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New build: Airfix Wasa *Finished 5-20*

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  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:34 PM
It's probably also worth noting that ships and their anchors, fishing nets and all sorts of other debris was likely to cause damage over the centuries.  It is just amazing to me how well-preserved the whole thing is after such a long time on the bottom!  As for the fo'c'sle issue, I refer to an elevated deck, either fully enclosed, or open towards the back (as in its original usage 'fore-CASTLE').  Tall enclosed fo'c'sles were very popular prior to the Spanish Armada, and even most of the larger English ships of the Elizabethans had very prominent fo'c'sles too (check out the contemporary paintings of the Dutchman artist, Vroom).  From my understanding, it was actually the Dutch who first popularized the 'race-built' or essentially flush-decked ships during their war of independence against Spain, mostly because this improved the sailing characteristics of the ship (less windage).  This is important to note, because it marks a definite transition in strategy from dependence on boarding operations (in which case a tall fo'c'sle is of very positive benefit), to a much greater dependence on cannon and gunfire to achieve victory.  Oddly, or perhaps not, when tactics changed to 'line ahead' and other battle formations (i.e. instead of an individual ship melee), the fo'c'sle appears to have made a definite comeback among all ship-builders, including the Dutch.
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:31 PM

In the Wasa report it also make note of some of warping of the decks being caused by blast rubble being dumped on the site when there was a new ship yard being built. with that said. it's amazing that they were able to raise most of it in one piece.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:48 PM

Remarkably enough, the Swedes did make a serious attempt to raise her within a few months after she sank.  That probably did some damage.  When it didn't work, various people did succeed in hauling up some of the guns - expensive objects that could be raised with the available technology and cleaned up for use on other ships.  Anytime a warship sank in the seventeenth or eighteenth century somebody tried to bring up the guns - usually without worrying much about what damage he did to the rest of the ship in the process.

It's really surprising that, given the efforts of the early salvors and the amount of traffic in Stockholm Harbor, the ship survived in such good shape for as long as she did.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *update*
Posted by enemeink on Monday, March 31, 2008 11:35 AM

ok so far the most time consuming part of this build is painting the hull. There are so many details that it Just boggles the mind. since there are no detailed drawings at the moment of how the bow of the ship is supposed to look I made assumptions as to how some of the figures would look. Not historically accurate I don't think, but close enough I guess. I'm going to start placing the guns this week. enjoy!

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 7, 2008 10:39 AM

so here is the latest update on the Wasa. the assembly is completed and all I have left is the rigging, which I started for a minute but didn't get very far. in the inturctions it doesn't say how to secure the long boat to the deck. It just shows it sitting there. so I clipped 2 link out of some cheap chain that I had and used that to secure the line for the boat.

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, April 7, 2008 12:52 PM

Looks great. The paint job is a spectacular success.

I'll take the liberty of makinig one small suggestion - which I wouldn't make if it wasn't easy deal with at this point in the process.  The topsail and topgallant yards appear to be in their raised positions.  They'd only be there when the sails were set.  So if you're going to use the vac-formed sails from the kit, the yards are in the right places.  But if you're going to have furled sails, or omit them altogether, the topsail and topgallant yards should be lowered to within a couple of feet above the caps on the masts below them.

As I remember, some Airfix kits provid alternative mounting holes for the yards in their raised and lowered positions.  I don't remember whether this kit does or not.

This is going to be a beautiful model.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 7, 2008 2:00 PM

Thanks!

Yes I intend to show her with her sails raised, but i don't think that i'm going to use the vac-formed ones this time. I've read an article on how you can use the vac-formed sails as a mold for paper sails so i think i'm going to try that first. And there are only one position for the sails. there's only a block mating surface so the sails and yards are set square and can't be set at an angle, unless i want to get real creative.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, April 7, 2008 3:36 PM
 enemeink wrote:

I've read an article on how you can use the vac-formed sails as a mold for paper sails so i think i'm going to try that first.

greetings ! I'm following your Vasa build up with keenest interest. You are quite inspiring ! thank you and bless your skill Smile [:)] May I ask if you can provide us with that article too ? sails for plastic kits is an issue that annoys most serious modelers and any innovation towards accuracy is more than welcome.

cheers

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 7, 2008 6:33 PM
 kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:
 enemeink wrote:

I've read an article on how you can use the vac-formed sails as a mold for paper sails so i think i'm going to try that first.

greetings ! I'm following your Vasa build up with keenest interest. You are quite inspiring ! thank you and bless your skill Smile [:)] May I ask if you can provide us with that article too ? sails for plastic kits is an issue that annoys most serious modelers and any innovation towards accuracy is more than welcome.

