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Heller HMS Victory build Photos

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 5, 2006 2:25 PM

Wink [;)]If you want to post your pictures, just send me them, I'll post them on my website.  I have 500 MB web space, just for HMS Victory pictures.  The website is new, and maybe not really attractive yet, but we must build some reference for future builders.  In the next days, I'll add links to reference material, in the next weeks, I'll write the history of the models of HMS Victory.  Please note, that my website is not commercial, it is just there to help, and provide information.  You can discuss the subject here, and post the pictures here :

http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/gallery.htm

Maybe you don't know me, but I am the guy in charge of the gallery on dry dock models.

Thank you.

Michel

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 5, 2006 2:15 PM

I hope this link works.  Please let me know if I have done this correctly.  Thx .

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?&mode=fromsite&collid=66065287707.91518884907.1136490738677&conn_speed=1

  • Member since
    October 2004
Posted by gleason on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 3:28 PM

Just a quick note to the 'new' folks in this thread.

Be sure to also checkout the HMS Victory Build thread at:

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/484192/ShowPost.aspx

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by cytorg on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 3:05 PM

At Shipmodeling.net is someone who recently finished Le Soleil Royal and did an outstanding job, he has some pics available from the site.  I just picked up the kit from someone in Canada but it'll be awhile before I get to it.  Hoping to get some instructions in English. I'm just now starting the Heller HMS Victory build with sub-assemblies like the cannons.  I just joined this forum and I've already picked up on some great tips.  Thanks!

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 2:52 PM
Has anyone seen the new HMS VICTORY : Famous Warships of the Royal Navy Series
by Iain Ballantyne?

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 2:51 PM
 MalcolmB wrote:

However, as you say, seldom do both ends of a line appear in the same diagramme and there is no detailed drawings whatsoever for the bowsprit.

I presume everyone has visited the official HMS Victory site and the Victory virtual tour. The latter virtual tour of the 'heads' shows blocks & rigging for the bowsprit.



Detailed drwings of Victory's bow sprit rigging can be found in HMS Victory : Her Construction, Career, and Restoration by A. P. McGowan, et al.


  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 12:44 PM

When I mentioned the problem of "both ends of lines not appearing in the same drawing," I was referring to the McKay and McGowen/McKay books.  Mr. McKay - one of the finest draftsmen working today - used some highly original techniques for illustrating the rigging with isometric views.  As pieces of the drafting art they're awe-inspiring, but from the modeler's standpoint they're a little hard to follow.

Mr. Campbell, in his drawings for the Longridge book, was considerably more traditional in his approach.  (At least it seems that way now.  When the book was published, back in the sixties, those beautiful perspective drawings of things like the maintop seemed mind-boggling.)  The big, foldout standing and running rigging plans show the bowsprit gear pretty clearly.  And if you dig through the text I think you'll find that Longridge gives good verbal descriptions of all the individual lines (bowsprit shrouds, martingale stays, jibboom guys, spritsail yard braces, etc.).  I personally find that approach - the actual description in words of how a line leads - most useful in rigging a model.  Even the best draftsman can only show so much in a diagram.

If you're planning on doing much of this sort of thing, another book you might consider acquiring is James Lees's The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1865.  That one contains more information about the subject than any ship modeler is ever likely to need.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 10:29 AM
 jtilley wrote:

I think, though, that the book I'd recommend as the most essential acquisition for anybody tackling the Heller kit is C. Nepean Longridge's The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships.  The drawings in that one are by another fine draftsman, the late George Campbell.  Though they perhaps aren't quite the tour de force of Mr. McKay's set, they are perhaps a bit easier to follow.  (Mr. McKay supplies some beautifully executed isometric views of the rigging - but both ends of a line rarely appear in the same drawing.)  The drawings in the Longridge book are a good bit more straightforward.  And the text includes verbal description of how each line leads - just the thing for modelers. 

Thanks!  I'll try to locate some of those sources, although I already have the Longridge book (1986 Xmas present!).  However, as you say, seldom do both ends of a line appear in the same diagramme and there is no detailed drawings whatsoever for the bowsprit.

I presume everyone has visited the official HMS Victory site and the Victory virtual tour. The latter virtual tour of the 'heads' shows blocks & rigging for the bowsprit.

http://www.hms-victory.com/

http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Heritage/1797/Victory/index2.html

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 9:55 AM
 MagicSteve wrote:

Chuck,

Very nice work.  I am currious about a few things.

