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Revell Viking ship nearing completion

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  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:15 PM

A very nice build (and no kit either !). Very nice sentiments for this build as well. My compliments,

Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

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  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by vonBerlichingen on Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:38 PM

Here are two more sources of 28mm 'scale' Vikings:

Crusader:

http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/list.php?cat=4&sub=14&page=1

[Also available in the USA from: http://www.crusaderminiaturesusa.com/ ]

Artizan:

http://www.artizandesigns.com/catalogue.asp?sub_range=7

I recall that at least three manufacturers also produce rowing and otherwise working Viking crew, which can be obtained separately from their cast resin Viking ships (which are simplified gaming pieces rather than proper models).

The crew may not be listed separately, but the manufacturers tend to be small operations, so one can always ask nicely by e-mail, and they will probably be willing to sell an ad hoc crew pack or two.

Gripping Beast:

http://www.grippingbeast.com/webpage.php?PageID=50

http://www.grippingbeast.com/product.php?ItemID=369

Redoubt:

http://www.redoubtenterprises.com/shop/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=2023&category_id=dc6a966de7e332d2ba664c06d3847597

Old Glory (a bigger company, known for variable quality and somewhat odd poses, but generally cheaper than the rest):

http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SVS%2D12&cat=389

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:38 AM

Grem -  Having struggled through college in a second-hand VW Old Beetle, I have to echo your sentiments.  I started getting fed up with mine after the heater (which, as any old VW owner will remember, had two settings:  on and off) melted my briefcase.

That link seems to work fine now; don't know what the problem was earlier.  Fascinating information that will repay careful examination.  Many thanks.

Reklein - your "model funeral" pictures are giving me a sense of deja vu.  Haven't I seen them somewhere else on the web?  It's a terrific idea and a marvelous way to say goodbye to a friend. 

Some years ago my wife and I took my stepdaughter on a trip to London.  We visited the boating lake at Regent's Park (anybody who's been to that great city will smile with recognition), and I distinguished myself by falling in.  My wife, my stepdaughter, and everybody who was in sight, including the geese and the coots, agree that this was the most memorable moment of the trip.  (Thank goodness it's only about three feet deep.)  I've told my wife that when I go I want her to put my ashes in a ship model, set fire to it, and shove it out into the middle of the Regent's Park boating lake.  She says she has her doubts about what the British police may think of that idea; I say if she works fast they won't be able to stop her.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Lewiston ID
Posted by reklein on Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:52 AM
Yeah,I had pics up over at MSW. That was a two week build and the reason for building was unusual enough that I will remember it for a long time.I was invited to the wake and the people were raelly nice and it was a great party. The big question was "aren't you sad to see it burned?" The answer was "naww, I kept that it mind when I built it". The thing of it was when I saw how those european and russian guys built their wooden ones over on MSW I got the bug to build another one. Unfortunately I don't have the skills yet to do the planking job it requires. Really gives one a sense of awe at the skills the 8th century woodworkers had.Not just anybody can build something like that. Although there's a few really clever folks out there who ccould probably figure it out.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:32 AM

Anybody thinking about building a model of one of these ships from scratch should think carefully about the following.

The hull planks are individually shaped.  Those below the turn of the bilge are adzed out of the logs in such a way as to leave pairs of little, wedge-shaped "cleats" standing proud of the inboard surface, carefully located to correspond with the ribs.  Each cleat has a hole drilled through it, and the holes line up with holes in the ribs.  The ribs and the planks below the turn of the bilge are tied together with tree roots.  The ribs are not fastened to the keel.

All the planks (above and below the turn of the bilge) are fastened to each other by hundreds of small iron rivets, about a centimeter in diameter, shoved through pre-drilled holes about 7" apart and riveted inboard over square iron washers (or "rooves").  The garboard (lowest) planks are nailed to the keel in a similar fashion.  The planks above the turn of the bilge are riveted to the ribs.  (Each rib has an upper and lower section, the upper one being considerably lighter).  Near the bow and stern, where it was impossible to swing a hammer inboard, the heads of the rivets are inboard and the rooves are outboard.  (I've been thinking vaguely about using Grandt Line "nut and washer" castings to represent the rooves and the ends of the rivets, but I'm not sure my bank balance could stand it.  There are an awful lot of those little guys.) 

The fastenings - or absence thereof - apparently are key to the fabled flexibility of the overall hull.  The captain of the replica that sailed across the Atlantic in 1893 reported that the ends of the keel flexed up and down about three inches and the gunwales twisted about six inches, but the ship didn't leak.

