. I will go on ebay, do you know a seller on ebay for paint? I buy most all my models on ebay.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, September 12, 2016 7:50 AM

Gene,

Vallejo makes a good "Aged and New Wood" set that helps the builder to create great wood effects.  You should check them out.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:05 PM

Thanks Bill, I nearly built the Revenge this time, but the Victory won. I have the finshed oak base for the Revenge so it is probably next. Darn, but I am enjoying these ship kits. I am trying to figure out what else I can do to the deck, it is painted with Tamiya Deck Tan which is gray. It is not easy on these raised lines on the Airfix kits decks.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, September 11, 2016 11:11 AM

Gene,

You continue to impress!  Those are works of art!

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:32 PM

no worries gene , I'm having bit of a spell from ship's at the moment , just finished a tank over in armour , it was fun doing some different painting techniques .

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Saturday, September 10, 2016 8:33 PM

Thank you Steve, we ought to start a mutual admiration society. I just finished both the Wasa & the Prince & put them on oak bases. Here are some pictures I took this afternoon.

 

 

I had to add my new Victory, I have a bunch of finished bases & I have one for the Revenge Bill.  I look at these as their graduation pictures. I will be 86 in December & I am still having a ball building models & these plastic ships have really been fun. 

  Steve5, I am going to inundate you with those plans & riverboat pictures now,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, September 3, 2016 2:24 PM

Through the fantastic generosity and courtesy of our good friend Bill Morrison, my Prince and Sovereign of the Seas arrived yesterday. Bill, I can't thank you enough.

So now I can comment a little more intelligently on those two kits.

These two in particular are from a relatively recent issue, still with the factory plastic around them, with "Special Edition" on the boxes. Also with modern, cryptic instruction sheets, rather than the well-written (but English only) original ones that identified all the parts and explained the assembly process verbally. I think these kits date from the period (early eighties, I think) when Heller and Airfix were owned by the same consortium in France.

The Sovereign of the Seas is a much older model. That shows in the slightly less sharp "carved" details, and (maybe most obviously) in the lack of detail inside the bulwarks. But the basis for a serious scale model is certainly there.

The Prince is one of the nicest plastic sailing ships I've ever seen. The biggest problem with this particular example is severe warping in the deck piece. Airfix generally made all the decks of a sailing ship in one piece, from bow to stern, with vertical slabs of plastic forming the various deck levels. Those slabs are to be covered up with beautifully-rendered bulkhead pieces. I'm thinking it may be easier to saw all the decks apart and fit them individually. Or replace them with wood.

Oddly, there are no coamings (raised rims) around the hatches. And I'm not sure what that big, oblong shape running down the middle of the maindeck represents. (A long row of gratings? Hatch boards?) Maybe I can find photos of the Navy Board model to clear that up. Slightly later edit: I found such a photo: http://www.modelships.de/HMS_Prince_I/Science_Museum_IMG_0596.jpg . The Navy Board style of omitting planking makes it a little sketchy, but it looks to me like the space along the centerline between the capstan and the main mast bitts was open to the next deck down, with just a few beams crossing it. That replacement wood deck idea sounds better and better.)

The deadeyes, lanyards, and chain platforms, and chain plates are molded integrally with each other - one piece for each mast on each side. Airfix took a different approach to the deadeyes than usual. Each upper deadeye has a small hole drilled right through the middle. The modeler is supposed to run the shroud (produced on the "rigging loom," which went into the trash along with the vac-formed "sails") through the hole. Easy, if not particularly convincing. (The shroud is supposed to go around the upper deadeye, and the last few feet of the shroud are supposed to be seized back on the shroud itself.) Not an unreasonable compromise, given the intended purchasers and the limitations of injection molding. I've thought of several ways to make the bottoms of the shrouds look more convincing - though rigging individual deadeye lanyards on that scale is beyond my capacity. (I might have been able to do it once, but my post-middle-aged eyesight rules it out nowadays. Besides, I'm itching to build quite a few models in the years I have left.)

Airfix packaged various kinds of thread with its ships over the years. The stuff in both these kits is awful - an apparently synthetic white thread with a slick, shiny, rather wispy appearance. It's nowhere near big enough for the lower standing rigging. It's going in the trash.

The kit does indeed offer the option of mounting the topsail and topgallant yards in different positions. But the upper positions are too low. The topsail yards should be raised right up to a few feet below the topmast crosstrees, and the topgallant yards to those tiny crosstrees that support the flagpoles. Yeah, those topsails and topgallants were enormous pieces of canvas.

I don't care for Airfix's approach to lower deck guns - "dummy" barrels that plug into holes in the middle of recessed squares in the hull halves. To fix this on a three-decked ship would take an enormous amount of work. On the other hand, the port lids are beautifully done, and the recesses for the "dummies" are deeper than those of the Sovereign of the Seas kit. And it's worth noting that the old Board Room models scarcely ever have guns at all. I may end up building this kit with the gunports shut.

The molding of the windows and lanterns is exquisite. Maybe it's also worth noting that the big, 1/48 scale Board Room model of the Prince in the Science Museum shows all the glass parts as flat, black-painted pieces of wood, with gold dots to represent the intersections of the frame pieces. (It also doesn't have any guns.) In this, and several other respects, the Airfix kit is simply more detailed than the Navy Board model.

The rigging and painting instructions are pretty weak. (The originals may have been better.) But - unlike those of many other kits - the rigging diagram isn't exactly inaccurate; it's just very, very simplified. I'm sure many purchasers would be quite happy with it.

The flags are beautifully printed. But they have a feature that I've never been able to understand. Why do kit manufacturers insist on making flags with "wrinkles" drawn in perspective? This set isn't as bad as some (the most egregious example is the old Revell Santa Maria), but why do such a thing at all? It surely would be easier for the designers to draw the flags flattened out, and anybody with enough dexterity to build a model (or put on his own clothes) surely can put genuine, three-dimensional wrinkles and waves in a flag in a few seconds. One of Tilley's minor pet peeves.

Overall, it's a fine kit. It will be a beautiful model built carefully straight from the box, and with a little extra effort it can be turned into a show-stopper. Thanks again, Bill! I hope my deteriorating skills and eyesight can do it justice.

 

 

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, August 27, 2016 6:52 PM

those ship's are so good no-one will notice the ratline's missing gene ,

steve5

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Western No. Carolina
Posted by gene1 on Saturday, August 27, 2016 6:45 PM

Here are some pictures I just took of the Prince with masts & sails. I do like the half furled sais as it shows the deck detail better. I used a lot of burnt umber in the recessed areas over my sail mix color. I always am a little worried taking pictures on my high railings. We do get a lot of wind up here

I am a long way from finishing the rigging on the Prince & the Wasa still has some to do. I am noy doing all the rigging as it is too hard on these small models, & I don't like to do it anyway. Shaky hands. 

Here is that darn rigging tool, this is only about 20 or 30 minutes work, but the glue is the problem. Also getting all the threads glued. The tool is good & I am sorry it didn't work as I rigged the prince without ratlines. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
Posted by Staale S on Thursday, August 25, 2016 3:36 PM

Ah, yes, a Navy Board model in 1:192 scale. That way madness lays.

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