How are the chains to be done.

What did you use for the hammock rail net.  I've used the plastic net that wedding decorations are made of on my boat, I thought it looked good till I saw your picture.

For the netting, I used regular nylon window screening cut at 45 degrees, and spray painted a light tan colour.  I think they look pretty good. I'll be sure to post some pics this week.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
Posted by dwtheriault on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 8:22 AM

 adouglas wrote:
Make that 4 for down under, I started about Feb this year and am just about ready to assemble the hulls. Have all the decks completed and most sub assemblies. Gleasons photo's are great, but I cheated with the stern using a felt tip pen to assit. looks good though.

Nearly all the cannons are completed, but I agree this is not a model for faint hearts or beginners. Allow plenty of time to acheive a really good job along with a lot of research as the instructions are marginal at the best.

Cheers
Cool [8D]

 

ADouglas,

I'm sure you've seen this already, but you might be interested in the Victory group build site, hosted over at http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/HOME_EN.htm

Dave

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
Posted by dwtheriault on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 8:20 AM

 Chuck Fan wrote:


Behind her is Heller's 1/100 Soleil Royal, also underconstruction for about 3 years.

Chuck Fan,

I, too, have both Heller models and they are both sitting in my garage waiting for me to finish my AL Constellation.  While the Heller Victory is getting some much needed advertising-face time with the new Victory group build (http://www.hmsvictoryscalemodels.be/HOME_EN.htm), there is virtually nothing about any builds of the Heller Le Soliel Royal on the web.  I see that you have made a lot of progress on your model and would appreciate some more build pics.  One of the reasons I love looking over the gallery at the Dry Dock Models web site (http://www.drydockmodels.com/) is the build pics of the models. 

Thanks again for posting your pics.

Dave

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 11:09 PM
 MagicSteve wrote:
....

How are the chains to be done.

What did you use for the hammock rail net.  I've used the plastic net that wedding decorations are made of on my boat, I thought it looked good till I saw your picture.

You have what looks like a spoon where the anchor will end up, what is it.

What sort of ship's boats does the kit lack?



I assume you are talking about the channel chains supporting the shrouds.   I threw out the model's plastic deadeyes, and used brass wire make the chains around the cast white metal 5/32" deadeyes from Blue Jacket Ship Crafters. (http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/fittings4.htm)  These have a groove around the edge, and it is easy to bent the wire around it in the right shape.   The lower links of the channel chains were also made of brass wire.   I did not solder the brass wire to close off each link.   The links hold their shapes well even without solder or glue.   The shround tension was also not a problem and did not tend to pull the chains apart.

I used Modelship Ways MS2828 netting for the hammock nets.   A sheet of 70mmX700mm netting cost $2.99, and just one sheet was enough to do all the hammock netting around the deck.  

I assume the spoon thing you mentioned is the silver thing stuck in the fore channel.   That is a cast white metal stropped deadeye from Blue Jacket Ship Crafters. (http://www.bluejacketinc.com/fittings/fittings5.htm)   I originally intended to use these for the shrounds, but their stropping is too thick and too long.   I used the unstropped deadeyes instead, making my own stropping and chain for them.

The official boat complement of a British ship of the line at around 1800 consist of 6 boats - 1. a widebeamed, carvel built, plain launch for heavy work duty, 2. a long, slender, elegantly decorated carvel built barg for official use by the senior officer aboard,  3. a slighly smaller and less elegantly decorated pinnace, usually carvel built, for routine use by all officers aboard, 4. two plain clincker built ong cutter with 6-8 oars aside for lighter work duty and for cutting out expeditions,  5. one plain clincker built shortcutter with 2-3 oars aside for even lighter work duty, Sometimes called a Jollyboat.  

The exact mix and lengthes of the boats carried by Victory is not known as this varys from ship to ship and from year to year.   But majority of sources suggest it was something like this:

1X34 foot launch
1X32 foot barge
2X30 foot long cutters
1X28 foot pinnace
and 1X18 foot short cutter

Normally, the Victory would have stowed the launch, the barge, the pinnace and the short cutter on the boom across the midship well, and suspended the 2 long cutters from the davits outside the poop deck.   There is also a stern davit which Heller overlooked.   Usually the stern davit is left empty.  But sometimes an extra, 7 th boat might be carried on it as well.

