USS Langley: Breakthrough

I am declaring it finished- on the way to Nordiccon in a couple of minutes.  Still have some PE crew left, but ran out of time.  I can add them later.

Photos some time this weekend.

looks very good 

I finally finished the last aircraft (at least for now, until I break ones putting them on the deck.

I have begun gluing them to the deck.

That looks fantastic. You have done a great job on that.

I finished the bombers!  Here they are on the flight deck (not glued in place).  I just need to put the kit props on four of them, will have one with engine turning decal.

Also, I mentioned earlier that one of the torpedo bomers was so bad I had it in maintanence on the hanger deck.

BTW, I found, before I drove to the store, that I had a set of the punches.  Tried them on the two sheets of plastic I have- A brittle sheet cracked, a softer sheet distorted badly.  I guess I will go back to cutting them with scissors.

for a nightmare , you've turned them into a dream .

 fantastic work. I'm just glad it's you not me, I'd had small piles of smi-identifiable bits laying about. 

Beautiful work on the Aircraft.....Cheers Mark

WOW !!!!!!!!

Those look fantastic.

Oh my 

They look great

Here are the first two level bombers (Martin BM-2).These are a nightmare!  The landing gear is terrible.  Sometimes it breaks with the first bend.  It just doesn't want to stay in place when it is bent.  It has taken four days to get these two planes finished.  I have learned some tricks- two jigs, a PE bending jig fastened to the top of the block, and an assembly jig for holding the rest of the plane steady while I install the top wing.

BTW, wingspan is about one inch.

You are doing a suyper Job Don. As for working with P/E, I have been using it for over 20 Years and I still make mistakes, some minor andd some major. You just keep learning with the stuff.....Cheers mark

yer welcome    hope it helps out

DUSTER

Don

Not sure how close you are to one of their stores but Harbor Freight  has a 9 piece punch set:

  PITTSBURGH  Hollow Punch Set, 9 Pc.Punch holes with precision ground flutes and cutting edges ^$9⁹⁹

and a more pricie

LIFETIME CARBIDE Punch And Die Set, 9 Pc. $3499

 both sets include a 3/8 punch

Just a thought to help ease the process a bit.

 

Yep, I have a Harbor Freight about 20 minutes away.  I'll take a run over there tomorrow and see if I can pick up a set.

Thanks for the tip.

Don

Not sure how close you are to one of their stores but Harbor Freight  has a 9 piece punch set:

  PITTSBURGH  Hollow Punch Set, 9 Pc.Punch holes with precision ground flutes and cutting edges ^$9⁹⁹

and a more pricie

LIFETIME CARBIDE Punch And Die Set, 9 Pc. $3499

 both sets include a 3/8 punch

Just a thought to help ease the process a bit.

the Baron

 

 

missileman2000

...I want the torpedo planes with engines running and am having trouble with my turning prop decals... 

 

 

 

How would punched-out discs of thin clear plastic work, Don?  I'm thinking of something like grocery packaging, or the plastic packaging used with dress shirts.  Sanded with a fine grid, they could give the look of spinning propellers.  Or would the material be too thick to look right in that scale? 

 

Well, that is the base of it, but I then put a decal on.  I scan the kit props, than use a function called rotational blur, which blurs the edges of the blades.  Problem is that the needed diameter (3/8 in) is one I do not have a punch for, so I am having to cut them by hand with scissors, without scraping the decal.  I am now trying to cut the disks first, and then see if I can apply the decals properly centered.

Aha!

     I used to do that on the old REVELL carriers I built. I used a small art paper punch(smaller than normal Holes)and.005 plastic sheet from a notebook cover!

missileman2000

...I want the torpedo planes with engines running and am having trouble with my turning prop decals... 

How would punched-out discs of thin clear plastic work, Don?  I'm thinking of something like grocery packaging, or the plastic packaging used with dress shirts.  Sanded with a fine grid, they could give the look of spinning propellers.  Or would the material be too thick to look right in that scale? 

missileman2000

I am saving the fighters for last- they are TINY, TINY TINY!  

yeah mate and the older we get the smaller they are .

steve5

really nice work don 

 

I gave up on the TBs, and moved on to the TM2 regular bombers.  I want the torpedo planes with engines running and am having trouble with my turning prop decals.  I hope to have good decals by the time I get the level bombers done and will then do the torpedo planes.  I am saving the fighters for last- they are TINY, TINY TINY!

This is an impressive thread Don (like all of your normally). 

It's aldo a fun and informative read. Looking forward to your next update.

Ben / DRUMS01

really nice work don 

I started to put the star decals on the wings of a couple of the bombers I am building, and discovered something about the decal sheet folks building this kit should be aware of.  The decal film covers the whole decal sheet, like homemade decals.  Didn't notice that until I had cut a strip of two stars and had it in the water.  I was able to take them out and trim them, but it was a lot of work.  Cutting around those tiny decals to trim them is no easy task either.  Good news is that the film is thin and very transparent.

