SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Heller Sirene and Phenix

29248 views
62 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:28 PM

If someone interested, here is the link of building Shipyard's paper-card model of HMS Alert on Lithuanian forum:

http://www.kvaksiuk.com/forum-lt/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=467

 

  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:59 PM

Somewhat similiar in the fact that you have to build a frame to attach the hull pieces to, be it a full hull or waterline model.Most or the paper ships I built were waterline. The important thing to remember is to be very careful and trial fit the pieces before you do any glueing, cuz once the parts are set, its difficult to remove them. Also, you`ll need some felt tip markers to color the white edges on th parts once you cut them out. If you are careful to build the hull and deck, the rest of the model isn`t tool hard to finish, It takes timepand patienc, patience, and more patience.Good luck!

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:18 PM

warshipguy

As for paper card modeling, it seems to be very similar to wooden plank-on-bulkhead building (at least in the photos you once sent to me!)

Bill, yes, it is.

And You will see, thats is very easy.

Marius

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:12 AM

Marius,

I missed that Revell release because I spent most of the early 1980's at sea.  Oh well, I have made due with the Lindberg "pirate ship" release.

As for paper card modeling, it seems to be very similar to wooden plank-on-bulkhead building (at least in the photos you once sent to me!)

Happy modeling!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:16 AM

warshipguy

When did Revell market Wappen von Hamburg? 

Bill, date on kit box - 1984.

warshipguy

Also, I have ordered my first paper card model, the British frigate HMS Enterprize by Model Shipyard.  I hope that the model lives up to the photos!

Happy modeling, You will see, that papercard modeling is very atractive.

Marius

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:08 PM

Marius,

Thank you for that website!  When did Revell market Wappen von Hamburg?  I have each of Lindberg's so-called pirate ships as well as the Gouda. 

As for Gouda's planking being overscale, just sand it off.  Many great models of Airfix's Royal Sovereign have been built and that kit has no planking detail at all.  At that small scale, it probably wouldn't be visible anyway.

Also, I have ordered my first paper card model, the British frigate HMS Enterprize by Model Shipyard.  I hope that the model lives up to the photos!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:41 PM

bad hat

Amazing! The Revell re-issue has the same box art as the original Lindberg model from 1965.I`ve never actually seen the Revell issue. Probably never released in the USA. BTW-interesting model site. Shame I can`t read or understand it, but the pictures speak for themselves.Check out "Brooklyn Plastic Modelers Society". Great models from our members.

Concerning the Wappen von Hamburg kit - that was Revell Germany release.

Concerning Lithuanian modeling forum site - at this forum You can find beutifull models. Mostly papercard models, scratch build models (wooden etc), wooden kit's models and plastic. You should not shame Yourself, becouse You can't read and understand languages from such small countries, as Lithuania is (3 mio people only :-), but we were 3'rd at world basketbal championship last year, USA were 1'rd, but how many people lives in USA, hugh? :-))), sorry for off toppic). Anyway, as You have said - pictures speak for themselves.

I was on the Brooklyn Plastic Modelers Society's site. I have found there good models.

  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:24 AM

Amazing! The Revell re-issue has the same box art as the original Lindberg model from 1965.I`ve never actually seen the Revell issue. Probably never released in the USA. BTW-interesting model site. Shame I can`t read or understand it, but the pictures speak for themselves.Check out "Brooklyn Plastic Modelers Society". Great models from our members.

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:13 PM

bad hat

Also there was the Pyro Gouda-a Dutch 68 gun ship from appx 1666, and Lindbergs Wappen Von Hamburg-a German 64 gun ship of 1667 that resembles a Dutch ship because the City of Hamburg hired Dutch master ship builders to construct it.The Gouida is only a so-so model with hull planking way overscale   and injection molded sails attached to the yards, but the Wappen is an excellent model. It usually gets re released as Capt,Kid`s ship, but it is definately worth building.