Oh - and most of the hull planks are about an inch thick (less than 1/32" on 1/48 scale), and their lower edges are rabbeted so the "steps" between them almost (but not quite) fade out at the bow and stern.  The ship was so light that the crew could haul it (very carefully, we may assume) out of the water and onto a beach for the night.

I'll never have the ability to reproduce such a work of genius and art on even as large a scale as 1/48 - let alone the 1/60 of the Revell kit.  It's worth noting that those Russian models illustrated on the MSW site are enormous.  My hat is off to the builders of those models - and I'm in awe of the people who built the real ships.  But I'll stick with the Revell kit.  Its hull halves obviously are way too thick, but the design of them is clever enough that the discrepancy isn't noticeable.  

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 12:24 PM

Good news!  The Viking ship has reappeared on the website of Revell Europe!

I suppose it would be unrealistic to hope that this Forum actually had some impact on the corporate decision-making process.  But whatever the reason, the reappearance of that kit is a boost to the hobby.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:26 PM

Er, John, I don't want to rain on your parade but it never disappeared from the Revell 2008 catalogue (European issue that is) Big Smile [:D]. I am glad that this fact is reason for great rejoicing though and it is a very enjoyable model to build so........................ Go for it My 2 cents [2c]

cheers,

Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:53 PM

I haven't seen a printed (or, as they say nowadays, "hard-copy") Revell catalog -either American or European - in years.  The Viking ship kit was listed in the Revell Germany (or, as the company now seems to be calling itself, Revell Europe) "online catalog" sometime prior to November, 2007.  That's when I bought the one I gave my grandson for Christmas.  I honestly don't remember whether it ever got officially re-released by U.S. Revell; I can't recall having seen it in an American box. 

As of February 23, 2008, it was gone from both the American and European "online catalogs."  (Squadron Mail Order, and various other sources, started listing it as "out of stock" at about that same time - and I did a post commenting on the fact.  Squadron had always listed it as a "Revell Germany" kit; maybe the reissue never was in the U.S. range.)  I don't know when it reappeared on the Revell Europe website, but it most definitely was gone from it for at least a month.

I have no idea how Revell Europe (or, for that matter, any other kit manufacturer) maintains its website.  I suppose it's possible that the management temporarily removes pictures and listings from the website if stocks of a particular kit are temporarily exhausted. That seems like an odd way to do business, but maybe it's what happened here. 

Bottom line:  this is a good kit - for a variety of customers, ranging from outright beginners to serious Viking ship enthusiasts.  We should be glad that it's back.  And positive developments are so rare in this phase of the hobby that each of them needs to be regarded as a rather important event.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Friday, April 4, 2008 9:59 AM
 jtilley wrote:

Bottom line:  this is a good kit - for a variety of customers, ranging from outright beginners to serious Viking ship enthusiasts.  We should be glad that it's back.  And positive developments are so rare in this phase of the hobby that each of them needs to be regarded as a rather important event.

Best verdict you said professor Smile [:)] Now it's the turn of Yacht America and the cruising sloop Wanderlust to reappear on the lists again Wink [;)]

Just my My 2 cents [2c]

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Saturday, April 5, 2008 12:24 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/vikingvoyage/index.shtml

One last dollop of long ship information.

cheers, Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:05 PM

Apparently Revell Europe is in fact shipping the kit again.  Squadron Mail Order now lists it as being in stock.

The ways of kit manufacturers are beyond comprehension.  Just why did that kit disappear from the web catalog - for just a few weeks?  And why did it come back?  Did this Forum - or any other input from the modeling community - have anything to do with the phenomenon?  About the only thing we can be sure of is that Revell won't tell us.  So I guess we should just be glad that such a fine kit is back on the market, and leave it at that.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by RALPH G WILLIAMS on Saturday, April 12, 2008 3:49 PM

Due to input from our community, Revell produced a limited run of ship models to test the market. With the brisk movement of test inventory , Revell has produced a second run of ship models.

 This was told to me by my LHS owner. He does talk to lots of company reps., so it could well be correct information. Don't know for a fact.

I would guess it saves Revell a great deal of money to reintroduce an older model with no new design costs to figure into the profit margin.

With this kit you can produce a really great looking classic ship without the challenge of extensive rigging. It's also a ship that any modeler , and a most of the general public, will recognize.  It's a wonderful model for first time builders. As Dr.Tilley advises, "a simple ship or boat on a large scale".  These are all positive selling points. In any case , Revell decided the reintroduction of this model was a good risk.