Started the planes with the F4B.  It is tiny!  I stopped that and decided to come up the learning curve with the Torpedo bomber, the largest of the planes.  It has a wierd origami style LG, two pieces, with hard to understand diagonal folding.  Have lost two PE pieces (one aircraft worth).  Oh well, the missing bomber will have already been launched

That looks amazing Don. You are doing a great job. Keep up the fantastic work.

WOW Don great job.  The stripes look just right.

Back to work on the Langley.  Too much PE- had to take a month to do easier things.  Today I finally took a deep breath and got to work on the yellow markings on the flight deck.  Decals don't work on the rough wood.  I figured best bet was to mask off and drybrush.  But it was a one-shop thing- if they didn't look right there was little chance of correcting it.  It worked!

Remaing work is to build the aircraft and place them on the deck, and add figures around planes, and in the safety nets.

Each airplane is a biplane with lots of PE rigging.  These will not go fast- a dozen to do!

I got all the boats and other stuff back on, that I knocked off putting the flight deck on.

Also began putting down nets.  That is going well once I figured out the placement.  The drawing on the instruction is not very clear.  Once you start from the bow, you just repeat pieces "1" you are close to stern, and hope the pieces for that match up with the strings of 1s

Well!

  I have to say, ya Kicked Butt on this !! I have been sceptical ot wood model decks. Maybe I will try one on my Partially Built(by someone else!) "Tirpitz" to cover the glue flaws. She's a mild "Glue Bomb",  But examining her, this is her second go at restoration I Believe. Used ship ? You Betchya!

I just applied the Trumpeter supplied wooden deck on their USS Des Moines kit and it went down rock solid. In some places the fit was perfect but in others it was slightly off and required some slight trimming but I'm more than happy with the outcome. 

I've been enjoying your post on the Langley and think I'll order one soon. Great job.

Got the deck on.  Wasn't too bad a task, and it really sticks.

There are little rectangles cut out of the deck that I suppose represent some sort of structure support.  However, that looks like it leaves holes the thickness of the wood in depth.  I don't believe they would leave holes that big for the planes to land over.  The deck is fifteen mil, so I am painting strips of syrene ship color and will be cutting  them to size to put in these holes.

I feel your pain on the deck, Don, but in my case it was the awful Revell kit of the USS Enterprise. Everything fit great during dry fitting and I thought I was home free ... then I applied the glue, and everything went sideways, simultaneously, in half a dozen spots.

Suffice it to say, there was a lot of Evergreen strip used to camouflage the many gaps.

You pulled attaching the deck off with way less drama than I feared, well done and it looks great. After all that PE work you decided to add a wood deck too?! You really are ticking off all my least favorite things to do on a model ship build - Add a boat load of rigging after the deck for the hat trick :)

Any plan for any aircraft yet? A group of bi-planes will top her off nicely, though plenty off folk leave them out.

Amazing workmanship!

Well, I got it.  Deck is all the way down, and glued.  One big thing I found is that some of the boats are longer than the platform.  I had them misplaced by a few mils, and had to take them off, to reinstall later.

I will be putting on the wood deck soon.  This deck is from the Trumpeter add-on kit.  I have only installed one wood deck so far on a plastic kit.  It was from Pontos, and the adhesive was pretty good.  Has anyone here installed a deck from Trumpeter?  If so, how good was the adhesive?  I did notice that the yellow markings around the elevator are not printed on the deck.  I hope there is a decal for that.

that look's like a fun exercise don , I feel for you mate , half a millimeter here and there makes a huge difference , but I'm sure you'll beat it .

I've started installing the deck.  This will take a bit more work.  The girders come down through some of the upper decks and the rectangular openings for the girders are a very close fit!  On several I have had to widen the rectangle.  I have the rear part of the deck within a quarter inch of fitting, and the bow probably will fit if I could get the rear down.  Problem is now, I have a girder stuck in one of those areas- I can't get it back up to work on the opening.  I am using a scalpel to go in the joint and slowly cut away the deck plastic.

Here is hopefully the last hangup.

I have bent the girder rearward as far as it will go, so I have to increase the space to the front : (

missileman2000

  Also, I will have to repaint some of them, as my set has no officers!

Oh? That mean the ship will finally run smoothly? (us old EM's never give up tweeking the brass)   

Thought I was ready to mount the flight deck, but while looking at the box art, realized I needed figures on lower decks as well as flight decks.  Also, I will have to repaint some of them, as my set has no officers!

that looks great don , looking forward to more .

You are doing great.Looks fantastic.