Agree about Wappen von Hamburg - perfect kit. This Lindbergs kit was reboxed by Revell/Ceji in beginning of 1980-ty's. Revell even leave ships name plate "Captain Kidd" on the model kit sprues. I have this model (issued by Revell/Ceji), and have made presentation on Lithuanian forum. If interested, please find a link:

http://www.kvaksiuk.com/forum-lt/viewtopic.php?p=3733#p3733

 

  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:59 PM

Also there was the Pyro Gouda-a Dutch 68 gun ship from appx 1666, and Lindbergs Wappen Von Hamburg-a German 64 gun ship of 1667 that resembles a Dutch ship because the City of Hamburg hired Dutch master ship builders to construct it.The Gouida is only a so-so model with hull planking way overscale   and injection molded sails attached to the yards, but the Wappen is an excellent model. It usually gets re released as Capt,Kid`s ship, but it is definately worth building.Also Pyro released a Dutch Staaten Jacht model in the late 60s. This little gem was never re-issued, but it isa fine model that compares favorably to the pictures in B Landstroms "The Ship".Replace the Inj. molded sails and ratlines and you have a fine little model. It is pretty rare, but if you see one on E Bay or a model show, buy it.

  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Mario1 on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:50 PM

Oh Ok , I understand, yes your right  that "I" made for a wide time gap. Mario

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:39 AM

Mario1

"Maybe La Sirene existed in mid of XVIII century, but not in that proportions and shape, as Heller's La Sirene" Understandable but your not correct, Your mixing up another ship,   with similar name sakes. The Sirene kit that Heller did is the 17 Century one, If you  look at the map I had posted you will notice the date, The 18 century were not as ornamented as the 17 century warships and will look to have a  different upper superstructures and mast arrangements. Compare the museum Wasa with Victory and will see what I am referring to.   From my research  the 17 Century Sirene did exist and was a 64 Gunner. If you go to the following link you will see the Sirene listed as the 6th ship from the bottom of the chart-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Barfleur_and_La_Hogue, There are many old books on this subject matter.  Heller Sirene  kit shares similar hull /mast molds parts from two other Heller kits (both I believe are 17 century also). Did the actual Sirene look like Heller's depiction? Most likely not, However if you look at contemporary art work and sketches for the period concerned,  you will see what they were aiming at. The kit does build into a nice model.  Market kits that I came across  for the 17 century warships are The Saint Louis, Soleil Royale, Sirene, Royal Sovereign, and Reale De France Galley.   Heller's Royal Louis depicts the  18 century warship along with the 1/100 scale Victory.  Mario

Mario, if You have look at my pictures (at given link), You can see, that year from this Hellers model in Minicraft box is stated 1650, ie mid of XVII century. I simply misstyped aditional "I", and have wrote wrong "XVIII", and should be "XVII", of course.

Believe me, i'm quite familiar with sailing ships design changes in centuries.

  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Mario1 on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:23 AM

"Maybe La Sirene existed in mid of XVIII century, but not in that proportions and shape, as Heller's La Sirene" Understandable but your not correct, Your mixing up another ship,   with similar name sakes. The Sirene kit that Heller did is the 17 Century one, If you  look at the map I had posted you will notice the date, The 18 century were not as ornamented as the 17 century warships and will look to have a  different upper superstructures and mast arrangements. Compare the museum Wasa with Victory and will see what I am referring to.   From my research  the 17 Century Sirene did exist and was a 64 Gunner. If you go to the following link you will see the Sirene listed as the 6th ship from the bottom of the chart-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Barfleur_and_La_Hogue, There are many old books on this subject matter.  Heller Sirene  kit shares similar hull /mast molds parts from two other Heller kits (both I believe are 17 century also). Did the actual Sirene look like Heller's depiction? Most likely not, However if you look at contemporary art work and sketches for the period concerned,  you will see what they were aiming at. The kit does build into a nice model.  Market kits that I came across  for the 17 century warships are The Saint Louis, Soleil Royale, Sirene, Royal Sovereign, and Reale De France Galley.   Heller's Royal Louis depicts the  18 century warship along with the 1/100 scale Victory.  Mario

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Monday, January 24, 2011 10:49 AM

Maybe La Sirene existed in mid of XVIII century, but not in that proportions and shape, as Heller's La Sirene. I have this kit (reboxed by Minicraft with Heller label on the kit parts), and have made presentation on Lithuanian modelers forum.

