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New build: Airfix Wasa *Finished 5-20*

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  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Bugatti Fan on Friday, January 13, 2012 12:04 PM

Hi Guys

Further to my last posts about the Revell Vasa kit, I have been looking at a British website named Scale Plastic and Rail. The new Vasa kit has been subject to an 'out of the box' review on this site by James Hatch. There are many photos of the kit parts and the instruction sheets in this review, so there is a good chance here to see how the Revell kit compares to the Airfix one. Having a quick look and comparing the pictures with my Airfix kit, I felt that the sculpted figures on the Revell kit did not appear to be as well defined as I would have expected. But maybe it was the just the review photos? I would have to get a look at a kit myself to really compare like with like. The parts look quite good though overall. An earlier poster had some reservations about how the cannons were mounted, but looking at the photos on this site should allay any trepidation. I feel that the overall impression when built will look better than the Airfix method of recessed square gunports where you stick in the forward half of a cannon barrel but can still see the back of the recesses ,even when painted matt black. If I decide to build the Airfix version I will probably close most of the hatches save one or two that I will try to make look more realistic. As yet I do not know how!!  Having visited the Vasa museum to see the ship and also having obtained the Stolt plans from the museum, I guess that the Revell kit will stack up much better against these for overall accuracy. Comparing the Airfix one with these plans shows a few inaccuracies that will need sorting out. There are top railings missing , the rearmost one of the ornate merman carvings will need to be removed on each side of the bulwarks. a gunport needs to be added on each side of one of the rear decks, and the ' dormer window' will need to be removed from the ornate side galleries. There is a window in the same position, but it is flush to the ship's main hull and can be seen through a slot in the same position. The Stolt drawings also show a very small window located near to the mizzen mast shroud locations on the hull. These inaccuracies are what I have seen so far on the Airfix kit when compared to the Stolt drawings.  There is nothing there that cannot be put right however. Generally the Airfix kit is not bad considering it dates back to the Seventies when it was first released, and can be worked into a fine model. It would be nice if Airfix started looking at classic ships again like Revell have done with their new Vasa kit. It would be great if either of these manufacturers could bring out either Brunel's Great Britain or HMS Warrior, as the actual ships are there to do the research on.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, December 31, 2011 1:05 PM

Marius,

Thanks, but I've already pre-ordered through my LHS.  It should be here next week.

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Saturday, December 31, 2011 8:56 AM
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, December 31, 2011 8:32 AM

Marius,

Thanks for the photos!  The only issue that I have concerns the gundecks.  It looks like RoG used an old Lindberg trick of having the modeler cement a complete row of gun carriages molded into a single strip piece instead of putting in the entire gundeck and gun carriages individually.  Also, the photos show a bulkhead immediately inboard of the carriages.  I'm not sure what that is supposed to represent.

Granted, it is an easy matter to scrap build a gundeck; replacing the gun carriages is a little more difficult.

Otherwise, the level of detail is impressive.  I can't wait to get the kit!

Bill

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:26 PM

Bugatti Fan

I forgot to mention in my last post that Revell Germany are issuing a Vasa kit and it should be available about the end of this year. It is a brand new kit made with the assistance of the Vasa museum, so it should be very accurate. The scale at 1/150th is slightly smaller than the Airfix 1/144th scale offering. Test shots look good on Revell's website. Serious modellers however, will probably ditch the simplified moulded plastic ratlines in favour of rigging their own. A superb set of plans by Eva Marie Stolt is available from the Vasa Museum in Stockholm. I recently got a set (8 sheets in all). Highly detailed showing  hull, standing and running rigging details a modeller could need to build either the Revell or Airfix kits. I paid about 20 pounds sterling for my set approximately 2 years ago. The set comes with a very interesting museum handbook about the ship. At present, I have the Airfix kit unbuilt, but will probably hold back now until I can get a look at the new Revell kit.