Don, Looks outstanding. Despite the errant PE it looks fine. Besides if someone makes a big deal about it, tell them “OK YOU fix it". 

I did it!  I got the cranes installed.  Turned out they were too wide by a slight amount, so I had to cut a small piece out of the crosswise crane and glued them back together.  Rails are no longer parallel.  But you won't be able to see them except from direct from the side, so I think it will be okay.

Trying to decide whether to put safety nets on before installing deck, or afterwards.  I am leaning towards doing it afterwards.  In either case it will be a bear of a job installing the deck.  The bottoms of the girders do not line up exactly with the mounting areas.  I taped those areas with masking tape so there is a good gluing surface.  I made a little tool that just fits inside the girders so I can bend them slightly without damaging them (I hope!).

She really is coming along nicely.

You must be well past the halfway mark now.

Coming along very nicely. Good job.

Grabbed a couple of shots of bridge attached to deck.  A little bit left to finish deck, but it is hard to hold deck without wrecking some detail. Easier with assembly fixed to the model.

Finally finished the bridge.  Actually it is painted and installed by now, but forgot to shot it before starting this post.

I had also started two cranes that hang between the upright girders under the flight deck.  Each crane is two beams fastened to the girders; each an L beam with gussets on the inside, and a moving cross beam on wheels.  I had lost one of the beams for the forward (longer) crane, so had to scratch one.  Fortunately I had the styrene on hand to do so.  Using a scrap section of angle, and a thin, narrow strip of styrene cut into fourteen right triangles, I went to work.  Result is shown below opposite the good opposite beam.

Both cranes are now ready for paint and install.  I am not looking forward to installing them to the inside of the girderwork.  :-(

DUSTER

Don In case you haven't seen this, it shows "your" net hangers in action.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/history-naval-today366566#:~:text=Today%20in%20U.S.%20Naval%20History%20%2D%20April%208 

Also,  April 8 is the anniversary  (1925) of the first night landing on the Langly that took place off the coast of Saqn Diego Cal.  Which is sorta my hometown. 

 

 

Steve, thanks much.  I had not seen that shot before, and does clarify that area.  I wonder if the LSO stood on the nets.  I don't see any other place for him to stand other than on deck.  I love to see a shot of the LSO in action on the Langley.

Don In case you haven't seen this, it shows "your" net hangers in action.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/history-naval-today366566#:~:text=Today%20in%20U.S.%20Naval%20History%20%2D%20April%208 

Also,  April 8 is the anniversary  (1925) of the first night landing on the Langly that took place off the coast of Saqn Diego Cal.  Which is sorta my hometown. 

I am now working on the bridge.  I had started it long ago before I started the flight deck.  It was terribly frustrating.  The photo etch was a nightmare, and the posts that hold it up from the main deck were frustrationg and fragile.  I put it aside for awhile.  I am back at it again.  Fortunatly I have lots of spare railings and stairs.  I have replaced all the posts with 20 mil brass rod.  I put what is hopefully the final coat of paint yesterday and hope to mount it today.

Wow Don,

I had not realized that the aft susperstructure was as complex as it looks without the flightdeck over it.

You fit issues sound on par for Trumpeter.  Just about every ship kit I built required a lot of test fitting, measuring, and cutting.  Probably why I like them, I get to do more modeling then just glueing pieces together.  

Been troubled by two boat platforms for several weeks now.  The platforms are made up with the platform itself, plus two sets of legs.  Problem is, the longer set is too long, making the platform mount with an unpleasing tilt.  The legs are very fragile and I destroyed several of the legs, and had to make new ones from styrene strips.  While I was hastling with that, I started applying a black wash to guns and machinery on the deck structures.

Very nice Don.  Thanks for the detailed write up! 

Wm

Don

What an incredible job so far.  I can only imagine how much “sweat equity” you have gotten on this job.

Sorry also, to hear about you “naming rights” being “rejected” , guess regardless and no matter how long you have been around if the ‘puter program forgets you, you are truly forgotten.

Looking forward to you next instalment, it has been a humdinger of a ride so far.

The aft deck structures are now ready to install on the hull now.  There was a fair amount of PE stuff- railings and ladders- but they went on fairly well.  Much easier than the flight deck PE.

I have always had a bit of trouble getting railing bends right at 90 degrees.  I had been bending the piece against a little square, but the brass always springs back a bit.  I decided to make a little block with a slightly larger angle to provide for the spring back.  I started with 8 degrees- too much.  I then reduced it to about 2 degrees, as best I can measure.  That did it.  Block is a piece of mdf about quarter inch square and about an inch long.