If interested, please look:

http://www.kvaksiuk.com/forum-lt/viewtopic.php?p=1912#p1912

  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:24 PM

Go to "Brooklyn Plastic Modelers Society". Look for BPMS Photo Gallery by Gordon. Click. You`ll see models from our November meeting. Run category until you see the members names on  right hand side. Look for "Phil B"- {myself} click. You`ll see some of my models. At end of the photos, you`ll see "older posts". Click until you see it.

Tags: ll
  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Sunday, January 23, 2011 11:03 PM

Wow! I never thought that such controversy would be generated by this ship model.According to the history on the Heller instruction sheet, it describes a ship that was built in the year 1650. That seems unlikely because the basic design of the hull would date it at least 15 years later-appx 1665. Also in the year 1650 France had not really devdeloped as a  "superpower".Even though they did produce a few homegrown ships like the Couronne of 1638, they pretty much purchased their fighting ships from Holland. This was not unusual because Dutch built ships were sold to countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, Russia {until Peter the Great established the Russian navy in the early 18th. century}the Italian states like Genoa and Venice and even Turkey.Maybe the Sirene is somewhat "fictional" in appearence, but what one must  remember was that France known for its extragravance in this era of Louis Quatorze.One shipbuilder-sorry, his name escapes me-even suggested that the basic design of the ship should be changed to make them even more ornamental! Anyway, thanks for posting this map.There is a great naval museum in Paris. I intend to go there for a vacation in the near future. Maybe I can do some research and see what I can come up with. I`ll keep all of you posted.

 

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Longmont, CO
Posted by tiredmarine on Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:58 PM

Bill,

I have both kits.  The IMAI that I have is 1/80 scale, rather than Heller's 1/50th.  The deck is one piece, rather than 3 (curved main and two orlop decks.  The prow and the high ornate sides are molded onto the hull rather than separate pieces.  The canon trucks are single piece rather than multiple.  All in all a lot fewer parts, much simpler and about half the size of the heller kit.  My avatar is the heller Chebec kit which I finished May 1st of last year.  We won't talk about how long it took.  While the IMAI kit is very clean and on its own is a fine kit, it is not anywhere near the level of the Heller kit. I also think that are molded parts on the hull that are to thick and out of scale, on the IMAI kit.

Mac Felsing

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by armourguy on Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:58 PM

Hello all, This is not my modeling area of focus nor am I commenting on this post, I was contacted by Mario Grima (who built the Heller Sirene) to post this for him for this post about the Sirene.  Thank you.

Here is some information that should shed some light on the Sirene and other ships that participated at the battle of that period. This a contemporary diagram of the order of battle for Beachy Head June 30, 1690 (prior to La Hougue). What this shows is that a French warship by the name Sirene did exist for that time period (3rd column, second ship in the listing). You can find more information on the battle and this diagram in book The Influence of Sea Power upon History 1660-1805” by Alfred Thayer Mahan. Mario Grima

  • Member since
    June 2010
Posted by RobertP on Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:32 PM
Normal 0 false false false EN-GB X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Don’t ever give up on super-trivia jtilley - half of this forum wouldn’t exist without it!

Interesting to read your comment about Revell using the soft plastic ratlines for most of their kits early on. I built their Golden Hind when I was around 13 (1967) and that has the injection molded shrouds (I’ve still got it upstairs, a little the worse for wear – one of my first attempts to do a really careful paint job). I built the Revell Victory around the same time and that had (as today) the injection molded ratlines too. At the time I can remember being conflicted about them. I’d always struggled with the “soft” ratlines – it was the devil to get them to hang right – but the solid ones, as you say, looked horribly out of scale.