Heller's Victory comes with just 3 boats.  The largest one scales out to about 34 feet, which is right for Victory's launch.  But the hull shape is totally wrong.   The launch is a heavy, thickset, broadbeamed boat equipped with an onboard windlass and a davit capable of lifting the ship's anchor.  It is certainly not the relatively long, slander boat offered.     The second largest scale out to about 31 feet, which is close to the barge's 32 feet.   The resemblence between the shape of the barge and the shape of Heller's boat is reasonable, except for the stern.   Except for the Launch, all British boats feature a stern that tappers to a small, declicate transom, not the broad, heavy transom offered by heller.    The smallest boat offered by Heller scales out to about 25 feet.   It's wide, squat shape does not resemble anything carried by the Victory.  
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 10:54 PM

Malcolm B - In order to do a decent job on the rigging of the Heller Victory you really need to get hold of a set of decent rigging diagrams.  The ones in the kit are hopeless.  The people responsible for them simply didn't understand how rigging works.  (They made that clear when they provided no means of attaching the yards to the masts.  That has to be one of the sillier features of any scale model kit on the market - and pretty scandalous in one that expensive.)

Several good sets of plans for the Victory have appeared over the years.  The drawings in John McKay's Anatomy of the Ship:  The 100-Gun Ship Victory are superb.  So are the ones the same artist drew for the book he co-authored with Alan McGowen, H.M.S. Victory:  Construction, Restoration, and Repair.  (I may have garbled the title a little.)  The second book actually contains more in the way of rigging drawings than the first.

I think, though, that the book I'd recommend as the most essential acquisition for anybody tackling the Heller kit is C. Nepean Longridge's The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships.  The drawings in that one are by another fine draftsman, the late George Campbell.  Though they perhaps aren't quite the tour de force of Mr. McKay's set, they are perhaps a bit easier to follow.  (Mr. McKay supplies some beautifully executed isometric views of the rigging - but both ends of a line rarely appear in the same drawing.)  The drawings in the Longridge book are a good bit more straightforward.  And the text includes verbal description of how each line leads - just the thing for modelers. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 10:31 PM
 MalcolmB wrote:

...I note the railing posts in your pics have small eyelets for accommodating the railing lines.  My kit does not have these (although my kit is 23 years old).  Is this the way the kit was when you purchased, or did you add this bit of detail yourself?

Cheers,

Malcolm


I added them myself.  I replaced the plastic rail stanchions and hammock crains that came with the kit with ones I fashioned out the model railroad handrail set from Atheann Trains in Minuature.   These hve an eye on the top and are made of soft lead and very easy to work with just a small plier.   But they are much more resistent to damage then the kit's plastic stanchions.  They also look much better and is more accurately shaped.



  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by MagicSteve on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 8:12 PM

Chuck,

Very nice work.  I am currious about a few things.

How are the chains to be done.

What did you use for the hammock rail net.  I've used the plastic net that wedding decorations are made of on my boat, I thought it looked good till I saw your picture.

You have what looks like a spoon where the anchor will end up, what is it.

What sort of ship's boats does the kit lack?

instead of grog try Negus which is:

1 pt med. dry Sherry or Port
1pt boiling water
whole nutmeg
2 tbl spns sugar
lemon juice and grated zest
 
Quite nice
 
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:54 PM

Help!  Bowsprit rigging: I would welcome any pics of the bowsprit rigging for the Victory as I find the Heller instructions sadly lacking in this area and the drawings are too small to properly decipher. Particularly with the two bowsprit spars, it's not clear how/where the pulleys & blocks are rigged.

TIP for gluing cannon on lower gun decks:  For others who have not yet assembled the two halves of the hull, here is a tip.  For the lower gun decks, I recommend gluing the cannon in place using a small amount of 2 part epoxy.  The reason is that should any of the cannon become unstuck during the build process, they are extremely hard to fish back into place once the hull is together.  With all of the manipulation of the hull that will take place as the kit comes together, it is quite likely that some may pop free.

TIP for bowsprit:  The outer most extension of the bowsprit is very flimsy and will not withstand much rigging tension (mine actually broke off).  My local hobby shop has carbon fibre rods of various diameters which can be sanded to a taper -- place in chuck of electric drill and run sand paper up and down until desired taper is achieved) -- and glued in place using small am't of epoxy.  I also used carbon rod inside the upper main mast to increase rigidity -- in place of brass as suggested in an earlier post.