cheers

I read this at modelingmadness.com. The author was building the lindberg "la flore" kit and mentioned how he made the sails out of paper and I thought that I would also try this since it turned out so well for him. Here is the link it is under colors and markings and the 4th paragraph down from there. enjoy.

http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/ships/ewaldpi.htm

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, April 7, 2008 10:48 PM

For what it's worth, here's a link to a discussion about sails that we had here in the Forum some time ago:  /forums/350912/ShowPost.aspx

The whole subject is guaranteed to get a discussion going among ship modelers - and almost all of them have strong opinions one way or another about it.  As can be seen in that thread, my own personal tastes run against "set" sails under most circumstances.  But here's a link to the work of a gentleman who, over an extremely long and productive career, has learned how to make "set" sails as effectively as anybody I've encountered:  http://www.donaldmcnarryshipmodels.com/menu.html

I always hesitate a little before pointing people in the direction of Mr. McNarry.  His work is inspirational, but (to me at least) also intimidating.  Be sure to note the scales and sizes of the models in the pictures.  To this gentleman, that Airfix Wasa is big.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, April 7, 2008 11:33 PM

If you haven't seen this, here's a link to the National Geographic site abt the ship, which is the basis of the article in "Men, Ships and the Sea".

http://www.abc.se/~pa/publ/vasa.htm#I.%20Brief%20history%20of%20the%20birth%20and%20disappearance%20of

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *update 4-9*
Posted by enemeink on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:51 AM

I managed to put up some of the rigging last night. I've got to say that the second time around is always easier and much faster. After everything was said and done, the riggings had a little bit of sag on them so to tighten them all up again I added string on the bow-spirit to give everything proper tension. next up ratlines.....

i'm going to try to get some better pics with some butchers paper that I have for a back drop. hopefully that will help with the detail.

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:10 AM
so I decide last night that the rigging that i did was boring and not very good. so i decided to take most of it off and restart from the beginning. I don't know why the thought never crossed my mind that the instructions were basic and didn't have very much detail. So after some google searches I think I have pretty good idea of what needs to be done.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:09 PM

I didn't want to say this earlier, but since you've removed the rigging you'd already installed....I think most sailing ship modelers who've been at it for a while would agree that the easiest and most practical way to rig a ship model is to follow (with certain deviations) the sequence that the riggers of the real things followed.  That means the first lines to go into place are the shrouds.  Then come the stays and other standing rigging, followed by the running rigging.

The old timers also were in the habit of rigging the masts section-by-section - that is, installing and rigging all three lower masts, then adding and rigging the topmasts, then the topgallant masts.  That sequence minimizes the tendency of spars and lines to interfere with each other.  It also helps ensure that the rigging of the lower masts and yards doesn't intefere with that of the upper spars.  The rigging of the real ship was designed in such a way that the topmasts, for instance, could be taken out of the ship without disturbing the rigging that held up the lower masts. 

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Friday, April 11, 2008 10:20 AM
well so far i've only been removing as I go. so it's only been section by section and side to side. the idea is to do a before and after. the Airfix instructions vs google. basically I've found some pics of what other modelers have done with wood kits and used that as a reference. Thanks for the help and the heads up you always seem to give direction right when it's needed. Big Smile [:D]
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:39 PM

In regards to using paper sails, I am having pretty good success with experimenting on this Heller Royal Luise. It is about the same size as the Wasa and I have been using high quality resume' paper as what was suggested to me here on this forum.

The masts seem out of alignment because I just started running rigging. 

Scott

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 14, 2008 11:29 AM
so it turns out that there is no place to run the shrouds lines through some of the tops. so I'm waiting on some tools that I ordered to help with this.....lame. I am thinking about starting another build while I wait......
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *update 4-9*
Posted by enemeink on Monday, April 28, 2008 9:53 PM

So it's been awhile since I've added an update. So here it is. It took awhile to get the tools to get this going. I'm pretty close to finishing this off so i'll put up more pics as they come. Enjoy.

 

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:12 AM

Looking very good Enemeink.A very well executed paint job !

Julian

 

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
New build: Airfix Wasa *5-16*
Posted by enemeink on Friday, May 16, 2008 11:20 AM

Thanks Grem!

I seem to be dragging my feet on finishing this. I don't know why but i just don't like doing ratlines. But spring cleaning and getting things ready for the summer has kept me pretty busy as well. not much of an update but it's still an update. enjoy!

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Monday, May 19, 2008 11:55 AM
I am extremely impressed! You are doing a magnificent job! And, thanks for the excellent photos; they are a big help.
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:52 AM

Thanks warshipguy!