I also had troubles getting railings bent right.  I measured the width of the tread area as a little over a sixteenth of an inch- say 70 mils.  I found a couple of brass strips I had that, glued together measured about that.  I glued a piece of basswood to it to make a handle.  BTW, my bending tool is a large X-acto handle with that 45 degree blade (forget the number).

Okay, here are recent pics of rear superstructure.  This was a real bear at first.  The second deck level was supposed to set down over a boss in the first level, the boss being a narrow raised feature the completely encircled the inside of the second deck.  I just could not get it to fit!  I then measured both the boss and the inside of the upper deck with a good digital caliper.  Lo and behold, the outside of the raised boss was wider and longer than the inside diminsions of the second deck!  I had to grind/sand that boss away on three sides.  Here is a shot of the two decks glued together now.

There are photo etch pieces (girders and railings) that go from the second deck, past the first level to the main deck.  It was hard gluing these in place and getting the vertical.  I made a simple little jig.  Here is the jig in use helping the PE place stay properly in place while the gel (slow curing) CA sets up.

Here is a shot of the jig.  It is a rectange of 1/8 basswood, with two styrene angle strips , glued to the bottom along the long sides.  I sandwiched a piece of the PE between the block and the vertical portion of the angle so it left a groove the width of the PE.  I then place the PEpiece in that groove and put slow set CA along the edge of the upper deck.  I then push the jig against the deck and hold it for several seconds to hold pressure on the joint and maintail the PE piece vertical.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

missileman2000

Guys, had trouble posting for the last three weeks or so.  Customer service could not fix problems with account, so was forced to create my third account.  I'm the old Don S and rocketman 2000.  I was able to use old icon, however.  Found I had to finish the bridge and rear deck structures, however.  The later are just about done- pictures soon.

 

 

That's crazy,nothing like loosing your identity twice !!!

Hi Guys and Ladies.

       A tip here, I believe is appropriate, Like many I have acquired a few Hemostats(Almost Three dozen to be honest) I had very understanding Doctors! Anyway for the Banded tension ones, I did this. I ground the teeth off the Cross-Locks! Then in the same area on the outside of the handles, I ground very fine, very smooth notches.

      Why? Well, rubber bands have a tendency to "Walk" if you arent careful. I use, in their place, Natural rubber " O " rings, and regular " O " rings if the " naturals" are not available. The only  reason any needed replacing was their environment for a while. In a Tool-Box in the Basement Storage Area? of my fifth wheel as we traveled.

     Doing this the way I did, made sure the "Hemos" would NOT accidentally lock! Retaining the base of the Cross-Lock area kept the handles from twisting or bending when pressure was applied.

Hi Don;

       What I did a while back may help you in the category of not filling holes that Need! to stay open. I had some Catapults in 1/350 that had some open mesh catwalks. Yeah, very Fine! So, I mixed the right color paint with the right amount or thinner and then Dry brushed them. Four times to be exact. The first time with Enamel. The rest with super thinned Acrylic in the same color.

       The Enamel acted as the primer. Oh! Before putting these parts on, I pickled them in White Vinegar overnite. Rinsed well and Air dryed. This microscopically etched the brass surface to accept paint of any kind!

Guys, had trouble posting for the last three weeks or so.  Customer service could not fix problems with account, so was forced to create my third account.  I'm the old Don S and rocketman 2000.  I was able to use old icon, however.  Found I had to finish the bridge and rear deck structures, however.  The later are just about done- pictures soon.

I've had my fair share of projects where I performed the old 2 steps forward, 1 step back dance - some of them ended up being my favorites!

I know it's maddening - but makes for good reading!

The wire supports worked well.  The net supports are all done, and I have been doing repairs to the girders I mangled.  I have a coat of paint on it, and am almost ready to get back to work on the hull and put on structures that support flight deck.

Unfortunately the top of the deck was not fastened as well to the plank I had it sitting on and some of the deck supports ended up sitting above the surface of the flight deck.  I am grinding off those ends.  Using my Dremel Stylus 2000 for that- wonderful tool!

Now THAT's clever.

Rather than locking the instrument, you let the rubber band maintain the tension. Different sized rubber bands can provide a lighter or increased tension as needed so you can avoid too much 'crush'. Then, you can either manually open them or, if the tension is light enough, you can simply pull it away.

Luvspinball

Just don't lock them.  Let the rubber band do the work of holding tension.  Trick there is finding the right size rubber band!

I have lots of "donated" hemostats I have collected over the years.  Very handy tools.

Bob

 

Ah, I get it now.

I only have one.  Don't use it a lot, so it lasts fine.

Just don't lock them.  Let the rubber band do the work of holding tension.  Trick there is finding the right size rubber band!

I have lots of "donated" hemostats I have collected over the years.  Very handy tools.

