1/350 Fletcher?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff_Herne Before you apply any brass to the model...soak the part in acetone or paint thinner. The creation of PE parts involves spraying photoresist and sensitizer on the sheet, exposing it to a light source, then soaking it in ferric chloride. In the end, the frets are dipped in water to stop the chemical process (etching), but there's still residual chemicals on the brass...this inhibits things like glue from sticking...same holds true for plastic parts, wash them in warm soapy water to get the mold release off...and everything will stick better... I don't have many photos of Fletchers in-progress, but I'll see what I can come up with for you. Also, the Squadron Signal book is okay if you want a general overview of the ships with some photos, but you really need my book if you want details. http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/wrpress/fletcher/wr-fletcher.html Jeff Herne

I too am beginning a Flether-class DD. I'm hoping to model the DD-683 USS Stockham (my grandfather served on her) and I'm having trouble coming up with many pics. I've been able to to determine she had M32/21d camo at least part of her life and she was square-bridge design. I'd really appreciate any help you guys can come up with.

Thanks,
Mark

jtilley, thanks. That is something I don't think anyone else would have caught. I'll have to look into that for my next project. I'm making this Fletcher into the U.S.S. Heermann (DD 532) during the Battle off Samar (Taffy 3). Its going to be straight up, no weathering.

My next Fletcher is going to be the U.S.S. Johnston, also from the battle. This one is going to be a dio of it going down still fighting. Great story about a truly great ship. That one will be fully weathered and I will definitely use yourpainting technique, jtiley.

Speaking of weathering, here is a great shot of what a ship looked like after a year or two in the Pacific. http://www.domeisland.com/fletcherclass/520isherwood_gk4732.html

It seems you can't overdo rusting!!

This is a most interesting and informative thread. I'll take the liberty of offering one little point about the painting of WWII U.S. warships that I've made in a couple of other posts in this forum. I owe this tidbit to my late father, who was a junior officer on board an attack transport in the Pacific.

Dad, like any other WWII Navy vet, remembered that the ship's crew spent a considerable percentage of their time chipping and renewing paint. (I suspect that activity was motivated as much by determination to keep young minds and hands busy as by any real necessity.) At any given moment a significant part of the ship was undergoing chipping, priming, and repainting. The great exception was the exterior of the hull, which generally was off-limits to the chippers while the ship was under way.

When the old paint had been chipped off the bare metal got a coat of primer, applied with a brush. During the war the standard U.S. Navy metal primer was a sickly, dull, slightly greenish pale yellow - presumably with a high content of zinc chromate. (Dad recalled that "some of our idiots" tried to save time by mixing the primer with the haze grey finish coat, producing a shade of green that was downright repulsive.) At any given moment, any ship that wasn't straight from a refit would be wearing numerous spots (probably no more than a couple of square feet apiece) of that primer, waiting to dry and be covered by the finish coat.

The key to success here is to make the spots small, inconspicuous, and subtle. I've done a couple of models with little yellow primer spots; they always bring grins of recognition to Navy veterans.

Hmm, thanks. I saw that one his web page. Looks like I'll have to get a few more 20s and 40s to fill this thing out.

Darn... and I was VERY proud of my first scratch build .... though it was on a very small level. Looks like I'll have to put this puppy on the shelf until sometime after 4 June. Thanks for everyone's help'


Edit: Correction, just got the Tom's conversion kit in the mail today. Looks pretty good, some flash and whatnot, but nothing a little sanding won't fix. I was surprised by the Pewter parts (Or lead?) And of course, the parts I scratched came with it and look better than mine. Looks like I'll have to do some de-construction of that. Thanks again for everyone's help, I really appreciate it.

Here ya go:

You know, looking at your pic, I might have just scratch built the parts that are included. I built the two additional AA platform about amidships, right behind the second funnel. I think they had a dual 40mm on top of them. I take it the Toms kit comes with them? If so, I might just have to rip those suckers off and go with the better looking one from Tom's. Thanks for the tip on filling in the holes. I did most of them, but I'll make sure I get them all.

The problem is, Tom's is closed until 4 JUN, so I got to sit around on my butt looking at this thing. It is very frustrating.

