Disappointment with new Trumpeter 1/700 ships

TB,

I agree that worrying about model "stuff" is piddly when compared with more important issues in life.  I guarantee that I haven't been too focused on waterline vs full hull issues given the extreme problems I've faced this entire year.  I certainly would not focus on this problem if any others of my family and extended families had suffered illness or injury.

However, I am recovering, my wife has recovered, and I can focus a little more on building.  So, I raised this long-standing problem in the hobby.

Bill

Hi Nino;

     Hey it's all fun, Right? On a whim I bought a Cobi Kit of a Patrol Craft for a neighbor Child. He is bedridden but I don't remember the name of his ailment. Funny, In his scrunched little short body he flashes a big smile and says he doesn't either! He had me build it for him although he said he was afraid to drop bricks and not finish it.

      His smile says it all. I sat with him and built a Cobi F-4U-4 and a Tank too!. His face just glows when I come over. He said I am the only Grown Up friend he has! Actually the only one his parents will allow. He said when he can travel a little more this summer he'll have his Dad get a Cobi Kit that Kicks my @33! Knowing he'll try!

      P.S. He certainly has shown me that worries about model stuff is piddling compared to life! Companies will do what they do, even shoot themselves in the Bottom line trying to read the buyers.  So it's all good for me. I just scratch the bottoms and go from there. 1/700 is not my favorite scale though. It's hard on the 78 year old optical orbs.

warshipguy

...It's interesting that we builders have argued as if this were an either/or issue.  Trumpeter's previous method was to give us a choice in each kit.  Waterline modelers could simply choose not to use the lower hull while full hull modelers could use it.  There is no longer a choice. It is far, far easier to choose not to use a part than it is to scratch build a part that should have been provided in the kit.  It's too bad.

I revisited this thread hoping to see some progress. Unfortunately, there was none.  Please note that I have kept my word; I have not bought a Trumpeter kit in years.

It's interesting that we builders have argued as if this were an either/or issue.  Trumpeter's previous method was to give us a choice in each kit.  Waterline modelers could simply choose not to use the lower hull while full hull modelers could use it.  There is no longer a choice. It is far, far easier to choose not to use a part than it is to scratch build a part that should have been provided in the kit.  It's too bad.

Hi TB!.

  Yep, I was making some fun with the Cobi "kits" post.   It was mostly because of Squadron and their creating the impression of having many model ship kits in stock by listing the Cobi kits.  

  Gee, Squadron's gone, where will I get my 1/87 thru 1/60 Cobi fix?

   Let us know what you think of Cobi.  My Grandkids have not really caught on to Model building other than Star Wars Leggo's.  Maybe Cobi could catch their interest in Ships.  I'll try anything to get them off the Video-game-couch and onto their knees pushing battleships  along the rug.   I'll be glad to glue the rudders and props back on.

   Nino

Hi;Nino!

 Well, having built some of Cobi's stuff for myself. LEGO doesn't market War related( Modern ) stuff. I would say on the ship it's halfway between 1/87 and 1/160 or therin. It wouldn't be a true 1/87 either.

I've found that lower hulls can be added with a little effort, esp. at 1/700.

In fact, some of the older Pit Road kits had hopelessly shallow drafts and also benefitted from a better hull.

Trumpeter has always looked out for the waterline modellers.  Their kits always had the option of building either.  They are no longer looking out for those of us in their customer base who prefer full hull.  I have not purchased any more Trumpeter kits since they did this to us.

Bill

Gentlemen,

I bought the Academy 1/700 USS Enterprise (CV 6), which is a full hull kit, last year.  My LHS recently had the Trumpeter 1/700 USS Hornet (CV 8), which, as you probably know, has a mishappen bow.  But, I bought the Hornet, along with another Academy Enterprise.  My plan is to build the lower hull of the Academy kit, marry the upper works of the Trumpeter kit, to get a decent Hornet.  I'll use Trumpy parts for the upper works if they differ from the Academy parts.  We'll see how it works.

Bothe kits are recently priced by today's standards. Combined, they cost just about the price of more recent Trumpy kits.

By the way, Nino provided me with an extra lower hull from the Meng HMS Rodney kit.  I now have two lower hulls, one for each of the Trumpeter kits. They fit directly onto the upper Trumpeter hulls with no modifications!  I now have full hull 1/700 Nelson and Rodney models by Trumpeter (a far more detailed kit than Meng's) married to the Meng lower hull.

Bill

KhedarCaptain

Addressing to warshipguy, I am also very dissipointed. Of my collection of warship models, I allways order full hull models ( right now I have 1/700 Bismarck, washington, wisconsin and soon to come North calorina. They are all full hull and I wanted to get the texas or New york but was put to a halt when I researched the kit. 1. it was overpriced. 2. waterline hull only. This pissed me off. For a full hull model of the nelson, I recomend the Meng one. It's similar to trumpeters but has a bottom hull. I know how you feel.

 

  As regards HMS Nelson...  Warship Guy, with a tiny bit of my assistance, has found the Meng Nelson, (or in this case Rodney's), lower hull is a good match for the Trumpeter kit.  I expect he will chime in with the exact details of matching them up.

    Meng could make a market for itself just selling lower hulls to you, Bill and I.

   Nino

One more "Full Hull" model bucking the Trumpeter Trend...

Cobi  HMS Warspite. ( I wonder what scale it is??? )

   Nino

Addressing to warshipguy, I am also very dissipointed. Of my collection of warship models, I allways order full hull models ( right now I have 1/700 Bismarck, washington, wisconsin and soon to come North calorina. They are all full hull and I wanted to get the texas or New york but was put to a halt when I researched the kit. 1. it was overpriced. 2. waterline hull only. This pissed me off. For a full hull model of the nelson, I recomend the Meng one. It's similar to trumpeters but has a bottom hull. I know how you feel.