Other older ship models could be just as well designed , but low demand means no production. It's just business.

I plan to have my Viking Ship next week. It's good to see this model return , if only for a short time.

rg

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, April 14, 2008 3:02 AM
Mr. Williams's explanation makes as much sense as anything else.  Grab 'em while you can get 'em, folks.  There's just no telling how long they'll be available.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, April 14, 2008 4:56 AM
 RALPH G WILLIAMS wrote:

Due to input from our community, Revell produced a limited run of ship models to test the market. With the brisk movement of test inventory , Revell has produced a second run of ship models.

 This was told to me by my LHS owner. He does talk to lots of company reps., so it could well be correct information. Don't know for a fact.

I would guess it saves Revell a great deal of money to reintroduce an older model with no new design costs to figure into the profit margin.

With this kit you can produce a really great looking classic ship without the challenge of extensive rigging. It's also a ship that any modeler , and a most of the general public, will recognize.  It's a wonderful model for first time builders. As Dr.Tilley advises, "a simple ship or boat on a large scale".  These are all positive selling points. In any case , Revell decided the reintroduction of this model was a good risk.

Other older ship models could be just as well designed , but low demand means no production. It's just business.

I plan to have my Viking Ship next week. It's good to see this model return , if only for a short time.

rg

Mr. Williams, did you also learn which models are included to this lot ? I think the magnificent 1/56 model of Yacht America is an equally attractive kit for both beginners and experts alike. A most elegant shape, good detail, big size and few parts with simple rigging makes this kit also a well tought marketing risk.

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by RALPH G WILLIAMS on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:18 PM

Kapudan_emir_effendi ,

The Yacht America , 1851 , is quite an attractive ship with a very interesting history.

I don't have any information about the possible reintroduction of this model. I like the idea of building an historical ship of this kind . The first yacht to win the America Cup Race would be a good change of pace from the very nice , but often posted war ship models. I think the Revell model is about two feet long and quite tall. If you have limited shelf space , as is the case with many of us, the size of the completed kit could be a factor that would limit it's demand.

 

rg

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 9:50 AM

Bad news:  The Viking ship has vanished from the Revell Europe website again.

Squadron Mail Order still lists it:  http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=RG5403

Given previous experience, it may turn up on the Revell Europe website again tomorrow.  But we have here yet another demonstration of why plastic sailing ship enthusiasts are well advised to grab 'em when you can get 'em.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:23 AM

Just to support everyone else's comments . . . WOW!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:29 AM

One more comment . . . I honestly don't care that Revell is/has repackaged old sailing ship kits! That is no measure of the market's interest. We have built and rebuilt and rebuilt ad infinitum these kits. How many USS Constitutions, HMS Victorys, Cutty Saks, etc can we build to let the manufacturers understand that we need more products?  As an old sage once remarked, "There are none so blind as they who will not see."

 

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:04 PM

Apart from the nostalgia factor, I can think of two reasons for being interested in reissues of old kits.  (I'm referring here strictly to good old kits.  Reissuing that cursed "Beagle" does no good for anybody - except, of course, the people selling it.)

First, I built most of them when I was considerably younger - in my teen years or below.  I think - nay, desperately hope - my skills and knowledge have improved since then, and I wouldn't mind taking another shot at the Revell Charles W. Morgan.

Second - and more important - the hobby will die if new blood doesn't come into it, and popular modeling subjects are vital to attracting new blood. 

The manufacturers apparently have concluded that there simply aren't enough plastic sailing ship enthusiasts out there to justify a major investment in new tooling.  I strongly suspect that, in hard economic terms (which, like it or not, are the terms that have to be of most interest to the manufacturers), they're right.  

These people have to think in terms not of hundreds of kits, but of tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands.  When I was working in a hobby shop, back in the late seventies, the informal word from the manufacturers' representatives was that the break-even point for a new plastic kit was about 100,000 units (i.e., Monogram had to sell 100,000 of its brand-new 1/48 B-29 kits, at a retail price of $12.00, in order to make a profit.  Most of that $12.00, by the way, didn't go into the manufacturer's pocket.  Forty percent went to the hobby shop, and big chunks went to the other "middle-men").  I'm sure the workings of the business have changed since then; in those days kits were a lot cheaper (even with inflation considered), computers had barely entered the design process, and the manufacturers hadn't yet discovered the financial benefits of getting their kits made in China.  But a plastic kit manufacturer still has to sell a staggering number of kits in order to make money. 