I put the finishing touches last night to my Wasa, Except for the flags. I don't know what to do with them just yet. they seem to be just printed on 90lb card stock so they haven't been added. for the rigging I found a picture of a wooden ship by Corel for reference. I have to admit that I did try to use the rigging tool that was provided (just to see) and it was more of a headache then it was worth to use. Thanks for the discussions and advise to all of those who gave it and made this build fun. This is only my second rigged model ship and i don't think that it would have been half as good if it wasn't for the community. Thanks and enjoy!

Jaron.

 

 

 

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:36 AM

Enemeink,

Have you considered silkscreening your own flags? Use the existing flags to create the patterns. I have done this with many kits. It works well.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:50 AM
yeah I have thought of this but in the long run I don't think the cost will out weigh the results. I also thought about using a blending marker to get the ink to bleed out but that might not work to well and could smudge. i'm thinking that i'm just going to scan them and reprint them on a thinner paper, then glue them together. it's kind of disappointing that the material for the flags was overlooked.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:57 AM

Flags present a challenge to any ship modeler.  Maybe the best approach to it is to start by getting a thorough understanding of the real thing.

Real flags, especially during the sailing ship era, were often extremely large.  In order for them to be practical in terms of handling, they had to be made of relatively lightweight material.  (I suspect another consideration had to do with the ship's navigation.  Some of the flags flown by those old ships were as big as their topgallants; if a huge flag got snarled up in the rigging in just the wrong way it could really mess things up.)  The surviving examples indicate that flags often were made of some tough material with the texture of coarsely-woven gauze - so coarse that the wind could literally blow through it.  The old master marine artists often made their flags look downright translucent.  (Here's an example:  http://www.artforbeauty.com/sailpaintings/Resolution3582.html .)

The museum where I used to work had a big British blue ensign that had belonged to the liner Queen Elizabeth.  The flag itself was gone by the time I got there (the file indicated "destroyed by rodents" - a thoroughly embarrassing confession for any museum to make), but the file photos established that it had been made of a material that most people would describe as "netting."  The openings in the mesh must have been almost an inch wide.

The Wasa's flags (I'm basing this on the box art) were, with the notable exception of the big ensign on the stern ensign staff, pretty simple in design:  yellow crosses on blue backgrounds.  I imagine the real ones were made by stitching together pieces of blue and yellow fabric.  The big ensign, with the heraldic figures on it, is another matter.  The lions and other devices probably were embroidered separately and stitched onto the background fabric.  (An interesting question:  would the lions on the other side of the flag be facing right or left?  The rules of heraldry are, I believe, quite specific about that - but if the lions were facing to the left as seen from both sides of the flag, and the basic fabric of the flag was indeed translucent, the result would look pretty odd - especially if the sun was behind the flag.)

Fortunately, for the modeler working on 1/144 scale much of this isn't directly relevant.  My own usual approach to the problem is to paint the flags with diluted acrylic artist colors on thin white tissue paper or drafting vellum, with the paper taped down over a pattern (which is covered with Scotch tape to prevent the paint from soaking through the flag and sticking to the pattern).  I deliberately keep the colors a bit pale, to give at least an impression of that transucent look.  When the paint's dry I cut the flag out and take a look at the reverse side.  If the design is fairly simple the paint usually will have soaked through enough that I only have to touch up a few spots.  In a U.S. flag, I have to paint the stars on both sides.  My target is to make the flag, and the paint, thin enough that light can shine through it - at least where there's no additional layer of fabric.  (Take a look at the first shot in the movie "Saving Private Ryan."  It shows an American flag with the sun behind it.  The stripes and the blue field are translucent, but the stars look almost black.  That's because they were sewn onto the flag separately - and they're in silhouette.) 

This process is easier than a lot of people seem to think.  Believe me, painting those flags would be a hCensored [censored]l of a lot eaiser than painting the "carvings" on the Wasa. And if you don't get your flag right the first time you can throw it away and start over.

But I've never tackled anything as intricate as those Swedish lions.  I'm not sure I could paint them acceptably - though using the Airfix flag as the pattern would certainly help. 

One tip.  Some people use colored marking pens to make flags.  If you do that, make sure the pen is clearly marked "Permanent."  Most of them aren't, and their ink fades almost beyond recognition in a few weeks. 

The paper on which the manufacturers print flags is indeed ludicrously thick for the purpose - especially when folded over double.  Maybe a partial solution (which I haven't tried, but I don't see why it wouldn't work) would be to make a color copy of the flagsheet with an inkjet or laser printer onto a thinner paper.  (I do know that my Epson RX580 works perfectly well with drafting vellum.  I suspect it would even print on tissue paper, if the tissue were taped down to a heavier backing sheet.)  Maybe the copies could be cut in half and painted on their backs to match the fronts.  Even if they were doubled over, they'd be a lot thinner than the ones in the kit.