The big Revell Cutty Sark had the soft plastic ratlines way back when I nearly bought it about 1965/6 as does the 1:96 Constitution today (I suspect the only example left?) I think they work best with the larger scale ships as the masts are more rigid and its easier to get the tension right.

As for the Endeavour, I built it in about 1964 (my first ever “big” ship) and that had bare yards, vac-formed sails and “soft” ratlines.        

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:09 PM

RobertP
Normal 0 false false false EN-GB X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
One thing that did strike me was that all the Airfix kits have gone over to the Heller-style ratline “loom”. When I built them first 40+ years ago they had those “soft plastic on thread” jobs of the sort used in the 1:96 Revell Constitution. In those days Revell used the soft plastic ratlines on some kits but now seem to have gone over entirely to the rigid plastic parts which, on a small  kits are probably the worst option of all. I assume the Airfix use of the “loom” is a hangover from their Heller-linked days?

I think I know the broad outlines of this odd "ratline story," though I'm foggy about some of the details - and dates.

In 1956 Revell issued its first sailing ship (not counting the tiny "Shipyard Miniatures" series, originally made by Gowland, that appeared briefly under the Revell name a few years earlier):  the U.S.S. Constitution.  (This is the one that's usually cited as being on either 1/192 or 1/196 scale; I haven't measured it.)  According to the bible on the subject, Dr. Thomas Graham's Remembering Revell Model Kits, "the biggest headache [in designing the kit] proved to be the rope ladders - the ratlines - that ran from the deck to the tops of the masts.  The easy way to make the ratlines would be simply to injection-molde them in plastic, but then the ropes would be far too thick for the scale of the ship.  Requiring the ten-year-old builder to tie together true-to-scale ratlines was too much to ask for.  After months of experimentation, [Chrarles] Gretz [Revell's chief engineer]  and his engineers solved the problem by devising a machine that would feed plastic-coated string into a jig with all a ship's ratlines laid-out in order.  The machine would then clamp down on the lines and heat seal them together.  All the kit builder had to do was to lay the ratline assembly over a paper pattern included with the instructions and trim off the excess string.  It wasn't a perfect solution...but it was the best solution any hobby company had come up with to that time - or since."

I'm fairly certain that all of Revell's sailing ship kits were originally issued with those "pre-formed ratlines."  (An exception may have been the "Peter Pan Pirate Ship," which I think may have had injection-molded shrouds and ratlines from the beginning; I'm not sure.  And I don't think the Santa Maria originally had ratlines at all.  There's a strong possibility that the real ship didn't.)  That included the big, 3-foot kits:  the Cuty Sark, Kearsarge, Constitution, and their various clones. 

Sometime in, I think, the early 1970s, somebody at Revell decided, for one reason or another, to dump the plastic-coated thread idea.  I don't know why.  Maybe somebody came to the same conclusion I did:  that the plastic-coated thread concoctions just didn't look like the real thing, and were almost impssible to set up properly anyway.  At any rate, Revell started packaging grossly oversized injection-molded "shrouds and ratlines" with most of its ship kits.  (Dr. Graham mentions the dates when several of the old kits got their new shroud/ratline assemblies; the deed seems to have been done in about 1972 and 1973.)  The big 3-foot kits, however, kept their plastic-coated thread ones.  (I have the impression that the one 3-footer still on the market, the Constitution, still has them.)