That's one big reason why so many reissues appear.  The plastic and other materials that actually go into the box represent only a tiny percentage of what the kit costs the manufacturer.  Most of the initial investment goes to designing the kit (and the instructions, and the box, and the decals), making the masters, and buying the tremendously expensive molds.  Revell has long since recovered all the money it spent to develop, and make the molds for, its old Iowa-class battleship kit; nowadays anything beyond the cost of the plastic and the paper for the box and the instruction sheet (plus shipping, plus the distributers' and dealers' shares) is profit. 

The hobby will only survive if new people - including, preferably, some young ones - get interested in it.  And most of those people haven't built a Constitution or a Cutty Sark.  They may get interested in the hobby because they've been to visit an historic ship (I believe Heller was planning a large-scale Mary Rose shortly before it got out of the market), or see a movie (three - count 'em, three - wood kit manufacturers have produced, or are in the process of producing, H.M.S. Surprise kits since the movie "Master and Commander" was released), or see a model collection in a museum.  (Last summer I went to Mystic Seaport for the first time in several years.  I was disappointed at the meager number of ship model kits in the gift shop, compared to the last time I was there.  If they don't sell in a place like that - where do they sell?)  And they aren't likely to be as interested in esoteric modeling subjects as an experienced modeler is.

There's an important place for hackneyed subjects, and an important place for reissued kits.  The manufacturers make money on them - and maybe, maybe some of that money some of that money can be invested in new tooling.

I'll repeat a point I've made in a couple of other threads.  The plastic sailing ship field is barely surviving at all.  It looks to me like its about as stable as an old-fashioned card castle.  Take out the reissues, the hackneyed subjects, and the money the manufacturers make from their other products (it used to be said that profits from car models made all the others possible), and this portion of the plastic kit business may well disappear completely.  Let's be grateful for what we've got - and hopeful that, eventually, we'll get a little more.   

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:11 PM

Dr. Tilley,

I do understand your points. I, too, once worked in a hobby shop. But, I also understand that, in order to continue consumer interest in a product line, manufacturers must expand their lines. Automotive manufactirers cannot thrive by selling the same model cars year in and year out; they must evolve and develop new models. Furniture manufacturers must do the same, as do manufacturers of anything else. It is a self-defeating policy to expect consumers to continue showing interest in a stagnated product.

At one time, there were enough hobbyists interested in plastic sailing ship model kits. They sustained an industry for years that showed marginal product growth. However, those hobbyists either moved on to the so-called HECEPOB kits to further their interests, or moved to a different form of the hobby (armor, aircraft, modern warships). No new sailing ships were released, or they were released only sporadically. The BATAVIA is a case in point.

At some point, projections showing a decreasing trend of interest in sailing ships became a self-fulfilling prophesy. Manufacturers believe that there is little interest, therefore they fail to provide new products. Consumers lose interest because they only have the same tired line of available kits. With nothing to spur further consumer interest, consumers quit buying the products. This is Marketing 101.

I remember that, only a few years ago, manufacturers believed that ship modelers only made up 13 percent of the modeling industry. The 1980's and 1990's saw rapid improvement and expansion in armor and airplane modeling; ship builders were very neglected. Then, Trumpeter and Dragon, followed by Alan, Zvesda, and others, took a chance with a huge amount of new products and the consumer responded in a big way.

Sailing ship enthusiasts are faced with a crisis; we see no new products and that which is available to us is very sub-par. I firmly believe that, given new and improved products rather than the same, tired old offerings, we would respond in a manner similar to that of the modern warship enthusiasts.

There is no contradictory data of which I am aware. It is not sound marketing policy to offer consumers marginal products, then conclude that a lack of enthusiasm for mediocrity indicates a lack of desire for similar high-quality products. Consumer rejection of mediocrity is just that.

Bill Morrison

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:16 PM

One more thing,

I do not advocate that the manufacturers cease making USS CONSTITUTION, etc. Rather, they start from there and expand their lines of offerings. A newcomer to the hobby might be satisfied with a BOUNTY; I, on the other hand, have built too many BOUNTYs.

By the way, when were you last in Mystic? I live around there and would love to meet you!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:42 PM

I don't think there's any contradiction in the last few posts.  The manufacturers, in order to remain solvent, have to maintain a balance between, on the one hand, "safe," steady sellers (P-51s, Sherman tanks, U.S.S. Arizonas and Cutty Sarks) to attract newcomers and casual shoppers, and, on the other hand, new products to retain the loyalty of their more experienced customers. 

