Trumpeter 1/35 lcm3

Keep in mind that aside from a handful of early landings, such as at Tarawa, LCMs were not used to carry Sherman tanks. LCTs were the preferred craft for that task. By the time of the Overlord landings LCMs were used for carrying elements like Engineers in the immediate trail of the assault troops in their LCA & LCVP craft.

The problem was that the LCM-3 was designed to carry a 30-ton tank--  such as the M3 Lee.   The first models  of the Sherman weighed about 33 tons, while later versions weighed in at 42+ tons. 

It seems like almost every time a company comes out with a new LCM kit, they release the LCM-3.  Trumpeter did it, in 1/35, 1/72, and 1/144 scale.  HobbyBoss did it in 1/48.  Speedline Models did an RC version in 1/16.   Only Dean's Marine led with the LCM-6, in 1/24 scale.  (Speedline did respond to customer feedback and now offers an LCM-6 as well.) 

The LCM-6 was basically a -3  with an additional six feet of length added amidships.  This increased the displacement enought to allow them to carry the Sherman. 

The LCM-6 is a much more interesting vessel-- you can build it in WW2 fit, and it was capable of carrying the Shermans.  It was also used well into the post war period, into Vietnam.  There are all sorts of conversion options for an LCM-6, such as Riverine gunboats or boats with a helicopter landing pad for the UH-1.     

Shortly after it first came out, I converted the Trumpeter kit into an RC model.   I originally outfitted it with a diecast Sherman tank, but it was really too heavy.  I am now running the model with a Dodge Weapons Carrier WC-56, but I am planning on replacing that with an M3A1 Stuart at some point.....

After doing a little more googling, and looking through some books, its interesting i do see more of these boats carrying jeeps with trailers, with howitzers on them, and even the occaisional half track! And looking up an LCM 6 with a helipad from vietnam..that may be the coolest thing ive seen...Also alot of the pictures when looking up lcm3s and shermans at tarawa...happen to be of shermans in the water ruined....

rcboater

The problem was that the LCM-3 was designed to carry a 30-ton tank--  such as the M3 Lee.   The first models  of the Sherman weighed about 33 tons, while later versions weighed in at 42+ tons. 

It seems like almost every time a company comes out with a new LCM kit, they release the LCM-3.  Trumpeter did it, in 1/35, 1/72, and 1/144 scale.  HobbyBoss did it in 1/48.  Speedline Models did an RC version in 1/16.   Only Dean's Marine led with the LCM-6, in 1/24 scale.  (Speedline did respond to customer feedback and now offers an LCM-6 as well.) 

The LCM-6 was basically a -3  with an additional six feet of length added amidships.  This increased the displacement enought to allow them to carry the Sherman. 

The LCM-6 is a much more interesting vessel-- you can build it in WW2 fit, and it was capable of carrying the Shermans.  It was also used well into the post war period, into Vietnam.  There are all sorts of conversion options for an LCM-6, such as Riverine gunboats or boats with a helicopter landing pad for the UH-1.     

Shortly after it first came out, I converted the Trumpeter kit into an RC model.   I originally outfitted it with a diecast Sherman tank, but it was really too heavy.  I am now running the model with a Dodge Weapons Carrier WC-56, but I am planning on replacing that with an M3A1 Stuart at some point.....

 

 

Also, your RC landing craft is awesome. 

Failmailer

carrying jeeps with trailers, with howitzers on them, and even the occaisional half track!

Real problem is well deck length--this is a detail which gets obessed over in the amphib world.  That and load orientation.

Mike boat is useful, with a bit of shoe-horning, you can get an entire leg infantry company in one, but it's a very tight squeeze.  Now, you can get a jeep with a 37mm gun in there, but caking it is is a pain.  Really not enough length to get a WC54 and a 57mm aboard, though.  Howitzer is pulled by a 5 ton, or a deuce-and-a-half.

Now, a useful load might be a couple WC54, nose to tail.  Tight squeeze in a -3, easy in a -6.  Half-track a good load, for those landings where half-tracks are put ashore.  Recall that a single LST can tote an entire armored battalion, with its personnel and vehicles; and only lands the once, versus the landing after landing of a Mike boat.  Loaded LCM only goes about 10 knots, and does not get a lot faster (15 knots) unloaded.

Hugely realistic load would be crates of "stuff" on pallets just filling the well deck (just not the sloped part).  On the beach, a bulldozer would be used, with a long wire rope to drag the pallets out one after the other.

Oh, and other than Wave 1 through about 5-6 would the MGs even be manned.  Pretty much, by D+0.5 they guns are under oilskin covers to keep the salt spray off.

You should, by hook or crook, set up a dude, typically at the starboard side of the ramp whe serves as the bow lookout.  On D+0 he'll wear a helmet, but it will be a dixie cup by D+1.  He will have a kapok lifejacket invariably.  The first class PO manning the helm might not have a life jacket, but the deck hands will, even the MotorMac.