The best source on Airfix kits that I've found is Arthur Ward's The Boy's Book of Airfix, published in 2009.  Mr. Ward's "kit list" isn't as detailed as Dr. Graham's, but it makes it pretty clear that the first good-sized Airfix sailing ships were the Endeavour and the Royal Sovereign (aka Sovereign of the Seas), originally released in 1963.  (Airfix, like Revell, had sold a series of tiny little sailing ships in the fifties, but these two were the first that amounted to serious scale sailing ship models.)  I bought both of them shortly thereafter (though I don't remember the exact year).  Both had plastic-coated thread "shrouds and ratlines," just like the Revell kits. 

There's one questionable element in this part of the story.  I don't think the Airfix Endeavour that I bought was the first issue of the kit.  I've seen photos and copies of instruction sheets that seem to say that it originally had "furled sails," injection-molded integrally with the yards.  I bought several of the kits over the years; all of them had bare yards and vac-formed sails.  If the vac-formed sails were a later addition - well, maybe the plastic-coated thread "shrouds and ratlines" were too.  I don't know.  Maybe a British Forum member can shed some light on this.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain that all the othe "Airfix Classic" sailing ship kits were originally issued with plastic-coated thread "shrouds and ratlines."  

I got acquainted with Heller sailing ship kits for the first time in the mid-seventies, when they started showing up in the U.S. under the "Minicraft" label.  Some of the first ones I saw included that gold-colored plastic "loom" for rigging shrouds and ratlines, but I'm not sure just when it was introduced.

I suspect RobertP is right:  the "loom" started getting packaged with Airfix kits as a result of the relationship between Airfix and Heller. 

In the grand scheme of the universe, all this surely qualifies as honest-to-goodness super-trivia.  But for Olde Phogies like me it's interesting stuff.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2010
Posted by RobertP on Friday, November 19, 2010 4:13 AM
Normal 0 false false false EN-GB X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

For those interested in making detailed comparisons between manufacturers who use each others molds, or those that rebox the same kit as different ships I’ve found a Polish model kit website (see below) that has detailed photos of the box contents for about two thirds of their sailing ship kits. As its out of production they don’t have the Phenix but most of the Heller kits are there and some interesting comparisons can be made. The Zvezda “Acheron” and Revell “Dom Fernando II e Gloria” being a good example that’s been commented on elsewhere on the forum

One thing that did strike me was that all the Airfix kits have gone over to the Heller-style ratline “loom”. When I built them first 40+ years ago they had those “soft plastic on thread” jobs of the sort used in the 1:96 Revell Constitution. In those days Revell used the soft plastic ratlines on some kits but now seem to have gone over entirely to the rigid plastic parts which, on a small  kits are probably the worst option of all. I assume the Airfix use of the “loom” is a hangover from their Heller-linked days?

 

 Polish kits site:

 http://www.model-making.eu/sailing-vessels-k-1-102297.html

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:38 PM

Thanks for the advice!  I actually have the Imai kit and it is a terrific one.  I like the larger scale of the Heller kit, and am interested in seeing the differences, if any.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, November 18, 2010 3:32 PM

Bill, on UK's e'bay time after time is IMAI's Chebeque listed. Price varies by 25 - 50 GBP + shipping. Not big money at my mind.

IMAI's Chebeque is better reproduced as Heller's.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:35 AM

RobertP,

I have been looking for a reasonably priced Heller Chebec as well.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    June 2010
Posted by RobertP on Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:03 PM

I'm pretty sure that Heller is still based in France and is actually producing kits rather than selling off old stock for two reasons.

1. There is a steady flow of Heller sailing ship kits into the UK - many of the stockists report healthy stock numbers which appear to be replenished from time to time

2. I bought the Real de France  in Feb 2010 and it had a couple of sprues missing (some sprues are x4 and my kit had only included them x2). The seller put me on to the importer who supplied me with missing sprues and we had a conversation about  how the error had come about. We agreed that they had been mis-packed and he gave me the clear impression that this would have happened recently and he might feed back my experience to them to avoid future mistakes (a warning for all you modellers who buy and stash - check the contents before putting a kit into storage!!)