Read my last 2 posts on this thread:

/forums/t/135694.aspx?PageIndex=3

  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Bugatti Fan on Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:28 AM

I forgot to mention in my last post that Revell Germany are issuing a Vasa kit and it should be available about the end of this year. It is a brand new kit made with the assistance of the Vasa museum, so it should be very accurate. The scale at 1/150th is slightly smaller than the Airfix 1/144th scale offering. Test shots look good on Revell's website. Serious modellers however, will probably ditch the simplified moulded plastic ratlines in favour of rigging their own. A superb set of plans by Eva Marie Stolt is available from the Vasa Museum in Stockholm. I recently got a set (8 sheets in all). Highly detailed showing  hull, standing and running rigging details a modeller could need to build either the Revell or Airfix kits. I paid about 20 pounds sterling for my set approximately 2 years ago. The set comes with a very interesting museum handbook about the ship. At present, I have the Airfix kit unbuilt, but will probably hold back now until I can get a look at the new Revell kit.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:04 PM

Thanks for the kind words!

I built this right out of the box and on a budget. the only thing I deviated on was the rigging. I had enlarged a picture of a wood kit and rigged based off the picture. or at least guessed my way though it. i had some good info from the vasamuseet regarding colors, but i winged on the bow because I could find any free reference material at the time. i think if i do build the Revell kit there will be a fair bit of scratch building involved with the bulwarks, and dead eyes. the molded dead eyes have to go. of course this was the big hang up on my Royal Louis. I lost interest after tying some 40 something dead eyes and only being half finished with just that.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Klaipeda, Lithuania, Europe
Posted by Wojszwillo on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:19 PM
  • Member since
    January 2011
Posted by Bugatti Fan on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:28 AM

Enemeink's Airfix Vasa looks superb. A real testament to his modelling skills and it goes to show what you can do with a plastic sailing ship kit of 1970's origin

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: NW Connecticut
Posted by abutt2 on Friday, September 17, 2010 4:42 PM

I'm close to this stage with my Wasa. Ready to paint. Did anyone have any problems with those little "viewing domes" on each side of the stern? I even found some of the castings were plain wrong! But I got it together. This is a fine kit, but not for the new kid or faint of heart!

Allan

  • Member since
    September 2009
Posted by rodney on Monday, September 28, 2009 12:45 PM

to enemeink

        I see by your mesage that you managed to complete the WASA I have recently been given this model as a present although it is many years since Iwas last a modeller any tips would be much appreciated plus does the kit need any preparation prior to painting .

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:47 PM

thanks!

wow it's been almost a year to date since i finished building the Vasa. how time has sailed by....

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    March 2005
Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:50 PM
Great Job!Looking at the lower hull in relation to the upper decks(Which were loaded with cannon).One can see why she rolled over and sank.Not enough ballast possible given the top-heavy gun decks!
  • Member since
    June 2007
Posted by Walter1965 on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:13 PM
Hello Jaron,your Vasa looks very nice!Great paint.For anyone that is looking for information about the Vasa please try our Yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SwedishWarshipWasa/ .Dr Fred Hocker from the Vasa museum belongs to the group and has been a very valueable source of help and information for us Vasa builders.Cheers Walter
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Friday, May 30, 2008 10:18 AM
thanks for the discussions. it what makes these forums fun and the builds that much more enjoyable.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:45 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for clarifying that for me! I really appreciate it.  Your responses are what makes this forum so valuable.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:26 AM

Thanks jtilley,

I did a lot of research on the Wasa way before I started the build on this. I actually did a large amount while I was building the Revell-Germany Victory. There are some great links in this thread that have loads of research. I also could not find anything suggesting that a waterline was ever added. Also almost every illustration that I have seen does not have a tarred waterline.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:28 PM

I hope enemeink will forgive me if I answer that last one - because I think the subject is interesting.  The researchers in Stockholm recently completed a thorough study of the paint on the Wasa.  (That's the same project that blew away the old assumption that the carvings were all gold-leafed on a blue background.)  Their conclusion regarding the hull was that the entire external surface of it (below the red-painted parts) was simply coated with tar.  There was no indication that anything resembling a "waterline" had ever been marked on it.

All that gentleman's commentary was included in a letter from him that was quoted in Ships in Scale magazine a year or so ago.  I'm sorry I can't lay hands on it at the moment; it was extremely interesting.

According to the folks from our university who went over there and did research on the ship last December, that tar on the external surfaces was the source of a more-or-less false alarm that scared a lot of people last year.  Some sort of chemical compound seems to be leeching out of the hull timbers, and the conservators thought it was related to the polyethelene glycol (PEG) that had been applied back in the 1960s.  It turned out, as I understand it, to be related somehow to the old tar coating from the seventeenth century.  The conservators now, as I understand it, have the problem under control.