Similar consideration operate in lots of other fields.  Reprinting the likes Stephen King novels brings in the money that lets publishers invest in new authors, and in titles that aren't expected to be best-sellers.  Classical music recording companies make their money on Beethoven symphony CDs, and use some of the profits to record more esoteric music.  Etc., etc.

My wife and I made a trip to New England last summer.  We thoroughly enjoyed ourselves (I was a little surprised that she enjoyed Mystic so much; she's not really a ship lover), and were planning on doing something similar this year, but the money isn't there.  This year, for the first time since 1997, my name didn't come up on the summer school rotation, which normally finances vacation trips.  My wife, on the other hand, got invited to take a grant-funded, most-expenses-paid trip to Japan with a group of other high school social studies teachers.  That's going to eat up the available family recreational funds.  Maybe next year....

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:41 PM

I understand. I am one of the two faculty advisors who escort a group of Advanced Placement History students to Europe for two weeks in the summer. That is usually my "vacation".

It is my contention that the manufacturers are not maintaining that balance. Therein lies the focus of my efforts . . . to get them to do so.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 18, 2008 8:44 AM

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (hmmm...I wonder how many people in the age of the compact disk know what that expression means) I have bad news to report.  I just took a look at the Revell Europe website.  The Viking ship is gone from it again.  Squadron Mail Order also lists it as "out of stock" - though that company hasn't removed the listing for it.

If you're a plastic sailing ship enthusiast and your local dealer has one of these kits, my strong suggestion is to grab it while you can.  The last time Revell Europe took it out of the catalog, it showed up again within a couple of months.  But who knows....

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Friday, July 18, 2008 11:06 AM

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 18, 2008 9:55 PM

Looks like Revell Europe's web catalogue is a little too sophisticated for its own good.  The Viking ship shows up when you click on "all ships," but not when you click on "sailing ships":   http://www.revell.de/en/products/model_kits/model_kits/ships/?id=208&KOKANR=01&KOSCHL=03&KGSCHL=02&KZSLPG=0301&L=1&sort=0&cmd=&offset=&sp=&searchactive=&q=&SWO=&ARMAS4=&PHPSESSID=839abc79eb1634968840519bda53480c&page=1&nc=1 (If it isn't a sailing ship - what is?  Do its oars disqualify it - whereas the engine of the Gorch Fock doesn't disqualify her?  Go figure.)

I continue to think it's a good idea to grab this one while the grabbing's good.  The fact that Squadron's run out of it suggests that it may not be around for long - but who knows?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: W. Chicago,Il.
Posted by Steve H. on Friday, September 5, 2008 9:01 AM

Hi

After looking at that ship this summer during "Swedish Days" festival in Geneva, Il., I must say it looks VERY good. During the festival the last few years, they open the shelter it is kept in. They tell the ships history, and then you can tour the ship itself.  Your model is like looking at the actual ship itself.

SteveH

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Friday, September 5, 2008 4:53 PM
I've been building this as well lately. (Yes, every now and then I lurch several hundred years away from the 16th century.) It truly is fine, and the wood grain is stunning, excellent credit to Revell. It has a large size, simplicity, and the magnificent lines of its prototype. John, I'm glad you scored one and trust it will be a superb model in your hands.

Part of the build has been creating wood effects using acrylics, and there is no better ship than this one to practice on. The engraved grain allows terrific effects and a very subtle feel. Without indications of paint from the actual vessel, and as known painting styles for this type of ship are generally a century later (and therefore possibly different), I opted not to employ paint, and keep it natural wood.

I made some modifications, chosing to model it as a working sailing vessel, so I removed the shield mounting pins, added scalloped inserts to the stem and stern (where the two sides of the hull meet) and added external oar covers based on those employed by the Gokstad replica Gaia. I also modified the stem and stern posts, omitting the anachronistic head (but credit is due to Revell for at least trying to get something archeological, even if a few hundred years off).

