USS Langley: Breakthrough

Don, I have some success with using a very thick CA, a small amount has holding power because of the hign viscosity, and it won't set until you hit it with accelerator.

Don, touch base with ModelCrazy. He did the Akagi this year and it had similar girder work. Bet he can give you some direct insight on how he did it.

Luvspinball

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

 

 

I do use the uv glue for other tasks, but for the PE in this set I have a tough time holding the parts in perfect position.  I need a glue that holds the piece while I release it.  Even a very slight twitch launches these super light pieces.  I was figuring that they may weigh less than a milligram, but I do not have a scale with that kind of sensitivity.

Has anyone ever tried the UV-activated stuff on PE?  You would probably have to use some small clips (aligator clips) to hold the pieces in alignment while you hit it with the UV light, but the stuff is supposed to hold like gangbusters.  Plus it only activates when you hit it with the light, so you should be able to get your fingers and tweezers out of the way.

I have never used it, but I would certainly try it in these delicate areas that you are showing.  But then again, it may not work as well as I was told.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Bob

rocketman2000

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

...

Substituting the original kit pieces on failed PE (if they even existed) is exactly what I did. I too used a pin head to apply the least amount of CA possible - if it sets and aligns right, I may add a bit more CA (again with a pin head) for strength. I think your Langley will come out great, those pictures look excellent aside from the problematic sections and the replacements will look fine once painted.

Joe, I agree with the minimum amount of CA glue- I am using my needle tool and tip of toothpics.

I have a new idea.  The plastic pieces for those sections that are the same piece as the PE ones.  They are a bit thicker and wider, but still look reasonable. 

This the equivalent of these PE pieces.  They look like substantial battle damage!  I hope I can cut them off, or debond them without destroying the rest of the structure.

I am making progress however.  The rest of the PE is coming along- the rectangular structure is okay, the pieces are all rectangles with no little beams sticking out.

As you can see, I have glued in the elevator in the UP position, as I will be depicting the planes in flight operations.

I know well the pain of PE, I've only done one model that was heavy on PE and after I finished it I was pretty sure I'd never do another.

Seemed like I could hold the CAed PE against the spot I wanted it for a minute and it would not take. But let it touch anything else for a fraction of a second and I'd end up ruining it trying to pry it apart, frustrating stuff. My go to fail was ruining the PE because it stuck to the tweasers, that happened a lot.

I'd say about 20% of the PE included never made it on the model...

I had the most success when using the least amount of CA possible. I did get a bit better with practice but I've never found working with PE enjoyable.

Perhaps compromise and use more of the kit where the PE is a real bear.

Hope it all works out!

rocketman2000

 

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint...

Would one of those "third hand" tools like this one help?

https://www.micromark.com/Triple-Grip-Third-Hand

(Not an advertisement or endorsement of MicroMark, it was just the most convenient link I could find at the time. I have one of these, that I bought at a show.)

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering?

 

Bill

 

Yes, I have considered it.  However, seems to me it would take three hands- one to hold piece in place, one to hold iron, and one to hold solder.  Maybe I could just tin the structure with a little bit of solder and not hold solder to the joint.

Other concern is that pieces are so small and light and have zilch thermal capacity I am not sure I could solder one joint without loosening a bunch of others.

GMorrison

Have you considered soldering? 

Bill 

Have you considered soldering?

Bill

I'm a complete amature with PE, most ends up flying off into space.  But perhaps something like this might help

I am at a standstill, going nowhere.  There are PE patterns I am trying to glue in place, and going nowhere.  Here is a picture of one of these pieces.  The sheet is only .006, and the line widths are .016.  The temper is like semi hard or semi soft, sort of in-between.

Keeping the piece flat is almost impossible.  I have tried keeping the piece on the clear plastic backing while I glue it on.  Then trying to remove the backing after the glue sets distorts the piece terribly.  In fact the lightest touch bends, twists or curls parts.  Have you ever tried to shape a piece of Christmas tinsel foil?

The latest problem I am facing is when I do manage to get it in place the CA glue I am using will not adhere!  My theory is that in doing the handling to get it flat and in place I cannot do it all with tweezers.  This stuff is so thin that tweezers do not hold all that well, in spite of cleaning and resurfacing the ends frequently.  I think I am getting skin oil on the pieces, which is limiting the stickiness of the glue.  I am going to try using gloves- will test whether cotton or plastic will be best.  I am afraid cotton may stick to any glue spots and trying to tear it away will ruin the piece (no extras given).  I will also have a small bowl of lacquer thinner nearby and will soak each piece before applying.