I don't think anybody can be exactly sure just what shade of brown the hull originally was, but einemeink's certainly looks believable to me.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:39 PM

I have one question. Is there a reason for not painting the hull below the waterline in a tallow color? I'm not intending an implied criticism but rather that I'm curious.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:57 AM

Flags present a challenge to any ship modeler.  Maybe the best approach to it is to start by getting a thorough understanding of the real thing.

Real flags, especially during the sailing ship era, were often extremely large.  In order for them to be practical in terms of handling, they had to be made of relatively lightweight material.  (I suspect another consideration had to do with the ship's navigation.  Some of the flags flown by those old ships were as big as their topgallants; if a huge flag got snarled up in the rigging in just the wrong way it could really mess things up.)  The surviving examples indicate that flags often were made of some tough material with the texture of coarsely-woven gauze - so coarse that the wind could literally blow through it.  The old master marine artists often made their flags look downright translucent.  (Here's an example:  http://www.artforbeauty.com/sailpaintings/Resolution3582.html .)

The museum where I used to work had a big British blue ensign that had belonged to the liner Queen Elizabeth.  The flag itself was gone by the time I got there (the file indicated "destroyed by rodents" - a thoroughly embarrassing confession for any museum to make), but the file photos established that it had been made of a material that most people would describe as "netting."  The openings in the mesh must have been almost an inch wide.

The Wasa's flags (I'm basing this on the box art) were, with the notable exception of the big ensign on the stern ensign staff, pretty simple in design:  yellow crosses on blue backgrounds.  I imagine the real ones were made by stitching together pieces of blue and yellow fabric.  The big ensign, with the heraldic figures on it, is another matter.  The lions and other devices probably were embroidered separately and stitched onto the background fabric.  (An interesting question:  would the lions on the other side of the flag be facing right or left?  The rules of heraldry are, I believe, quite specific about that - but if the lions were facing to the left as seen from both sides of the flag, and the basic fabric of the flag was indeed translucent, the result would look pretty odd - especially if the sun was behind the flag.)

Fortunately, for the modeler working on 1/144 scale much of this isn't directly relevant.  My own usual approach to the problem is to paint the flags with diluted acrylic artist colors on thin white tissue paper or drafting vellum, with the paper taped down over a pattern (which is covered with Scotch tape to prevent the paint from soaking through the flag and sticking to the pattern).  I deliberately keep the colors a bit pale, to give at least an impression of that transucent look.  When the paint's dry I cut the flag out and take a look at the reverse side.  If the design is fairly simple the paint usually will have soaked through enough that I only have to touch up a few spots.  In a U.S. flag, I have to paint the stars on both sides.  My target is to make the flag, and the paint, thin enough that light can shine through it - at least where there's no additional layer of fabric.  (Take a look at the first shot in the movie "Saving Private Ryan."  It shows an American flag with the sun behind it.  The stripes and the blue field are translucent, but the stars look almost black.  That's because they were sewn onto the flag separately - and they're in silhouette.) 

This process is easier than a lot of people seem to think.  Believe me, painting those flags would be a hCensored [censored]l of a lot eaiser than painting the "carvings" on the Wasa. And if you don't get your flag right the first time you can throw it away and start over.

But I've never tackled anything as intricate as those Swedish lions.  I'm not sure I could paint them acceptably - though using the Airfix flag as the pattern would certainly help. 

One tip.  Some people use colored marking pens to make flags.  If you do that, make sure the pen is clearly marked "Permanent."  Most of them aren't, and their ink fades almost beyond recognition in a few weeks. 

The paper on which the manufacturers print flags is indeed ludicrously thick for the purpose - especially when folded over double.  Maybe a partial solution (which I haven't tried, but I don't see why it wouldn't work) would be to make a color copy of the flagsheet with an inkjet or laser printer onto a thinner paper.  (I do know that my Epson RX580 works perfectly well with drafting vellum.  I suspect it would even print on tissue paper, if the tissue were taped down to a heavier backing sheet.)  Maybe the copies could be cut in half and painted on their backs to match the fronts.  Even if they were doubled over, they'd be a lot thinner than the ones in the kit.