Bob

HooYah Deep Sea

Another little trick is to use hemostats and with the tension applied with a small rubber band rather than the locking tangs. Still holds securely but releases a lot easier; no side twisting. And, they also come in SO MANY different styles.

 

I need a very clean release to not turn the boom.  That is why I had been using regular tweezers.  It took a bit of practice with the cross locks but it usually works now.  How do you get a clean release with the band and hemostat?

HooYah Deep Sea

Another little trick is to use hemostats and with the tension applied with a small rubber band rather than the locking tangs. Still holds securely but releases a lot easier; no side twisting. And, they also come in SO MANY different styles.

 

Bill

Another little trick is to use hemostats and with the tension applied with a small rubber band rather than the locking tangs. Still holds securely but releases a lot easier; no side twisting. And, they also come in SO MANY different styles.

Yep, locking tweezers are ESSENTIAL with both PE and any scale smaller than 1/72.

I have multiples with both the ridged gripping tips and smooth tips so they won't mar a finish.

Glad to hear you finally got it licked!

rocketman2000

I am learning to use a crossed self lock tweezer- that has reduced the number of drops.

My absolute favorite, indispensable modeling tool. I've got several pairs w/ different tip shapes and degrees of grip.

Wow Don,impressive,those are some details that I wouldn't even try,great work.

For almost a month now I have been traumatized trying to attach the safety net brackets to the underside of the flight deck.  The brackets hang down with a boom sticking out.  With the deck still inverted they look like towers with a boom sticking out, like an el resting on the end of the bottom leg so the long side of the L sticks out parallel to the bottom of the deck.

The problem was keeping the CG of the mount over a tiny o.0001 square inch base tab long enouh for the CA glue to set.  Further, this must be done without touching any of the exist already mounted booms which had a cross-section of 6 mil by 8 mil.  The semi hard brass, once bent, is almost impossible to bend back straight.

My new solution is to do away with the PE supports entirely, and replace then with 20 mil brass rod bent into an L-shape.  I made a simple jig to make and trim each piece in less than a minute.  Last go of it I bent four pieces, and then got them mounted in five minutes.

The first four pieces on the right are the kit PE.  All the pieces to the right are the twenty mil Ls.  I drilled holes for the short part of the L. It will stand by itself long enough for the CA gel to set.  Still hard for my eldery hands to hold the tweezers still enough- I usually drop each piece about three times putting it in, but that is still much faster than the PE pieces.  I am learning to use a crossed self lock tweezer- that has reduced the number of drops.

My shop cleanup is just about complete, so the Langley is going back on the bench.  First part that went on bench was the base I had been working on, in order to fit the nameplate.

Here is the closeup of the nameplate, a decal applied over a polished rectangle of sheet brass.

Next, the flight deck went back on the bench.  When I thought I was all done on the deck and structure PE, I had forgot the support pieces that support the nets and the nets themselves.  I hope I can paint the nets without filling in the fine openings.

Strongeagle

 

 

 

rocketman2000

Or- are they just stored willy-nilly wherever they can find a place? I know not many of you would have served on her, but does anyone know where they stowed those masts?

 

I don't know where they stowed the masts, however I ran across a website (I've attached the link below) that reports the provisions made to convert the Jupiter to the Langley.  Among other requirements were "two removable masts fitted to the flight deck centerline."  Because the masts were an enumerated requirement, I suspect that there was some space actually engineered into the conversion to stow the masts.  Like yourself, I'm guessing it was somewhere in the hangar deck. My experience, in serving on two aircraft carriers, is that everthing gets put somewhere on the hangar deck.  You have a worthy project ahead of you, good luck.

http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv01.htm

 

Thank you very much.  I downloaded that very informative page.

BTW, shop cleanup is just about done.  Hope to have Langley on bench by Saturday.  Turns out I still have quite a bit of PE to do on the deck than I realized.  I think that time spent on cleanup was a good break to recover from previous PE effort.

rocketman2000

Or- are they just stored willy-nilly wherever they can find a place? I know not many of you would have served on her, but does anyone know where they stowed those masts?

http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/cv01.htm

You're a braver man than me Don,  doing that PE.  

Amazing job. 

That's a lot of metal Don,really looks great !!!

Thank, skiphas.  Glad you posted.  I will check this out and see if there is any way I can correct this, since I have finished the girder work.

Have not worked on the Langley for several weeks.  Took some time off for a few weeks to modify my workbench, and clean up the shop, which is a major job.

JoeSMG

Don that looks awesome. It's almost sad but once you turn the deck rightside up and attach it to the hull 70% of you hard work will be extremely difficult to see, imperfections and masterful strokes alike. Are you planing to paint everything up and add all lower deck details before that? Can't imagin doing it afterwards is... doable.