Hey one more question, does the Tom's kit come with extra 40/20mm guns? I know for the Tamiya kit I have to add 20mms to the fan tail, then from pictures I've seen around 5 40mm mounts (that's a guess, don't have my reference stuff here with me at the sec). It will be a while before I get the Tom's kit so I am holding off buy the aftermarket guns until I see what I got, as per my 20/40mm gun post. What other parts does the kit come with? I just want to avoid building something I don't need.

Thanks a lot, I appreacite your help.

Hey MarinR00,

What structures are you building? The Tom's set is very complete. Make sure you fill all the holes in the deck for the depth charge racks and k-gun racks. I ued it to do a late war round bridge.

I did use regular superglue for the railings but just a bit at a time. I started at one end, glued that and worked my way along the length, applying the glue with a pin from the deck side.

Those are awesome pics Dave. So I guess I should do as much as I can with the basic model before the PE, so I don't smash it down. What did you use for glue for the railing? Just regular superglue? I have been using that, but you have about 5 seconds before the stuff hardens and they piece is immobile. I guess I will have to pick up some slower drying stuff.

I am waiting for my Thomas Model's late war conversion kit to come in, then I need to order some extra 20/40mm AA guns to bulk up the AA defenses. But I am biding my time by making a cool stand and making the building the necessary extra structures on the boat with sheet styrene. Hopefully if she is finished before I leave for good I can post some pics.. that and also if I figure out HOW to post pics.

Here are a few pics of my progress to date.










I have installed most of the PE, I think that I may have done too much railing, but it is my first attempt. I applied the railings in full lengths from the etching and shaped/glued as I went along. I did paint it on the etching before I installed it. My main problems were when handling the model and crushing the PE with my fingers.
As for painting, I brush painted the camo, but did not thin the paint enough and I have very visible brush marks. I also had to repaint the deck blue on the sub-assemblies, as I had sprayed them in haze grey and did not want to mask off on such a small scale.
A note on the PE: The manufacturer (GMM) assumes that you are an expert on Fletcher class destroyers and know where everything should go. I worked most of it out myself but do not want to buy information on a subject just to fit the PE.
I will continue this model to completion, I want to complete the railings, install the rest of the parts, apply weathering, touch up the paintwork, and display it if it looks OK.
I will post more pics as I go on, although I have a break form 25th May for a holiday.
Hope this helps someone

Thanks modelguy

Modelmaster Dark Sea Blue lightened 30% with white for the Sea Blue sides. Dark Sea Blue with 20% white for the decks. This is just an approximation I just mix till I think it's right.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-09/350-mt/cv9-index.html

Thanks everyone for your help. Yes, I was aware that she was a late-war destroyer, and I've already ordered the conversion kit! Thanks again modelguy.

Looks like I got some paint mixing to do. It seems to be my lot in life to constantly ask people for tips, so here is another one.

Anyone know any good formulas using Testors Model Masters (or a straight up color) that can match the "Gray" of the Ms 21?

Thanks again you guys.

Johnston was painted in Measure 21, which calls for overall 5-N Navy Blue. She's wearing this in the work-up photo I've attached.

Destroyers wore three types of patterns by 1943-1944, Ms 21, Ms 22, and dazzle, Ms 31, 32, or 33.

'Gray' seems to be the most prevelant response from the WW2 vets, even with color photographic evidence to the contrary...remember, most of those guys are now in their 80s...

5-N did have a tendency to fade, a perfect example is the USS NJ, she was known as the 'Black Dragon' because her blue paint had faded to a dark gray. Later on in the war, the USN did revert to neutral shades of gray, but Johnston had been sunk long before these tech orders came down.

The nature of the paints was simple...you had tinting material 5-TM, and base 5-B. 5-B was white, and 5-TM was a very dark purple/blue. By mixing pre-determined amounts of the 5-TM with 5-B, you got all of the shades used by the USN, 5-H, 5-O, and 5-N.

Jeff

Check out this page from shipcamoflage.com:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/fletcher_class.htm
It says the Johnston was only in measure 21.

MarinR,

All evidence I've seen shows Johnston to be in Measure 21 Sea Blue overall. I recently (last week) talked to a vey from the USS Storm King AP-171 he said his ship too was overall gray. When I got the photos from the National Archives I have 2-Port and Starboard, showing the ship painted in pattern camouflage Design 1F. Did you know that the Johnston was a square bridge Fletcher? Toms Modelworks makes a resin conversion that inclused bridge and 40mm gun upgrades..........Mike T

This is an e-mail I sent to Jeff, but I thought other people might be able to add additional information and maybe it can help out a few people....



