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Update: Jolly Roger (finished 1-2-06)

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Update: Jolly Roger (finished 1-2-06)
Posted by Donnie on Monday, December 12, 2005 8:35 PM
Edit: adding note 12/25/2005 11:30pm CST:
I had a chance to try my hand at making one sail up tied to the mast. I used tissue paper. Rolled it up tight, twisted it... and just done my best at it. I am basically happy with it. I am sure that it does not compare to others great work here- but having fun still !



Edit - adding note 12/23/05  3:20pm CST:
Well, I have progressed with Rigging and some of this I am ok with I guess and some of it are mistakes. I had misplaced some of my blocks, so I know that I might have used the wrong blocks for some of it. But, then again, this is my first classic ship since about 28 to 30 years ago. Now I am 48. I have enjoyed this and I was not looking forward to the Rigging, but it has turned out to be fun as well !

More Pictures added for your enjoyment !

Edit - adding note:
I am at stage now of addding rigging. I am going to have problems with this and I do not have a clue as to where to run the lines. I am rigging this "without" sails down. I will rig it with the sails tied up to the yards. I know that I have the cleats and the belaying pins, but I have no clue as to what rigging goes to the cleats and what goes to belaying pins. Are the belaying pins only if you are using sails down ?


These are pics of my La Flore or Jolly Roger so far. I have started on the mast and need to take pics of that as well. Thank you everyone for your inspiration - it is here that encouraged me to build a boat. I have not put a plastic model together since I was a kid. I am now 48. I have had alot of fun with this one.






















In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Monday, December 12, 2005 8:49 PM
That's the main thing, have fun! And this is a nice looking ship so far. Maybe I should put this B-25 that's giving me fits away for awhile and head down to the hobby shop ...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:27 AM

Hey that's great. It looks like you are really getting into this.

Good work on the little details. How you keep your han so steady however eludes me.

Robert

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:27 AM

Sweet !  Hey, that looks fantastic...really great job !

                 greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:34 AM
Thanks everyone for your nice completments !
I think I just brace my elbow on table - use a fine brush and hold my breath !
Getting those Ratline are done now - man that was tough part

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:48 PM

Donnie

Nice job everything is looking real good. wait till you get to the rigging.Thats when it really starts looking like a ship. Keep posting pic's.

Rod

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, December 16, 2005 5:12 AM

  Well, the modeling hobby has been lacking a superb builder for all of these years !  That is looking mighty fine, sir !  What I know about rigging could be printed onto a used tea bag cover, so I will leave that bit to the experts here...but no matter what, that is going to be a beautiful ship.

                       greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, December 16, 2005 9:47 AM
Well, thank you very much for the compliments, but the truth is this: their are people here that are much better at this than I am. I can probably write as much about rigging on a match box !

The last page of the instuctions give a layout that is not only hard to read, but hard to interpret. So I am basically on my own trying to figure out my rigging.

All I know is this: I want my sails to be furled (did I spell this right) and I am going to get some silky cloth I guess to roll my sails up. I know that I am making the seasoned modler cringe here, but I am sorry, I am at at loss about rigging this thing.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, December 16, 2005 3:03 PM
  For furled sails, you can get really great results by using ....tissue paper.  Not the kind that comes on a roll, but the girly stuff you find at Michael's and other craft stores...wad it up a bunch, then smooth it out.  I use the vac forms from the kit to serve as male molds.  Place the tissue paper on top of the sail, cut over large, and dampen with a spray bottle.  Wait overnight, then trim the tissue to fit...now it can be rolled up easily ! Viola!
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, December 16, 2005 4:36 PM
Thats sound great. I think I can do that Smile [:)]

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, December 16, 2005 8:21 PM

Looks great so far.  Hard to believe it's a first effort.  I really like that old Lindberg kit; it's one of the better detailed ones, for its size and age, on the market.

In one of the other threads you started we discussed some good starter books that deal with rigging.  The Mondfeld and Campbell books - especially the latter - will get you on the right track.  Rigging isn't the form of witchcraft some people tend to think.  It's actually a series of fairly straightforward systems, repeated and stacked on top of each other.  The basic principles are quite simple.