Also attaching all those connecting points to the hull could be a bear! Any plans for that assault? I'm thinking no glue until it sits to your satisfaction and then apply glue in place using capillary action, pins, toothpicks, lots of patience and a little luck.

 

I'll put it on tall support columns

I do realize attaching all those support columns to the main deck will be a tough job, but I still think it will be easier than gluing just the support structure to the deck the way the plans show.  Attaching it to the flight deck as I am doing will hopefully add to stiffness.  I think the PE girderwork will be very floppy, and bend like crazy.

BTW, learned a trick for working with small pieces of PE.  I had a hard time putting on small pieces without getting small amounts of glue on tweezers.  I now rub beeswax on the tips of the pliers periodically.  Wax prevents tweezers sticking to the piece even if glue gets on the tweezers.

Don that looks awesome. It's almost sad but once you turn the deck rightside up and attach it to the hull 70% of you hard work will be extremely difficult to see, imperfections and masterful strokes alike. Are you planing to paint everything up and add all lower deck details before that? Can't imagin doing it afterwards is... doable.

Also attaching all those connecting points to the hull could be a bear! Any plans for that assault? I'm thinking no glue until it sits to your satisfaction and then apply glue in place using capillary action, pins, toothpicks, lots of patience and a little luck.

TheMongoose

Even from a distance you can tell that girder system looks super well done!

 

And only from a distance

lovely work don , I have this kit in my stash , your build will be invaluable to me mate .

Even from a distance you can tell that girder system looks super well done!

I have now finished the main PE girders for the flight deck support structure.  I am discarding the PE web structure between the girder uprights, and replacing them with the kit's styrene webs.  They don't look that bad, and sure are easier to put in place.  They are more rigid and stay in a plane

I have made some homemade tools that are invaluable for folding and gluing the main square girders.  The wood L-shaped piece is sized to the ID of the girders.  After sanding smooth I rubbed beeswax on it so any glue that gets on it will not stick.  The other gadget glued to a board is one of the plastic kit girders with a piece of brass sheet glued to each side.  I bent the tops out a bit to create a slight fishmouth to make inserting the PE girders.  This piece squares up the cross section, and holds it while I glue the hinge seams.

This PE work is very stressing, so I have to take a lot of breaks.  During these breaks I have now began work on superstructure.

jeaton01

Don, I have some success with using a very thick CA, a small amount has holding power because of the hign viscosity, and it won't set until you hit it with accelerator.

 

Yep, I use the gel stuff for most of the joints.  It does not stick those problem panels, however.  I assume the thickness and line widths are to blame.  The beams are 6 x 16 mill!

This seems to be confirmed when I started to remove the old pieces to replace them with the plastic ones.  I had been worried about damaging the sections I wanted to keep, the majority of the PE.  No problem- those mangled pieces  pulled right off with a slight tug!

Don, I have some success with using a very thick CA, a small amount has holding power because of the hign viscosity, and it won't set until you hit it with accelerator.

Don, touch base with ModelCrazy. He did the Akagi this year and it had similar girder work. Bet he can give you some direct insight on how he did it.

Luvspinball

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

 

 

I do use the uv glue for other tasks, but for the PE in this set I have a tough time holding the parts in perfect position.  I need a glue that holds the piece while I release it.  Even a very slight twitch launches these super light pieces.  I was figuring that they may weigh less than a milligram, but I do not have a scale with that kind of sensitivity.

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

rocketman2000

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

...

Substituting the original kit pieces on failed PE (if they even existed) is exactly what I did. I too used a pin head to apply the least amount of CA possible - if it sets and aligns right, I may add a bit more CA (again with a pin head) for strength. I think your Langley will come out great, those pictures look excellent aside from the problematic sections and the replacements will look fine once painted.

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

This the equivalent of these PE pieces.  They look like substantial battle damage!  I hope I can cut them off, or debond them without destroying the rest of the structure.

I am making progress however.  The rest of the PE is coming along- the rectangular structure is okay, the pieces are all rectangles with no little beams sticking out.

As you can see, I have glued in the elevator in the UP position, as I will be depicting the planes in flight operations.

I know well the pain of PE, I've only done one model that was heavy on PE and after I finished it I was pretty sure I'd never do another.

Seemed like I could hold the CAed PE against the spot I wanted it for a minute and it would not take. But let it touch anything else for a fraction of a second and I'd end up ruining it trying to pry it apart, frustrating stuff. My go to fail was ruining the PE because it stuck to the tweasers, that happened a lot.

I'd say about 20% of the PE included never made it on the model...

I had the most success when using the least amount of CA possible. I did get a bit better with practice but I've never found working with PE enjoyable.

Perhaps compromise and use more of the kit where the PE is a real bear.

Hope it all works out!

rocketman2000

 

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint...