I'm about to get to the rigging portion and this will be challenging. I've known for a while that the most substantial indications of rigging from this period is the 11th century farmer's great boat, Skuldelev 3, and observed that reconstructions and replicas of larger ships - the Skuldelev and Hedeby longships, and the Knarrs from the same locations - employ different forms. I've also looked at how the the Gokstad and Oseburg replicas have been rigged, since they would be a century and more earlier, and regret not having installed some form of interior hull mounting for the forestay. I might still be able to add that but have concerns about structural strength of a part glued to a painted surface, under tension from rigging. But if it must be done, it must be done. The option is using the stem, similar to the Ladby ship reconstruction and Skuldelev 5 replica. The latter is smaller than the Gokstad ship, but the Ladby ship a little closer. The shrouds will be mounted onto beams I installed along the ribs close to the deck, similar to those of the replica Gokstad ship. They are likely incorrect, but it was too difficult to drill holes where they might better go, and they are not visually evedent after painting and weathering to look like natural wood.

The only things left after rigging is a sail - wool, treated with ochre and tallow, which gives a varigated yellow look - and an etched brass wind vane. I have a home etched brass kit borrowed from a friend, and when I have enough projects to fill up a sheet of brass, we'll see if I can get it to work. I'll have photos before long, I hope, but I'm taking my time.

Jim
  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: Atlanta, Georgia
Posted by RTimmer on Friday, September 5, 2008 7:26 PM

Hi Woodburner,

A lot of good information there... I've got this one in the stash, and I was wondering what you were using as source/reference material, particularly as regard to the rigging.  Is there sufficient detailed information on the web?  Specific books? or scholarly journals?  Any pointers would be much appreciated.  I hope you'll be posting some progress photos.

Cheers, Rick

P.S. Thanks for the excellent inputs on the Columbus' ship thread.

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Friday, September 5, 2008 9:44 PM
Hi Rick,

I went through a major Viking kick earlier this year, and have a Billing "Roar Edge" (aka Skuldelev 3, a farmer's great boat of ca. 1040) in the stash. Billing kits are generally horrific but this one is actually well designed, and I've fallen in love with the lines of this small, simple yet elegant ship.

There are several books, and the ones I have at hand are two from Conway's History of the Ship series: The Earliest Ships: The Evolution of Boats into Ships, which discribes, among others, the Nydam, Kvalsund, Oseburg and Gokstad ships (basically up to 1000 AD) along with a section describing sailing performance and lessons learned from the Skuldelev replicas, and Cogs, Caravels and Galleons, which begins in the year 1000 and briefly describes the Skuldelev ships. Neither describe the Hedeby ships in any detail, however.

The net is especially fruitful and there are several excellent sites which describe these vessels reliably. The Vikingship Museum in Roskilde, where the Skuldelev ships were found and are preserved, has an excellent site and also a giftshop offering several books on the subject, many scholarly:

http://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/

(at the top of the page you can choose the language you'd like to use)

Here is the Nordic Underwater Archeology site section on the Skuldelev ships - navagate around and you will find tons on links:

http://www.abc.se/~pa/uwa/skuldele.htm

Here is my personal favorite, from a Norweigian man in love with these ships, nicely organized and factually sound. It also has several images of small craft, including replicas of the small boats found with the Gokstad and Oseburg ships. They are gorgeous:

http://home.online.no/~joeolavl/viking/index.htm

Here is a site with a spectacular model of the Oseburg ship:

http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/modell/2004/oseberg/oseberg1.htm

And here is a site relating to the voyages of the long ship Skuldelev 2, which was built near Dublin in 1042 and found in Roskilde, Denmark. It has a helpful sociopolitical background:

http://www.havhingsten.dk/index.php?id=628&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=415&L=1

Here is a youtube video showing the replica Skuldelev 2, which gives an excellent sense of the ships at sea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zykeMKmM2U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWU7XwED_yA&feature=related

For a history of Norse society, I recommend A Brief History of the Vikings by Jonathan Clements. And there are also lots of Viking reenactors - some serious ones in Scandinavia, generally silly ones in the US apart from a group in the northern New England region, and a very ernest group in Australia. Several Viking age farms have been restored as well. Here are the best reenactor groups, with my personal favorite first:

http://www.skjaldborg.livinghistory.cz/index.htm

http://www.foteviken.se/engelsk/articles/e2.htm

http://www.muninn.dds.nl/

and ASK, the combat group which sends its members into the forest to survive for a week, no weekend warriors here:

http://www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk/uk0005.html

and finally, a good one in America:

http://www.darkcompany.ca/intro.php

As you can see, the range of materials extends from scholarly and based on excavation to everything else. This list weeds out stuff that is best passed on, but there are also many other excellent resources, and if you look into it you can tell what's good and whats just what it is.

By the way, if anyone can tell me how to paste links so they work directly, I'd appreciate it . . .

Hope this helps,

Jim
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