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USS San Francisco CA-38 References - Questions

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  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
USS San Francisco CA-38 References - Questions
Posted by kielers on Sunday, April 30, 2023 3:35 AM

Good Morning All,

I haven't posted here for a long time and I apologize for that.  I'm typically an airplane guy and haven't built a ship since I was a kid sometime in the 70s but I want to change things up after my last few builds.

I started work on Trumpeter 1/350 USS San Francisco 1942 version, still at the very early phase, cleaning up parts, waiting on delivery of detail sets and gathering resources and references. 

The references part is where I'm having some frustration.  It's difficult to find good, close up photos of various parts of the deck, the hull, hangar deck and inside the hangar and different parts of the super structure.  I have a couple hard copy books and magazines but they are limited in photos and drawings.  I also scoured the internet for the same and gathered what I could find. 

One source I'm interested in is the Warships Pictorial No. 5 - CA-38 book but it's out of print and ridiculously expensive at most sites I can find one.  Cheapest I've found is about 90-100 euros, not including shipping.  One question I have; is this book worth that much? 

Another is; where else can I go for up-close photos of the ship? 

The kit hull is completley smooth, except for the armor belt on the sides.  Is this accurate for the real ship, or are there a weld seams and other plating on the hull? 

Thanks and I appreciate any help or guidance you can give. 

Steve 

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, April 30, 2023 6:58 AM

Steve!

        I had the same problem with a civilian ship I did recently for a client. Some ships are hard to find info on. Especially photos that will help in the way you need. Try some of the websites that offer 1/96 plans. Those are usually fairly somewhat cheaper and have all the info you will need.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, April 30, 2023 11:02 AM

Steve, check this link if you haven't already.  https://www.navsource.org/archives/04/038/04038.htm

there are seams & plating but you will not see them at 1/350 scale. can you see the individual skin panels or even the rivets on a airliner or a fighter/bomber from a distance?

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Sunday, April 30, 2023 1:11 PM

Thanks Tanker-Builder, I'll try those websites.

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Sunday, April 30, 2023 1:14 PM

Thanks ddp59.  This is one of the sites I've found the best photos so far.  And also good info about what can be seen on the hull in this scale.  Appreciate it.  

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 1, 2023 1:03 AM

There's a damage report after the battle that has hundreds of pieces of info.

Not hard to find on line.

That is my favorite kit in1/350 of a USN ship from WW2.

Get the PE from GMM and the seagulls.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Monday, May 1, 2023 1:17 AM

Thanks GMorrison.  I already found some of the battle report.  And the GMM PE set is on the way.

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, May 1, 2023 11:28 AM

kielers
Another is; where else can I go for up-close photos of the ship? The kit hull is completley smooth, except for the armor belt on the sides. Is this accurate for the real ship, or are there a weld seams and other plating on the hull?

Ah, the endless dilemma of the ship modeler.

For CA-38, you may want to check out her sisteres i nthe New Orleans Class and see what detail photos you can find.  They will, of course, want grains of salt in application.

And, it's very easy to get overwhelmed in putting details in, which will be subsequently invisible.  Even at the generous proportions 1/350 offers.

Which gets us back to the hull question. 

At 1/350, a person observing the model at 30cm is equal to viewing the prototype at 105 meters (or as we, in Imperial, might put it--at 12" you are 350 feet away).

So, a person might be excused for simulating plating lines by using paint lines agaist a misk like a Post-it Note--faint but present.

Consider this 1944 image:

That's going to be around 80-100m distance in the photo.  Take from that image what you will for rendering the appearance of the ship.

Please note too, how little wethering there is on a ship in the middle of a war.  USN vessels sledem were mor than 90 days out of a port facility and getting at least basic maintenance.  CA-38 would have around 100-120 sailors whose only job was to maintain paint and finish, and their only day "off" was Sunday.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Sunday, May 7, 2023 10:52 PM

CapnMac82,

Thanks much for your help.  I do have a New Orleans class cruiser book and am looking for more.  I also found some techniques like you referenced in some of my books and magazines. 

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by Surface_Line on Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:35 AM

If you don't already have it, I would strongly recomment "New Orleans Class Cruisers" in the Shipcraft series, by Lester Abbey.  Even though it is not just focused on San Francisco herself.

The regular format of the Shipcraft books is to provide historical info, photos, information about available kits and detail sets (broad info, not just a list of kit names), color photos of well-built models, color plates or camouflage schemes and drawings.  I haven't started to build one of the kits of the class, but I trust that when I do, this book will keep me on track.