How are you doing? You seem to know a great deal about ships, particularly the Fletcher so I was wondering if I could ask you a quick question. I am doing research prior to building the U.S.S. Johnston at the time of her sinking during the Battle of Samar. In doing so, I talked to the author of the book Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, and got the following information about her color scheme.

REPLIES
Rob, from a man who would know, former Johnston BM 1/c Bob Hollenbaugh, president of the Survivors' Association, we have the following answer: "All gray. Never anything else on the old girl." Good luck with the model.

Now, when he told me that I was wondering what shade of gray it was. I found this website, http://battleships.freewebsitehosting.com/Camo.html , that has the different shades and I was wondering if you could shed any light on which on it is. Thanks a lot and I appreciate all your help, especially with the PE. I will probably post this under the "1/350 Fletcher" post, so many some other people can benefit as well. Thanks again.

Hey Jeff are you ever going to send the items we traded for 2 months ago or should I begin posting bad trader notices?

Jeff's Fletcher book isn't bad. It has plans for the various upgrades and patterns for all of the camo schemes. Get the Squaron book though for more photos of Fletcher DD's or just go over to NavSource for photos.

You can order my book from Pacific Front Hobbies, White Ensign, Floating Drydock, Hannants, Snyder and Short, Research in Scale, and Warshipbooks.com

I'm sure there's other places as well, but those are the ones I know of...it retails for about $25.

Jeff

HAHA, well either way thanks for the tip to was the parts in thinner before trying to glue them on. How much does your book go for and where can I get a copy of it? The SS Fletcher is lacking on camo schemes and color samples.

Well hey, ya know, I was being nice...but when it comes to details, my book blows the SS Fletcher book out of the water!!

At this point, I don't make enough from the annual sales of this book to make a difference...hence the term 'starving writer'.

J

Ever the salesman, eh, Jeff.

Before you apply any brass to the model...soak the part in acetone or paint thinner.

The creation of PE parts involves spraying photoresist and sensitizer on the sheet, exposing it to a light source, then soaking it in ferric chloride. In the end, the frets are dipped in water to stop the chemical process (etching), but there's still residual chemicals on the brass...this inhibits things like glue from sticking...same holds true for plastic parts, wash them in warm soapy water to get the mold release off...and everything will stick better...

I don't have many photos of Fletchers in-progress, but I'll see what I can come up with for you. Also, the Squadron Signal book is okay if you want a general overview of the ships with some photos, but you really need my book if you want details.

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/wrpress/fletcher/wr-fletcher.html

Jeff Herne

Done a few more bits tonight, cut off and replaced the moulded railing on the 2nd funnel with PE, fitted the bridge railing, brush painted the camo on the hull (needs a second coat) and cleaned up some excess glue from my earlier attempts.
I will post some more pics tomorrow.
MarinR00 - If you want I can e-mail the pics direct.

Awesome, I can't wait for mine to get here. I got the Tamiya kit, the GMM Fletcher Kit, the GMM 20mm/40mm kit and Tom's square bridge conversion kit on the way.


Guess I'll have to get some good sets of tweezers! Anymore tips from anyone would be greatly appracited.

Thanks again Daveash. Good luck with yours. Can't wait to see some pics when its done.

My main problem was with the small size of some of the parts, holding them in place and applying the glue. I guess that this will improve with practice. The GMM set is well worth getting and totally transforms the kit.

Those look awesome! Thanks for the pics. So the way you do PE is, you bend it to the right shape, then just dab a bit of super glue down, set it, and then it dry?

You run into any problems with the Tamiya Fletcher kit or the GGM PE you could warn us about??

I just picked up the Squadron series "Fletcher DD's in Action" which has some great pics and drawings in it and was only $8. Can't wait for it ti come in the mail so i can get cracking on it.

Here are a few pics of my in progress Fletcher with first time attempt at PE. Please excuse the poor finish on some parts but I will be cleaning it up before I start to paint the top coat.
I did not paint the PE before installing it, I wonder if that will make it stick any better.











It is amazing what a camera picks up. It looks OK from a distance. I will persevere with this kit and hopefully it will turn out OK.
Comments and advice welcome

Personally I paint the base coat and PE seperately, then put together (usually, there are ALWAYS execptions).