Would one of those "third hand" tools like this one help?

https://www.micromark.com/Triple-Grip-Third-Hand

(Not an advertisement or endorsement of MicroMark, it was just the most convenient link I could find at the time. I have one of these, that I bought at a show.)

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering?

 

Bill

 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint.

Other concern is that pieces are so small and light and have zilch thermal capacity I am not sure I could solder one joint without loosening a bunch of others.

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

Have you considered soldering?

Bill

I'm a complete amature with PE, most ends up flying off into space.  But perhaps something like this might help

I am at a standstill, going nowhere.  There are PE patterns I am trying to glue in place, and going nowhere.  Here is a picture of one of these pieces.  The sheet is only .006, and the line widths are .016.  The temper is like semi hard or semi soft, sort of in-between.

Keeping the piece flat is almost impossible.  I have tried keeping the piece on the clear plastic backing while I glue it on.  Then trying to remove the backing after the glue sets distorts the piece terribly.  In fact the lightest touch bends, twists or curls parts.  Have you ever tried to shape a piece of Christmas tinsel foil?

The latest problem I am facing is when I do manage to get it in place the CA glue I am using will not adhere!  My theory is that in doing the handling to get it flat and in place I cannot do it all with tweezers.  This stuff is so thin that tweezers do not hold all that well, in spite of cleaning and resurfacing the ends frequently.  I think I am getting skin oil on the pieces, which is limiting the stickiness of the glue.  I am going to try using gloves- will test whether cotton or plastic will be best.  I am afraid cotton may stick to any glue spots and trying to tear it away will ruin the piece (no extras given).  I will also have a small bowl of lacquer thinner nearby and will soak each piece before applying.

EdGrune

 

 

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

 

 

 

I believe it was Loose Cannon

 

I find the PE work the most difficult I have ever done.  I shudder to thick of doing it half that size.  I would not use pe for girder work- stay with plastic girders in 1:700!

Really nice work, Don.

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

I believe it was Loose Cannon

I believe the instructions for the Trumpeter photo-etch optional package.  Each bay of the girder structure consists of two longitudinal girders between two transverse structures.  Many bays also contain one or two smaller transverse beams going between the longitudinal girders within the bay.  The PE instructions show fastening these little beams to the longitudinal  girders as the first step in doing that bay.

But, some bays also have some external additional sections  (four per bay) that are installed later to the inside and outside of the longitudinal girders.  And these cannot be installed to the inside face of those girders if these transverse girders are already installed!  I find I must build up the bay and put these pieces in first- do not install those transverse beams within the bay until after those longitudinal supports are applied.  These are the supports like C-5, C-9, etc.

ddp59

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

 

Problem is, that angle is so small I do not have a good way to measure it accurately, especially with the junk on the deck.  It certainly looks appropriate.

I have scrapped the jig I was making- I found a better way to make sure the grid work matches up to the right alignment.  I taped the flight deck down to a scrap of wood, with the bottom side showing.  The molding of the deck clearly shows the right position where the girders go, with good precision.  I am gluing each girder or girder assembly to the spot where it goes.  There is lots of glue area on the brasswork where it attaches to the flight deck, so the assembly is getting strong (I also glue each girder to other ones).

The structure so far is looking pretty good.  The white streaks is where I used a bit too much accelerator.

rocketman2000

It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all),

I would suggest you rethink that.

Bill

Got the deck painted, and now doing PE (from the kit, not the aftermarket stuff yet) on foredeck and quarterdeck.

I have some concerns about the optional PE (the flight deck support girders).  It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all), some at critical angles.  I am not confident of getting those angles correct when I glue those girders together.

I am making a jig with a piece of white cardboard and scrap wood.  I have measured the locations where that structure glues to main deck, and transferred marks to that jig.  But I am not confident of my transfer of measurements alone.  I am going to build up that structure with the kit plastic pieces.  They look like they have well- designed joints.  Then, I will place that structure over the jig to correlate my measurements and the plastic structure.  The jig will then help me keep alignment when building up the PE girder work.

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

ikar01

...When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island...

Well, remember that she was an experiment, as were most of her contemporaries, the "firsts" around the world.  At that time, I think more objections were raised about having anything sticking up out of her flight deck, than about having a raised control platform on the flight deck.  I think the question of an island was effectively settled by her early operations, and the answer carried forward to the Ranger's design.

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

Have you seen the build over on Model Shipwrights?  https://forums.kitmaker.net/t/seaplane-tender-uss-langley-av-3-1-350/11857/74  Some really impressive etchwork going on there.

ddp59

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

 

There is some deck sheer, but very little.

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

Got the hull painted now.  Bottom is a Rustoleum satin red (not flat enough- thin coat of dullcoat over it).  Boot topping is Testors semi-gloss black, upper hull is the Tamiya primer.