Sailing ship kit designers do, thank goodness, seem to have abandoned a remarkably silly tradition that used to be common in the business:  making flags with "ripples" drawn in perspective.  I remember in particular the Revell Santa Maria, whose flag sheet featured exquisitely intricate Spanish Renaissance designs printed in great detail on what amounted to "pictures" of flags fluttering in a "breeze."  The person who drew those designs (twice - once for each side of the foldover flag) was a real artist.  But didn't it occur to anybody that a two-dimensional picture of a rippling flag attached to a three-dimensional ship model would look utterly ridiculous?  And that anybody who's capable of dressing himself is also capable of putting genuine, three-dimensional ripples in a miniature flag in a few seconds?  (By coincidence, Revell Europe has just reissued that kit - complete with the original flags:  http://www.revell.de/3d-view/galery.php?objID=05405&lang=en   .  See what I mean?)  

Just how the finished flag should be shaped is worth thinking about.  I personally tend to like models with furled sails or bare spars.  (That's a personal opinion - and subject to change.)  On a model like that the flags, to my eye at least, look best drooping - especially if the model is a full-hull one mounted on pedestals.  Einemeink's Wasa, on the other hand, seems to be experiencing a moderate wind, which is filling the sails.  That wind obviously would have a similar effect on the flags.  Given that the yards are squared, the wind must be coming from dead astern or nearly so; the flags therefore would be blowing almost straight ahead.  (A seventeenth-century ship couldn't move fast enough to make the flags stream out behind.  Note that in that Van de Velde painting, the wind is blowing from the port side and the flags are streaming out to starboard.) 

Some time ago I had to do a drawing project that involved showing flags blowing in a breeze, and I quickly found out that drawing a flag in that configuration isn't as easy as it looks.  So I picked a breezy, sunny day and took my digital camera, with the shutter speed set high, over to the campus library, which has a nice big flag on the pole in front of it.  I got some curious looks from people who couldn't imagine why I was snapping dozens of pictures of that flag waving in the breeze, but when I was done I had a useful collection of pictures showing the configurations real flags get into.  (Some of those shapes were a little surprising.)

Too long as usual, but I hope it helps a little.  That fine model really deserves some nice flags.  Good luck.

Later edit:  I must have been typing this post when warshipguy's and einemeink's went up.  Looks like einemeink thought of the same idea I did. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 6:39 PM

I have one question. Is there a reason for not painting the hull below the waterline in a tallow color? I'm not intending an implied criticism but rather that I'm curious.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:28 PM

I hope enemeink will forgive me if I answer that last one - because I think the subject is interesting.  The researchers in Stockholm recently completed a thorough study of the paint on the Wasa.  (That's the same project that blew away the old assumption that the carvings were all gold-leafed on a blue background.)  Their conclusion regarding the hull was that the entire external surface of it (below the red-painted parts) was simply coated with tar.  There was no indication that anything resembling a "waterline" had ever been marked on it.

All that gentleman's commentary was included in a letter from him that was quoted in Ships in Scale magazine a year or so ago.  I'm sorry I can't lay hands on it at the moment; it was extremely interesting.

According to the folks from our university who went over there and did research on the ship last December, that tar on the external surfaces was the source of a more-or-less false alarm that scared a lot of people last year.  Some sort of chemical compound seems to be leeching out of the hull timbers, and the conservators thought it was related to the polyethelene glycol (PEG) that had been applied back in the 1960s.  It turned out, as I understand it, to be related somehow to the old tar coating from the seventeenth century.  The conservators now, as I understand it, have the problem under control.

I don't think anybody can be exactly sure just what shade of brown the hull originally was, but einemeink's certainly looks believable to me.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:26 AM

Thanks jtilley,

I did a lot of research on the Wasa way before I started the build on this. I actually did a large amount while I was building the Revell-Germany Victory. There are some great links in this thread that have loads of research. I also could not find anything suggesting that a waterline was ever added. Also almost every illustration that I have seen does not have a tarred waterline.

"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:45 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for clarifying that for me! I really appreciate it.  Your responses are what makes this forum so valuable.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: San Bernardino, CA
Posted by enemeink on Friday, May 30, 2008 10:18 AM
thanks for the discussions. it what makes these forums fun and the builds that much more enjoyable.
"The race for quality has no finish line, so technically it's more like a death march."
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