Sailing ship kit designers do, thank goodness, seem to have abandoned a remarkably silly tradition that used to be common in the business:  making flags with "ripples" drawn in perspective.  I remember in particular the Revell Santa Maria, whose flag sheet featured exquisitely intricate Spanish Renaissance designs printed in great detail on what amounted to "pictures" of flags fluttering in a "breeze."  The person who drew those designs (twice - once for each side of the foldover flag) was a real artist.  But didn't it occur to anybody that a two-dimensional picture of a rippling flag attached to a three-dimensional ship model would look utterly ridiculous?  And that anybody who's capable of dressing himself is also capable of putting genuine, three-dimensional ripples in a miniature flag in a few seconds?  (By coincidence, Revell Europe has just reissued that kit - complete with the original flags:  http://www.revell.de/3d-view/galery.php?objID=05405&lang=en   .  See what I mean?)  

Just how the finished flag should be shaped is worth thinking about.  I personally tend to like models with furled sails or bare spars.  (That's a personal opinion - and subject to change.)  On a model like that the flags, to my eye at least, look best drooping - especially if the model is a full-hull one mounted on pedestals.  Einemeink's Wasa, on the other hand, seems to be experiencing a moderate wind, which is filling the sails.  That wind obviously would have a similar effect on the flags.  Given that the yards are squared, the wind must be coming from dead astern or nearly so; the flags therefore would be blowing almost straight ahead.  (A seventeenth-century ship couldn't move fast enough to make the flags stream out behind.  Note that in that Van de Velde painting, the wind is blowing from the port side and the flags are streaming out to starboard.) 

Some time ago I had to do a drawing project that involved showing flags blowing in a breeze, and I quickly found out that drawing a flag in that configuration isn't as easy as it looks.  So I picked a breezy, sunny day and took my digital camera, with the shutter speed set high, over to the campus library, which has a nice big flag on the pole in front of it.  I got some curious looks from people who couldn't imagine why I was snapping dozens of pictures of that flag waving in the breeze, but when I was done I had a useful collection of pictures showing the configurations real flags get into.  (Some of those shapes were a little surprising.)

Too long as usual, but I hope it helps a little.  That fine model really deserves some nice flags.  Good luck.

Later edit:  I must have been typing this post when warshipguy's and einemeink's went up.  Looks like einemeink thought of the same idea I did. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:50 AM
yeah I have thought of this but in the long run I don't think the cost will out weigh the results. I also thought about using a blending marker to get the ink to bleed out but that might not work to well and could smudge. i'm thinking that i'm just going to scan them and reprint them on a thinner paper, then glue them together. it's kind of disappointing that the material for the flags was overlooked.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:36 AM

Enemeink,

Have you considered silkscreening your own flags? Use the existing flags to create the patterns. I have done this with many kits. It works well.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:52 AM

Thanks warshipguy!

I put the finishing touches last night to my Wasa, Except for the flags. I don't know what to do with them just yet. they seem to be just printed on 90lb card stock so they haven't been added. for the rigging I found a picture of a wooden ship by Corel for reference. I have to admit that I did try to use the rigging tool that was provided (just to see) and it was more of a headache then it was worth to use. Thanks for the discussions and advise to all of those who gave it and made this build fun. This is only my second rigged model ship and i don't think that it would have been half as good if it wasn't for the community. Thanks and enjoy!

Jaron.

 

 

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, May 19, 2008 11:55 AM
I am extremely impressed! You are doing a magnificent job! And, thanks for the excellent photos; they are a big help.
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *5-16*
Posted by enemeink on Friday, May 16, 2008 11:20 AM

Thanks Grem!

I seem to be dragging my feet on finishing this. I don't know why but i just don't like doing ratlines. But spring cleaning and getting things ready for the summer has kept me pretty busy as well. not much of an update but it's still an update. enjoy!

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:12 AM

Looking very good Enemeink.A very well executed paint job !

Julian

 

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *update 4-9*
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 28, 2008 9:53 PM

So it's been awhile since I've added an update. So here it is. It took awhile to get the tools to get this going. I'm pretty close to finishing this off so i'll put up more pics as they come. Enjoy.

 

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 14, 2008 11:29 AM
so it turns out that there is no place to run the shrouds lines through some of the tops. so I'm waiting on some tools that I ordered to help with this.....lame. I am thinking about starting another build while I wait......
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:39 PM

In regards to using paper sails, I am having pretty good success with experimenting on this Heller Royal Luise. It is about the same size as the Wasa and I have been using high quality resume' paper as what was suggested to me here on this forum.

The masts seem out of alignment because I just started running rigging. 

Scott

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