All decks now in place.  Notice masking tape squares where girders will be glued to deck.  Will save a lot of scraping.  Still some details to quarterdeck needed before painting decks.

GMorrison

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

 

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Yep, found some new pics there that did not show up in Google Images.  And have the block drilled for pencil to draw boot line, but ran out of time to scribe in.

I did get a coat of Tamiya fine primer last night.  The kit called out Testors light gull gray.  I fortunately have two bottles of that in my stash.  But it looks a little dark to me.  The primer looks just right for what I suspect it looked like.  I know it is hard to tell anything from a black and white photograph, but I have been doing B&W photography for about seventy years, and feel I am pretty good at determining shades of gray from them, so I will be using the primer for hull and deckhouse color.  It may be a little on the warm side, but it will be hard to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

Bill

 

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Bill

Yesterday I drilled holes through the hull for the mounting pedestals.  I cut two pedestels from 1/4 " acrylic rod.  I then glued wood with 17/64 into  holes on the bottom of the hull to reinforce the rods.  I then match drilled down through the hull into an MDF building base.  The rods are a nice press fit into both the hull and the base, so I will not glue them into place in the hull until later.  They will of course not be drilled into the working base.  As soon as I get the oak board for the display base I will match drill though those holes into the display base.  I also glued little wood tabs over the wood support blocks, so when I do insert the pedestals I will know when they are fully inserted, to make the pedestals equal length from the hull.

goldhammer88

They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags. Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea. Think it's still a backup to today's light system. LSO usually a rated pilot.

Before the "yellow wing" era; a/c radios were hghly uncommon.  Voice radios were not terribly common in the yellow-wing era either. 

Aviators came frst, so there was a cadre of expereinced fully-fledged aviators to be LSO, when that notion appeared as a way to get less-experienced fliers aboard. 

Signal flags were likely used to communicated to groups of a/c while flying (whch likely explains why there's a mast through the deck).

LSO are stll in use today.  And are in place for every landing.  Holding a "pickle" which can over-ride the landing approace light system.  Every landing is also graded, and the futures of the aviators and their standings in the squadrons are based on those grades.  Which are publicly posted.  IIRC you have to have 2000 hours to even be considered for LSO school.

amphib

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

 

Fortunately the kit supplies planes of the pre-war era.  I love the yellow wing planes, and will build it for the era of the Curtiss and Martin birds.

Keep in mind that if you are going to model the ship during her short career in WWII she was no longer an aircraft carrer. She was AV3 a seaplane tender and only had a flight deck only over the aft half of the ship.

Bridge was under flight deck forward in the 1920's.

Ok.  So on this carrier with no island, where did they hide the bridge?

just curious.

Okay, guys, I finally agree.  And I found pictures of models that were full hull with lots of planes on deck.  Engines not running but that was a little thing.  I think having a few engines running and one even moving will not shange the ascetics much.  I need to decide before I do much as I make a "build base" before I close up hull.  I use that when ship is done to match drill the display base.    Full hull- first step will be drilling holes for display pedestals.

ikar01

When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

Like all straight deck carriers, she could only conduct one type of flight ops at a time. The deck would be spotted for launching or recovery. Conning the ship and signalling are more important from an island due to height. Flight control ops was only a small portion of the island structure on later carriers. The yellow jerseys directors on deck controlled the movement, launching, and recovery. Radios were minimally involved. It was loudspeakers for the deck crew and hand & arm along with flag and paddle signals to direct the aircraft .

JoeSMG

Rocketman, I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

Bill

They would have an LSO, Landing Signal Officer, guiding the pilot in with hand held flags.  Common all the way through WWII and probably through Korea.  Think it's still a backup to today's light system.

LSO usually a rated pilot.

And I thought that the Wolverine was going to be a problem.

When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island.  Did they just stand somewhere with a cart carrying a radio?

Rocketman,

I'm a full hull guy and would not find air-ops on a full hull display at all off-putting.

You certainly will have your work cut out for you!
All that delicate, figgitty PE work under the deck, would try my patience and abilities.

If you pull it off she'll be a masterpiece of intricate PE eye candy.

Good luck! (and please keep us updated)

I'm not surprised at the amount of PE. There was a large and complicated bridge structure forward, under the flight deck.

And that itself was a superstructure on the hull of the former coal tender (?).

It is strange that as such a trial donkey she ended up serving and being sunk in combat.

Did the kit come with Vought PE-7s?

Bill

Granted, it was a bit before my time  .  .  . but it appears that the masts retract into the deck, periscope style. There is an obvious opening / hatch at the bottom of the mast. Similarly, the aircraft 'cageing' does the same per these shots;

Can't help on mast question, but NavSource does show a picture of her attention anchor with a plane still aft, and getting ready to land.