Cheers,

Malcolm

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:36 PM

Awesome photos of your kit.  I note the railing posts in your pics have small eyelets for accommodating the railing lines.  My kit does not have these (although my kit is 23 years old).  Is this the way the kit was when you purchased, or did you add this bit of detail yourself?

Cheers,

Malcolm

  • Member since
    October 2004
Posted by gleason on Saturday, December 31, 2005 6:26 PM

Thanks...

No, I did not use a brass rod for the mast.

I think it is strong enough as is for rigging.  I just have to be 'careful'  !  :)

<Gleason>

Fargo, ND

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:25 AM



Some progress photos of my heller 1/100 Victory.   It's been under construction on and off for about 3 years.  The pictures were taken some time ago, since then much rigging have been added.  The hull contains scratch built interior details on all gun decks.  It also has a scratch built orlop deck and cable tier.

I choose to show her with her normal cabin partitions struck down, and her gun decks cleared fore and aft.   However I hesitate to say I am depicting her cleared for action.   The reason is the stern and quarter gallery windows.   I never found any reference of what is done with the windows when the ship is cleared for action.   The windows are designed in such a way so they can be unclipped from their frames and removed.    It seems sensible to remove the large expense of shrapnel generating glass when the ship is about to head into action.    But I have found no evidence about whether this was actually done.   Nor do I know, if the windows were removed, what is done with the gapping open holes.  Do they ship deadlights, or do they just leave the window holes yawning open?   I depcited her with all windows in place and glazed.

Behind her is Heller's 1/100 Soleil Royal, also underconstruction for about 3 years.
There were some cross fertilization between the two.   For example the Victory's launch is really a heavily modified small chaloupe from the Soleil Royal.   The boats supplied by Heller for the Victory is too few in number (3, real Victory carried at least 6), and beared no relation to the shape of any real boat that might have been carried by the Victory.    Soleil Royal's small chaloup, on the other hand, matched the Victory's 34 foot carvel built launch closely in shape and size.   I am currently attempting to build Victory's 3 clinker built cutters using plank on frame method, using stryene strips.   














  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Friday, December 30, 2005 5:02 PM

Gleason

I like what you did on your deck.Whether its historical or not.Nice detailing.For your mast did you put a brass rod inside for strength?Your build is inspiring me to get my Victory out and build with you guys I've got one more day to think about it.heh heh heh.

Rod

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, December 30, 2005 2:32 PM

I've been reading about "snow-white decks" for years, but I have my doubts.  No restored ship I've ever been on board has had deck planking that's anywhere near white.  That fact, of course, isn't conclusive; restored ships don't get the same maintenance they did when they were in service.  (Also, in most cases the deck planking has been replaced - often with a non-authentic species.) 

Contemporary paintings by reliable marine artists rarely show deck planking in any helpful way.  When deck planking is visible in such paintings it's generally shown as a pale beige, but there are plenty of variations. 

I guess the only way to get really decisive evidence on this point would be to find a genuine holystone (I have no idea where), build a section of deck out of authentic wood, and spend an hour or so every morning for a few weeks hosing it off (preferably with saltwater) and holystoning it.  The individual who does that will have my enthusiastic support.

I do agree that modelers frequently tend to make deck planking darker than the real thing.  (One of my few criticisms of the movie "Master and Commander" was that the ship's decks were too dark.  I suspect they were made of pressure-treated pine.)  Real decks generally don't actually have much brown in them, either; the combination of sun, saltwater, and being stomped on has bleached most of it out.  My preference is for a pale grey with just a hint of beige.  As a matter of fact the background color for these Forum pages (at least on my monitor) looks pretty much like deck planking - though probably a little on the dark side for a well-maintained ship.  The PolyScale line of model railroad paints includes a color called "weathered concrete" that, to my eye, looks about right.

One of my other pet peeves is overly-wide, pure black "caulking."  The typical seam between two deck planks is half an inch wide or thereabouts.  (The reason it's even that wide is that the edges of the planks are either chamfered or rabbeted.  We've discussed this elsewhere in the Forum.)  On typical model scales that's mighty thin - certainly thinner than the grooves on the basswood "scribed decking" sheets the wood kit manufacturers sell.  And the caulking itself is no more black than the asphalt on a street. 