My understanding is that Heller is being run under a French version of administration - producing kits from existing molds and even bringing old molds back into production from time to time. Profits made go towards paying off creditors and keep a few people in work.

The chance of any new kits therefore seems somewhat remote but we can always hope some oldies they still have the molds of will make a comeback - my own personal wish along these lines is the Chebec mentioned a few posts ago - it looks like a superb kit and has a lot of positive comments on this forum - everytime I see one on e-bay I bid but my desire not to spend more than £100 ($150) before postage has resulted in failure thus far!

Hows about I start a thread to assess demand for the Chebec and feed back the results to Heller? I'm sure I could track down the phone number of that importer to get contact details?

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:50 AM

I imagine the "cannot be shipped by air" notice has to do with the bottles of cement that are contained in the kits.  (The kits that don't have cement included don't seem to carry the notice.)  Whether Squadron actually has all these kits in its Texas warehouse, and can therefore ship them to addresses in the U.S. by UPS ground, I don't know; my guess is the answer is yes.  Squadron generally seems to be pretty good about identifying merchandise that's out of stock.

In addition to the points Billyboy raised, another reason to worry about these kits is that Heller is well known to have had some pretty severe quality control problems in recent years.  I haven't built a Heller kit in a long time myself, but here in the Forum I've read lots of complaints about brittle, warped, and/or rubbery styrene that's a far cry from what used to be the company's standard.  If what's being sold now is in fact a batch of kits that were squirted out of the molds before the "old" Heller went bankrupt, and have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere ever since, heaven only knows what may be in those boxes.

I personally don't intend to take the risk - at least until I can either see the product with my own eyes or read a review from knowledgeable modeler who's looked at the "new product" in question.  In the mean time, my own personal stash is such that it's capable - quite literally - of lasting me the rest of my life.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: UK
Posted by Billyboy on Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:26 AM

Heller kits seem to be available in the UK again too, the flagship of the range,HMS Victory, retailing for around £120-30 (or roughly the price of two Revell 1/96 Connies!)

I too find info on the current status of Heller S.A. hard to come by. I even wonder whether we are looking at a genuine resurrection of the company or a re-box and sell-off of pre-2006 stock as part of the work of the administrators' attempt to claw back some money? I haven't had a chance to ask in my local hobby shop here in the UK, but I will do so the next time I'm in.

I wouldn't care to speculate on it all really, but it would be interesting to know whether Heller is going to be here to stay or this is a last-ditch attempt to get rid of stock.

A couple of those big sailing ships are well worth building, but are pretty huge projects (I have the French 74s and Passat which I picked up very cheap in the late '90s), but I am rather aprehensive of buying a model as complicated as the big heller ships at full retail price unless there was imminent danger of them disappearing from the market and reverting to the prices charged by speculative vendors in the second-hand marketplace!

Will

 

  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by bad hat on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:51 PM

It just MIGHT be the old Heller galleon "Corona" repackaged as a "pirate ship" I`ve seen the box art and it does kinda bear it out, but it also MIGHT be the Revell "Golden Hind".  Anyway, the asking price was kinda high, even if it does contain a few vials of paint.  And why can`t it be shipped to the US? I won`t even try to guess.

The big Heller  "Passat" and "Preussen" are good models, even if they got the jackstay locations wrong. I have a very old Graupner model of the "Passat", a wooden kit  from the early 60s. Nice model and the fittings are very well done.  This is one ship that I always wanted to build. Not too sure of the scale, but the model seems a little bigger than the Heller version.

With the "Pirates of the Carribean" franchise -and the possibility of a "Pirates 4", it seems that pirates are very cool right now. It isn`t too surprising to see  the kitmakers trying to cash in on it, but at what price?