Have a look here at the Omaha Beach landing plan in the 29th Division sector. LCMs landed at H+5 with Engineer Combat Teams, and then not for several hours with Navy Salvage elements. The 1st Division and 4th Division plans are nearly identical. 

So with the engineers using them, and in that diagram the salvage elements, was it because it was an easier platform to just get tools/people on for the engineers to use, vs using a larger or smaller landing craft? im just wondering what specific reason there was for using the LCM for engineers and the salvage elements. I also love that diagram, ive never seen an actual landing plan like that. 

As for what capnmac says, i can see how a howitzer and a deuce would be a little large for one of these LCM's, i like the idea of 2 WC54's nose to tail in it, would the be WC54's belonging to engineers most likely? Im also seeing alot of photos with 2 jeeps that look to be kitted out with alot of comms equipment.  

Have a look here for the composition of the Overlord engineer teams in the assault waves. From my understanding of reading this it appears that they were composed of combined Army/Navy teams with the Navy element assigned to deal with obstacles in the tidal areas, and the Army element assigned to the obstacles above the high water mark. Due to the team size, most likely the LCM was selected due to the size of the teams, and with all their associated demolition gear to be carried along. 

 https://history.army.mil/html/reference/Normandy/TS/COE/COE14.htm

Perhaps this is one of the salvage team LCMs?

Keep in mind that after the initial landings there still was all sorts of gear stowed in the holds of the APAs and AKAs that had to get to the beach. It may not be sexy like a sherman tank but still interesting stuff.

As an example (and this is from the 1960s) we had Marine engineers embarked on our APA. Their gear included 5 ton trucks and bulldozers stowed in #5 hold. That wasn't going to the beach in an LCVP so it had to go in an LCM.

Some of you may know the differences. It would seem that the difference between a LCM3 and an LCM6 was adding 6 feet to the center portion of the hull. I would think this could be done with sheet plastic. I don't think any curves are involved. In fact I saw a picture once of this having been done to a real LCM3 but the section was still in primer.

stikpusher

Perhaps this is one of the salvage team LCMs?

 

Neat!  Where did you find that pic?  That LCM is from the USS Oberon (AKA-14),  my fathers ship. She served mostly in the Med and saw action at North Africa, Sicily, Salerno, Southern France, Okinawa, and the Occupation of Japan.  The war diary has mostly small pics of the boats taking bulldozers and Dodge weapon carriers.  The few paragraphs about S France indicate that she landed the 45 Division Engineers.

EdGrune

 

 

stikpusher

Perhaps this is one of the salvage team LCMs?

 

 

 

 

Neat!  Where did you find that pic?  That LCM is from the USS Oberon (AKA-14),  my fathers ship. She served mostly in the Med and saw action at North Africa, Sicily, Salerno, Southern France, Okinawa, and the Occupation of Japan.  The war diary has mostly small pics of the boats taking bulldozers and Dodge weapon carriers.  The few paragraphs about S France indicate that she landed the 45 Division Engineers.

 

I just Googled “d-day lcm” and that was an image that popped up. My wife’s grandfather was with the 45th as an artilleryman for the whole war. He made all of their assault landings: Sicily, Salerno, Anzio, and Sothern France. 

My grandfather was 2nd wave during D-Day at Omaha combat engineers 1308th engineering Battalion Company E.  His unit oversaw construction on Red Route 1 then moved on to Bastogne and then was transfered to the pacific where he was involved in the Battle of Okinawa.

I found this bit pretty interesting from that article 

"Most assault demolition teams were jammed aboard 100-foot LCTs, each already carrying two tanks, a tankdozer, gear, and packs of explosives in addition to its own crew. When they arrived at the transport area, the teams were to transfer to fifty-foot LCMs to make the run to the beach. Because insufficient lift was available to carry the LCMs in the customary manner, such as on davits, LCTs towed them to the transport area"

The fact that the LCMs were towed to the transport area by LCT is kinda cool. 

Hi Every one,

I'm doing Trumpeters LCM 3 now. If I put a Stuart tank in it, What else would go in? Would another Stuart fit?

Thanks,

Ken

greentracker98

I'm doing Trumpeters LCM 3 now. If I put a Stuart tank in it, What else would go in? Would another Stuart fit?

A Stuart weighed 15 to 16 tons, certainly within the capacity of a LCM3. However two Stuarts would push dangerously on the displacement capacity of 33 tons.  In addition the longitudinal balance would be affected by putting that weight too far forward

Not saying that it would not happen but you would not see it in a combat loaded situation, rather perhaps in a backwater logistics situation where the boat would not be encountering surf

Ok I Understand. What else could I put in front of Stuart?  2 Jeeps? In some cases though, it seems that the tank would have to get out first though like a hot landing beach. So, wouldn't that put the Stuart too far foraward?