UPDATE!

 Adding  more...  see bottom of list below.

A couple of notes on that, Don. I agree, in the plastic realm. A 1/700 plastic battleship used to be $25, now a 1/700 plastic destroyer costs $ 50.

They've caught up with resin in price. Resin has become a better deal in that way.

PE is a lot less expensive for 1/700. Of course you get a fret the size of a credit card.

The thing that bothers me about recent 1:700 ship kits is the rise in prices.  Wow, they seem to be going up faster than other models.  Are these newer kits really that much better, or just a "what the traffic will bear."

     Niko's USS Helena is tops on my wish-list.  Some OEM might someday do a Plastic Brooklyn class but doubtful they will do a Helena or Saint Louis.  Usually out of stock at Freetime.

That should be an easy lower hull for me compared to doing the curves on IMAI's  Winston Churchill.

Trumpeter will never be a Dragon slayer now that they don't include half of the model ship.

   Jim.

I have PitRoad's W-209 USS Miami CL-89 about to be built. It is a nice kit, Cleveland Class.

Add Tom's light cruiser fret and it came to about $ 70. Not inexpensive but nicely cast.

I also have Dragon's 7052 USS San Juan CL-53, Atlanta Class. It has PE; add the Gators mask set for Measure 12 mod and it comes to about $ 60.

The nicest CA kit I have is Niko's USS Savannah CL-42, Brooklyn Class. Resin, has PE, came to about $80. Beautiful castings.

Alas, waterline but that's not too hard to fix.

These are all very nice kits.

Good observation on 1/700 Ship modeling.

Trumpeter has lost my money already:

   2 New Kits. (Price includes shipping.)

        Academy 1/700 Enterprise  ($34.54)

       Meng 1/700 Rodney  ($16.46 - great deal)

Next purchase will be Full-hull kits like Pit-Road's USS Cleveland W-203) or Skywave's IJN Ayanami (W-102)  or Dragon... any kit, all good.

   Nino

Model kit Distributors, are you listening?

Will be updating my WIP soon. Yes, much more difficult than cutting a bottom off.

Glad Trumpeter are finally looking after us waterline modelers as I like to see the ships as seen in water not drydock. I wish Trumpeter would do the same for all their larger scale ships, I'm sick of having to work out where to cut them down to. Some are W/L some F/H very inconsistant with their model releases.

They should come with both alternatives which would suit everyone.

Melkell

PAPER!

   YEAH!

     I have a paper printout of the USS Bogue somewhere. I remember a post by GM for a lower hull for his Tamiya kit.  I bet I could put a .015 sheet of Evergreen in my old heavy duty HP Printer and print out the Lower hull section.  Just MAYBE that thichness would conform to the proper shape.  Ah, a new challange, Plastic out of paper.

    Geeze, if we keep coming up with ideas, Trumpeter will never put LH's in the box.

        Jim.

Hi;

    I usually do the Waterline models in plastic .There are only rare examples in paper that are full hull . Most are waterline . 

 Now the plastic ones do dissapoint me .I like them really to be full hull . 

 I too search for a close fit with another bottom or in rare ( very rare ) cases I will scratch build a bottom for the ship in question .

 Thank goodness this is what I was trained for in College !      T.B.

The complaints of individuals won't mean much to a company like that, even though we can feel good about doing it.

Afraid it is going to take all the reviewers,the magazines and the distributors to put them down for the change in the way they package and market the product to get them to change back, even if it costs the modeler a couple of bucks more.

 I mention the following in the hopes a Trumpeter Rep might see.

 Rick, 

     You have a good point. But if we can add some sheet plastic for a better waterline dio, we can probably make a full hull.  However,  then we Full-hullers spend all our time building the one kit with a scratch lower hull and not buying additonal kits.  Something I believe Trumpeter left out of their marketing equation.

     It's like building a big model of the HMS Victory. There goes a full year, during which a modeler ,(except for gene1), could have built 12 or more model ships in the same period. Trumpeter should want us to build faster and buy more even quicker.  No wonder the latest models get more "stuff" included. That way we can finish a model witout recourse to After-market or scratch-build time-delays. And more of the money stays with the Model Comany too.

With my tonge, again planted very firmly in cheek...

    I blame it on the President (of the Model Companies!) How can they not supply a Lower hull. It's like building a Wall without a foundation.

     The old "Give the Customer what they want" does not apply these days. I'm sure by the time they made it we'd want somethinbg else.  But that's not the case here. I had what I wanted and they took it away.

                                 Caveat Emptor of Trumpeter.

   Nino

That was at least 4 cents worth.

A few more thoughts...
Bill says that in real life a sailor frequently sees his ship in a drydock.  I don't know about that.  Serving as an Engineering officer on three ships over nine years or so, I did have the responsibility to spend some time on the drydock floor.  And I was looking at the condtion of specific objects instead of the overall shape of the hull.  (I admit I did notice the color of red with a thought toward future modeling).  Never noticed the color of the screw(s) or shaft(s).  Crazy, huh?  Walking across the brow from the drydock to the ship I did look at the sides.  Mostly I noticed waterways, boat booms, overboard discharges and diesel exhaust stains.

And even though I do completely focus on displaying ships in a water base, I recently wanted to show a tanker on a fairly heavy roll in bad weather.  While it might have been easier to snip off part of a full hull, I was happy with the use of a waterline kit and the result from building up the "high" side with sheet plastic and trimming down the lower side.

I do recognize your pain.  If all the other models on your shef are full hull, then I guess a waterline ship is pretty odd.  I just got the Trumpeter Ark Royal and didn't even notice the lack of a full hull.  I guess it would be best if they could keep including the hull bottoms.

Rick