EdGrune

 

 

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

 

 

 

I believe it was Loose Cannon

 

I find the PE work the most difficult I have ever done.  I shudder to thick of doing it half that size.  I would not use pe for girder work- stay with plastic girders in 1:700!

Really nice work, Don.

the Baron

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

I believe it was Loose Cannon

I believe the instructions for the Trumpeter photo-etch optional package.  Each bay of the girder structure consists of two longitudinal girders between two transverse structures.  Many bays also contain one or two smaller transverse beams going between the longitudinal girders within the bay.  The PE instructions show fastening these little beams to the longitudinal  girders as the first step in doing that bay.

But, some bays also have some external additional sections  (four per bay) that are installed later to the inside and outside of the longitudinal girders.  And these cannot be installed to the inside face of those girders if these transverse girders are already installed!  I find I must build up the bay and put these pieces in first- do not install those transverse beams within the bay until after those longitudinal supports are applied.  These are the supports like C-5, C-9, etc.

ddp59

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

 

Problem is, that angle is so small I do not have a good way to measure it accurately, especially with the junk on the deck.  It certainly looks appropriate.

I have scrapped the jig I was making- I found a better way to make sure the grid work matches up to the right alignment.  I taped the flight deck down to a scrap of wood, with the bottom side showing.  The molding of the deck clearly shows the right position where the girders go, with good precision.  I am gluing each girder or girder assembly to the spot where it goes.  There is lots of glue area on the brasswork where it attaches to the flight deck, so the assembly is getting strong (I also glue each girder to other ones).

The structure so far is looking pretty good.  The white streaks is where I used a bit too much accelerator.

rocketman2000

It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all),

I would suggest you rethink that.

Bill

Got the deck painted, and now doing PE (from the kit, not the aftermarket stuff yet) on foredeck and quarterdeck.

I have some concerns about the optional PE (the flight deck support girders).  It looks like there is a lot of butt joints (but I am NOT going to solder them all), some at critical angles.  I am not confident of getting those angles correct when I glue those girders together.

I am making a jig with a piece of white cardboard and scrap wood.  I have measured the locations where that structure glues to main deck, and transferred marks to that jig.  But I am not confident of my transfer of measurements alone.  I am going to build up that structure with the kit plastic pieces.  They look like they have well- designed joints.  Then, I will place that structure over the jig to correlate my measurements and the plastic structure.  The jig will then help me keep alignment when building up the PE girder work.

This is a subject that I'd love to see someone bring out in injection-molded styrene in 1/700.  I know there was a resin kit of the Langley (Corsair Armada?) but I'd prefer styrene.  I've held out hope that Trumpeter would scale this one down to 1/700.

ikar01

...When flying, how did they control teh aircraft?  I don't see anything the even remotely looks like a island...

Well, remember that she was an experiment, as were most of her contemporaries, the "firsts" around the world.  At that time, I think more objections were raised about having anything sticking up out of her flight deck, than about having a raised control platform on the flight deck.  I think the question of an island was effectively settled by her early operations, and the answer carried forward to the Ranger's design.

Don, see if the bow sheer matches these plans.

AC-3 – USS Jupiter – Plans, 1913, Collier (later converted to USS Langley CV-1), https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ac3.pdf

Have you seen the build over on Model Shipwrights?  https://forums.kitmaker.net/t/seaplane-tender-uss-langley-av-3-1-350/11857/74  Some really impressive etchwork going on there.

ddp59

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

 

There is some deck sheer, but very little.

Don, is the model's forecastle deck parallel to the waterline or angled upwards to the bow?

Got the hull painted now.  Bottom is a Rustoleum satin red (not flat enough- thin coat of dullcoat over it).  Boot topping is Testors semi-gloss black, upper hull is the Tamiya primer.

All decks now in place.  Notice masking tape squares where girders will be glued to deck.  Will save a lot of scraping.  Still some details to quarterdeck needed before painting decks.

GMorrison

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

 

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Yep, found some new pics there that did not show up in Google Images.  And have the block drilled for pencil to draw boot line, but ran out of time to scribe in.

I did get a coat of Tamiya fine primer last night.  The kit called out Testors light gull gray.  I fortunately have two bottles of that in my stash.  But it looks a little dark to me.  The primer looks just right for what I suspect it looked like.  I know it is hard to tell anything from a black and white photograph, but I have been doing B&W photography for about seventy years, and feel I am pretty good at determining shades of gray from them, so I will be using the primer for hull and deckhouse color.  It may be a little on the warm side, but it will be hard to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

Bill

 

Neato! Next to mark the boot. There are a lot of really high quality photos on Navsource, if you've checked them out.

Even one with an autogyro on deck!

Bill