I'll echo a suggestion that's already been made:  if this is your first attempt at rigging a sailing ship, don't feel obligated to include every single line that was on the original.  Start with the standing rigging - the black (or very dark brown) stuff that holds up the masts.  Then move on to the more basic running rigging - the lighter brown stuff that holds up the yards and makes them swing.  When you've gotten that far, you'll have a model that represents a ship that's been at anchor for some time, with her sail gear stowed away.  Ask yourself if that's enough.  Lots of people think it is.

We've had a good running discussion of furled sails in another thread, headed "Real cloth sails?"  I've just moved it to p. 1; it should appear just below this one.

Since you've just started setting up the masts and yards, I'll take the liberty of offering one other suggestion.  (I wouldn't do it if you'd already installed any of the rigging on the yards.)  When a square-rigged ship's sails are set and furled, the yards (except the lowest one on each mast) are raised and lowered.  Since the kit was designed to be fitted with those gawdawful vac-formed plastic "sails," the instructions show the yards in the raised positions.  In a ship with furled sails, or no sails, the yards would be lowered.  (This is covered in that other post - and in the books.)  I don't remember how the yards are fastened to the masts in this particular kit, but at this early stage of construction it should be easy to move the yards to their lowered positions.  In the eyes of ship buffs, they'll look much better that way.

The sail plan and rigging of this ship are pretty similar in most respects to those of the Continental frigate Hancock, which dates from just about the same time.  Here's a link to some photos of a model of her that I built:  http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/hancock

You can see what I mean about the lowered yards.

This is going to be a mighty handsome model.  Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Friday, December 16, 2005 9:01 PM
Very nice, I hope when I start my Wappen von Hapsburg aka Captain Kidd in a couple months, it will look as good as your Jolly Roger.  I can't wait to see the rigging and furled sails!

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 16, 2005 10:02 PM

Donnie,

Yu are moving along just nicely.

Here is a website that may be of some help until some books arrive

http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/square-rigging.html

It's basic, but it does help. Well at least for me it did.

Robert

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, December 17, 2005 1:37 PM
Looks really good.  I can't wait to see rigged and with sails.

Scott

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, December 23, 2005 2:50 PM
I got some pics with Rigging coming up this afternoon

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, December 23, 2005 3:41 PM

  Looking very, very good !!  Isn't it amazing how the ship transforms from a hunk of plastic into a thing of beauty with the addition of some waxed string?

   Hats off !  Merry Christmas all !

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Friday, December 23, 2005 4:05 PM
Donnie, I really like your work. Keep going slow, and your model is going to turn into a real beauty! I'm sure you'll find plenty of advice in the forum. I plan to build a Jolly Roger "pirate" ship by mid 2006, but after seing you're pictures, I think I'm going to start earlier than thought! Thanks for sharing those pictures, really. I'm all exited now...
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, December 26, 2005 7:56 AM
   Sweet !!!  Looking really, really great there, Donnie ! 
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 26, 2005 8:41 AM

In response to the query just added to one of the first posts in this thread - A belaying pin is a simple gadget used to secure ("belay") the end of a piece of running rigging in such a way that it can be cast off in a hurry.  It consists of a round piece of wood or iron with a step turned in it.  It's shoved through a hole  in a board (the pinrail) that's secured to the inside of the ship's bulwark (or to a mast, or mounted on pedestals, or in some other way made a permanent part of the ship).  The line is wound around the belaying pin in a figure eight.  When it comes time to cast the line loose, a sailor yanks the pin out of the rail.

Belaying pins are used for lots of running rigging lines - some related directly to the sails, some not.  The number of lines belayed to pins (as opposed to cleats or other fittings) varied from time to time.  Generally speaking the belaying pin seems to have become more common over the centuries.  A mid-nineteenth-century clipper ship might have close to a couple of hundred belaying pins, arranged in long rows on pinrails that ran the length of the ship's bulwarks.  Eighteenth-century ships didn't have as many of them.