Thanks

Ken

A bit that I remember reading in “The Utmost Savagery” regarding a LCM/M3 during the landing at Tarawa. I am not quoting directly, but just the gist of what I remember.

A Japanese 5” dual purpose gun sited to cover the landing area held its fire  as a Mike boat approached the reef with a M3 tank onboard. When the boat dropped its ramp at the reef edge, the gun opened fire with a single shot that hit the tank and sank the boat. 

Probably still there.

Yea, it probably is still there GM I think it's saipan that there is still a sherman sitting out on a reef to this day. I guess we like to think we are a clean and tidy race, but when itt comes to wars, when there over, especially in oceans we just walk away. I forget which island it is right now with out looking it up. But The German Cruiser Prinz Eugen lies sort of upside down of one of islands in south Pacific. They took her there and she part of one the Nuclear Bomb tests

Stik That doesn't surprise me. We do it to.

Thanks Guys

As soon as I get my memory for my camera, I'll get some pics of the LCM

For the assault phase of a landing I can see only one tank in the LCM.  Craft need to drop off their load quickly and then get back out to go pick up a load and clear the way for follow on waves. Also for an assault like Pacific Atolls, the craft would need clearance to float over the reef and get reasonably close to the beach so wheeled vehicles won’t swamp. Tanks would weigh down the craft to reduce that possibility. 

Hi ;

  I think it is an okay kit . I just wish they would do an L.C.M. - 6 . Why ? Well Marine Pollution Control of Crockett Ca. used two LCM-6s converted to Oil Spill Skim Boats with a two level deckhouse . A tank in the middle of the Well Deck for skimmed oil and two Lori Brush skimmers over each side .

  The boats were under contract to Clean Bay out of Concord at the time of the Cape Mohican Oil Spill in the bay back in the nineties . Check San Francisco Chronicle for Oil Spill , Cape Mohican . There's a nice picture of Mine .The  "Squeegee " In the paper . The other boat was called the " Sponge "

 They also carried an overhead arch fitted with two booms Port annd Starboard . These were deployed to support the floating boom material whilst going forward at three knots . The oil skimmed along the floating boom , got picked up in the Loris , brought up to deck level and got deposited in the tank till it was full .

 The bow was closed and Modified with a short foredeck . The Deckhouse was built over the original helm station and the extension for a generator room . They generally rode a little higher forward , when loaded , than the R.C. model pictured . 

Failmailer

The fact that the LCMs were towed to the transport area by LCT is kinda cool.

LCT has a 900nm fuel range; the LCM only about 75.

Might seem short, but 75 miles is five 7 mile trips to the beach and back.  And plenty of fuel at the mothership to refuel.

greentracker98

that the tank would have to get out first though like a hot landing beach

Well, amphibious landings are complicated.

There is no way to embark an entire landing force in every available landing craft.  So, you schedule the landing in waves, where the LC go in, drop off, then return to reload.  This is not optional, it's required.

A 700 man Battalion Landing Team takes about 5 waves for an administrative landing, and seven for a combat landing.

If the beach is that hot, that they might be gunning from the tide line, you'd only load the one tank. 

Two reasons for that.  One is tanks operate in Platoons of five.  Two, ground troops are also organized by the Platton, but, that's about 50.  Sticking a couple squads in with a track, just because "there's room" is a good way to separate those Squads from their Platoon, which is supposed to be landed with its Company.

Recall, too, that in a combat landing, you spread the LC out, 50 to 100 yards apart, so that they cannot fall into a single MG's beaten zone.  Once the landing force advances above the high water mark and pushes the MRL/MSR out to a half-mile or mile, you can start in with admin landing, where you can send the HQ and support units--which tend to be small groups of 15, 20, 30 in as "fillers" in the LC going ashore.  Also, at that point, a full half the LC will be dedicated to dropping supplies at dedicated logistics points on the beach.

I got a surprise a while back. I was reading about this guy running back and forth picking wounded Marines on his LC at the landing of Tarawa But the Japs were firing everything they at him. They never did hit him was credited with saving 70 wounded men that day. and was awarded the Bronze Star

I think most of you will know who I'm talking about, His name was Eddie Albert. If you can't place the name think the TV show Green Acres

didn't know that about eddy albert , what a hero !!

There’s a list floating around on the internet with the old Hollywood actors and other celebrities and their service in the military. 

My two favorites for boldness are Aldo Ray, who was a UDT frogman At Okinawa and Richard Todd, who was a Para Officer who jumped in Normandy on D-Day and fought at Pegasus Bridge. 

Don Adams got malaria on The Canal, and after recovery became a stateside DI.

Eddie Albert, just goes to show. Coast Guard Auxiliary in the middle of an acting career, becomes the coxwain of an LC at Makin Island at age 35.