Rick

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Sunday, May 21, 2023 1:33 AM

Thanks Rick, for your reply.

Yes, I do have this publication and the one I'm using most, besides some plan drawings I found online.  But I'm still looking for more up-close detail photos of different areas on the superstructure, like the types of watertight doors, etc.

  

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Sunday, May 21, 2023 1:48 AM

Good Morning TankerBuilder,

Reading through some of the posts in the Ships forum, it seems you're a pretty accomplished ship modeller, so I want to ask you a detail question.  

I'm looking for tips/techniques to better replicate the blast bags on main guns of this kit. The molded on blast bags in this Trumpeter kit do not at all look like 'bags' or even resemble anything canvas.  They look more like a metal mantlet on a tank, even a little oversized.  

I appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Steve

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, May 21, 2023 12:20 PM

kielers
to better replicate the blast bags on main guns of this kit.

Something to vex modelers for a long time.

At arms'-length they are clearly an "oilskin"--rubberized canvas--sort of material, and do not look all that flexible.  Which is not helped by any paint flaking or breaks/creases in the laytex coating.

Being at sea, and under daily observation and attention, they do not get as dirty as, say, a tank's mantlet cover might.

Frome the deck edge railing the color is very much more solid, and the material, perhaps more flexible--but may be more from the knowledge that it is, rather than any tangible appearance.

By the time a person is any distance away, 50 or 100 meter, they are just a uniform color, and as "smooth" as the metal around them--just a different color.

 

As to modeling, putty is as often used as any other medium.  Although foils, paper, and the like have also been used, to verying degrees of satisfaction.

Moulded plastic is often less-tan satisfactory, as it may have fit problems--and, especially, is too uniform--the bags tend to have unique shapes for every mounting.

What has always vexed me is that putty, like Squadron or Milliput can be both too fine and too coarse at the same time.  I've found that blobbing it on, then waiting until it's trying to set up can help.  (But only can.)

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, May 21, 2023 1:47 PM

Hi! Keilers!

      Sorry for the late response. Doctors visits have interferred with my computer time. Now, what I do on ships of that scale(I seem to keep being given ones I would never buy or can afford). I take the plastic looking things and toss them!

     Then I get some good photos from my Library of books on these vessels.I find a good shot of the item in question, Here, "Blast Bags: Actually water-resistant Canvas treated material that keeps rain and Seawater off the parts of the Gun that must remain unpainted for recoil action to take place and remain dry!"

      Those on the D.D. I served on, were Canvas that was treated with some rather nesty smelling stuff(For the first day or two) Then Clamping it to the Barrel and the Gunhouse at the outlet for the gun. This outlet usually has an edge around it that is the installation point for the Bag.

      This then can be duplicated in 1/350 with individual hand wipes cut and fitted then painted multiple times , or dyed in Coffee. The whole Thing should be (Baggier !!)LOL.LOL.At the Bottom as it is done in such a way to allow the gun to elevate to it's extreme. I usually just paint them Testors " Rubber" color. It does blend with all the grey without standing out proud like "Semi-Gloss" or "Flat" Black would!

       I hope this helps. I haven't done a warship in a while and I am just getting my new shop area set up! T.B.

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Monday, May 22, 2023 1:15 PM

Hi TB,

Thanks for the tips.  Yes, in the photos of the San Francisco I have I can see the the cover sags and has more folds and creases on the underside of the bag and very few on top.  This is the look I'm trying to get.  

Can you give me an example of 'individual hand wipes?'  Are you talking about wet-ones or baby wipes?  

Thanks again. 

Steve

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Northeast Bavaria, Burglengenfeld, Germany
Posted by kielers on Monday, May 22, 2023 1:17 PM

Hi CapnMac,

Thanks for the tips.  I have some squadron putty (super fine) and will give that a try.

I'll try to post some photos if it works.  

Steve

"To stand upon ramparts and die for our principles is heroic, but to sally forth to battle and win for our principles is something more than heroic." -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." -- Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 22, 2023 8:46 PM

Take or leave what I'm about to say, of course.

I thought the kit supplied barrels/ bags looked just fine. I can't recall ever seeing it done on models where I thought it was an improvement. I'm thinking of some time gone by a Yamato that was just perfect in every way.

I find it more worth while to take a "3" and make it a "7" than take a "9" and make it a "10".

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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