The most successful deck planking I've come up with so far is made of holly veneer.  Holly is almost pure white, and has an extremely fine grain that actually looks like miniaturized wood.  I started by running a fairly soft pencil around all four edges of each plank, thereby ensuring that the plank would be surrounded by a grey line that would survive all sanding, scraping, etc.  For a finish I applied a thin coat of "Driftwood" colored wood stain, manufactured by Olympic Paints.  (Minwax used to make a "Driftwood" that I liked even better, but it seems to have been discontinued.)  I like to finish off the process with a coat of white shellac, dilluted almost beyond recognition with denatured alcohol.  The shellac settles the grain (not much of a problem with holly in any case) and, without adding any gloss, provides remarkably effective protection from paint spills, dirt, etc. that otherwise might get rubbed into the wood during the rest of the construction process.

I also think there's quite a bit of room here (as in so many aspects of sailing ship modeling) for artistic license and taste.  If you like a darker color for deck planking, you can always explain to observers that the ship's just been through a rain storm.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Friday, December 30, 2005 1:53 AM
I just want to point out that making Victory's deck a nice, award winning wooden color and texture may look impressive, but it is not historically realistic.    Numerous historic accounts say the deck of Royal Navy wooden ships were almost white.    This is caused by the RN tradition of making the crew wash and scrub all decks every morning with bible sized pumice stones called holy stones.   The stones leaves a milky white stone powder, which are then grounded into the wood, giving the deck a light gray, almost white color. 

In fact, RN was very pround of the whiteness of their ship's decks, takes the white deck as evidence of a ship's cleanliness, and frequently contrasts the white deck of the British warships with the natural wooden color of French and Spanish ships and uses it indication of the unsanitary conditions on the French and Spanish ship.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:23 PM
Gleason,

Your Victory looks fantastic. I look forward to seeing more photos.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:58 PM
great job
  • Member since
    October 2004
Posted by gleason on Monday, December 26, 2005 10:36 PM

Just a quick note...

I added 4 new photos to my photo log.

http://kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=yxhxisj.8noyhnn&x=0&y=jn324h

I will add all these photos and any new ones to the HMS Victory group build 2006 website

in 2006.

[ see the HMS Victory group build 2006 discussion in the Ship Forum ]

Any and all comments welcome!!!

Thanks.

<Gleason>

Fargo, ND

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 3, 2005 1:56 PM
Re: the decking treatment, I did more or less the same as Gleason. First I painted all of the decking black. Then I painted them wiht a light brown teak colour. I then sanded the decks lightly to reveal the black on the riased grain that is molded into the platic. I then scribed between the planks lightly with a pin to further reveal the black. I'll post some photos as soon as I can.
  • Member since
    October 2004
Posted by gleason on Thursday, November 3, 2005 8:29 AM
Hi!

I painted the decks with two thin coats of MM 4673 Wood Acyrl. Each coat was painted from bow to stern. After each coat, I lightly brushed it going from
stern to bow.

After the last coat was applied, I scribed each line between the planks with the
tip end of a fine metal file.

After the lines were scribed, I filled in the scribed lines with 0.5 mm lead, and
then brushed the lead with a bristle brush.

Hope this helps you out. If not, let me know.

Thanks.

<Gleason>


QUOTE: Originally posted by danamr

How did you do your deck? I am about to start my Victory, and love the effect that you came up with.
  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by geek on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 11:41 PM
How did you do your deck? I am about to start my Victory, and love the effect that you came up with.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 2, 2005 10:10 PM
Hi Guys,
I am new to this forum, but not to the Heller HMS Victory kit. I bought my kit in 1982 - and I'm still not finished! However, I took about a 20 year hiatus owing to a busy travel schedule and raising children. Having just passed the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar, I am motivated to get back to work on my kit. I pretty much finished the hull back about 1992 and am now ready to dig into the rigging. I'll gladly share some photos -- can someone suggest the best way to upload these. I can show detail on the stern which turned our pretty good --- of course my eye sight was better back then too! Thanks to Gleason for his photos - all those canon sure bring back memories. I rememeber painting all my canon by hand and then rubbing ground up pencil graphite on the high spots for that metallic look. I'm in Canada. Cheers!
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Australia
Posted by adouglas on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 12:40 AM
Make that 4 for down under, I started about Feb this year and am just about ready to assemble the hulls. Have all the decks completed and most sub assemblies. Gleasons photo's are great, but I cheated with the stern using a felt tip pen to assit. looks good though.

Nearly all the cannons are completed, but I agree this is not a model for faint hearts or beginners. Allow plenty of time to acheive a really good job along with a lot of research as the instructions are marginal at the best.

Cheers
Cool [8D]
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