Lindberg even re released some of the old Pyro pistol-gun models from the 50`s as "pirate pistols".  Remember their first pirate ship models? The "Wappen Von Hamburg" as the Captain Kidd galleon and the French frigate "La Flore" as the "Jolly Rogers? These were good models and fairly authentic, especially when compared to the illustrations of them in B Landstrom`s great work "The Ship" I was  able to build a fairly accurate version -if accurate can be used to describe a fictional ship- model of the "HMS Surprise" from the Jolly Rogers, but it did require some major surgery.  Model was a hit at the Northeast Ship modelers convention and show in New London, CT a few years ago.

I`ve got a few free weeks after the summer session of school ends in late July-I`m a returned adult student  going for a teaching degree, and I hope to do some serious model building then. I also got some infomation on how to post pictures . Maybe some day I`ll try  it, or give you a link to the clubs website where you can see some of my work-and the work of others. Until that time...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:08 AM

Squadron's listing of Heller ship kits ( http://www.squadron.com/SearchResults.asp?offset=20&comflag=N ) in fact includes (at the moment) quite a few of the company's better sailing ship offerings:  the Passat, Preussen, Victory, the two eighteenth-century 74-gun ships, and the Reale.  That's actually quite a list of good kits; about the only decent Heller sailing ships that I can remember (beware my notorious memory) that aren't included are the Gorch Fock and Amerigo Vespucci.  The Squadron list also includes, of course, a number of the old kits that are...well, something other than scale models.

It's been a long time since I've had a close-up look at any of those 1/150 latter-day German sailing merchantmen, but my recollection is that they're basically sound kits.  I think I bought the Pamir when it was new.  I recall being quite favorably impressed with the parts - with two relatively small reservations. 

One - the process of reducing an enormous ship like that to a plastic kit on such a small scale inevitably leads to some pretty big compromises with detail.  (Example:  the Jarvis brace winches.  Those machines are characteristic features of ships like that, and Heller did about as good a job of representing them in styrene as was practicable.  But they're barely recognizable).  Two - the Heller designers were notorious for their mistranslation of things they didn't quite understand into plastic parts.  In this case the big culprits, as I remember, are the "jackstay eyebolts" on the yards.  The designers had the idea of representing those fittings as little oblong blocks, to which pieces of wire could be cemented to represent the jackstays themselves.  Actually that's not such a bad idea; jackstays always present a problem on small scales.  But Heller put the "eyebolts" on the fronts of the yards, rather than the tops.  (Actually, on a "modern" steel ship like that each yard probably ought to have two jackstays - one on top and one 45 degrees forward of it.  The head of the sail is lashed to the latter; the former serves as the anchoring point for various pieces of rigging - and a handhold for the unfortunate souls who have to furl and loose the sail.)  A model with its jackstays on the fronts of its yards would look pretty silly.  But the basis for a serious scale model was certainly there.

It's interesting that the "Sirene" appears twice in the Squadron list, at different prices.  Apparently the differences are the inclusion of cement and paint - and, for some reason, a change in the background of the box art.  I think (I'm not a hundred percent sure) the kit labeled Golden Hind is in fact the grand old Revell one.  (Revell and Heller have had various sorts of relationships over the years; I remember seeing a Revell Flying Cloud in a Heller box once.   I have no idea what sort of agreement may exist between the two companies now.) 

I haven't seen a straightforward explanation of what's going on these days at Heller.  My impression as of a few years ago was that the firm had sold out to Airfix and/or gone out of business completely.  (Or that the British firm, Hornby, had taken over both companies.  There were all sorts of stories, many of them, I suspect, originating with people who simply didn't know what they were talking about.)  Now Heller seems to be in production again.  Does this mean the firm is under new management?  If so, is it physically located in France?  Or Britain? Or the U.S.?  Is Hornby in fact part of the Heller picture?  I guess it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of the universe, but I can't help being curious.

Bottom line:  in the tiny world of plastic sailing ship kits we probably ought to be grateful any time a decent old kit reappears on the market.  And my suggestion to anybody who wants any of those Heller ones is to grab them now; heaven only knows how long they'll be conveniently available.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.