One of the recurring problems that ship modelers have is figuring out where to belay all the lines.  In a fully-rigged ship model there are hundreds of them.  Various books contain "typical belaying point plans," but the truth of the matter is that nobody's really sure where every line of, for example, an eighteenth-century frigate was actually belayed.

My suggestion to newcomers is:  don't lose sleep over this.  Donnie - your model looks outstanding.  So far it looks like you're making some good decisions about which lines to include and which ones to omit.  If you include the braces, lifts, and a few other pieces of running rigging, and belay them in places that make sense, you'll have a nice-looking finished product - and, without your being aware of it, your fingers will get trained to do a more detailed rigging job (if you want to) on the next one.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:03 AM

Donnie,

She is coming around nicely. Good job!!

I would like to make 1 comment. I feel that it is easier to keep track of your progress if you just add a new comment to the end of the running thread that to continually update your first post. I am not sure if others feel this way, but for me, I can see your build, followed by comments, more build photos, more comments. This makes the thread more "natural" in my opinion. Anyway, I will continue to follow your great progress.

 

Robert

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:20 AM
Here are some pics that I made showing the progression of how I made the sail out of gift tissue wrapping paper.  I would say that it was somewhat difficult or a liitle more involved in getting this one on and done as compared to just rigging up a yard. I am kinda like this; once it is done I hate going back and redoing something. However, I will spend a considerable amount of time trying to get it right the first time (if there is a right).  My tissue paper tore on the first one, so I had to start again. Oh well, thats the way it goes.
Thanks for tuning in and watching !
Donnie
PS. I forgot to add that yes the sail is twisted very tightly, then after I put it on, then I will slowly take my finger and untwist the sail to make it look puffy. I know that puffy is not a nautical term, Clown [:o)] but everyone gets the point ! I did use glue (just a tad) to tack the string onto the top of sail. The bottom of sail the string is running all the way thru as I also tacked teh end of each string with a tad of glue as well and gently rolled a small end of tissue to "hide" the string.







In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:52 PM
More images
Donnie





In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:03 PM
Forgot these too.
I am wondering if any of these are helping anyone ? (I hope so - enjoy !)





In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:40 AM

  Nice spiderwebs!  That ship is looking really great.

 

     

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:31 AM
Those photos are helping a lot, thanks!

Your sails look good. They're not tight like they would be in port; they have a more dynamic look to them.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:37 PM
Some more pics - pics don't look that great, but wanted to put something up real quick for those that might be following this.









Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, January 2, 2006 10:15 PM
Some final pics






Notes:
Its was fun building this ship as the first one from along time ago (like Big Ole Bob). I think this kit is excellent for those wanting to get back involved becuase I made mistakes on this one and was able to correct some things.  I was able to modify and do what ever I wanted to this one and experiement. It wasn't until the end or in the middle that I discovered some things that I should have done differently. Like using bees wax on string.

If you notice that I cut the ends of the ratlines and added my own stringed version. That is becuase the end of the Ratlines that go into the little holes, they kept breaking off. So I added the string to add realism and mostly to get rid of the highly brittle ratline ends.

These are the only pics that I have so far. I am sure that I can post some more. BUt I figure that you all are getting tired of my La Flore (Jolly Roger postings)

Thanks for all the help that this forum gave me. There are numerous people here that helped me and you know who you are and I am afraid to point out those in fear of forgetting someone.

Well, on to my next project which I have no idea what to do. I think I might build another small one to work at my skills.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 7:41 AM

  Donnie, a fantastic ship from a pile of plastic !  I am sure we are all happy to have skilled hands back into the modeling hobby, and can't wait to see what you tackle next.

   Did the same thing with my ratlines, but used sprue...it's a learning experience, right? LOL...

   Doubt that any of us became bored with your updates, I know they sure were/are usefull to me !

            cheers on a success!

                        greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:56 PM

Donnie

Nice job.Good looking model. Thanks for all the post. I really enjoyed your build.Now put that baby under glass.

Rod

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 2:13 PM
Donnie:

Out of curiosity, what is the color you used on the upper hull? The lighter color, I mean? I like your color scheme. It is quite becoming. I think it fits the time period very well.

Russ


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