Whose clear flat do you like using these days?

I like mixing Future Acrylic Floor Finish with Tamiya X21 Flat Base at a ratio of four parts Future to one part flat base.  It paints well, although I should mention that I shoot all my acrylics through my external mix Paasche H, and gives a nice consistent flat finish.  I prefer it to Testor's Dull Coat and to Model Master Acryl Clear Flat which are the only other clear flats that I have used.

Andy 

I only use Future with Tamiya's flat base, although I don't mix it at 4:1, but instead more like 10:1 (I've found that with any more flat base and it can turn into a whitish coat instead).  I have a bottle of Testor's flat lacquer coat but I haven't used it yet, so no help there sorry. 

Jon

Ditto KISS and using Dullcoat, also, I use a craft-store spray varnish, a brand called "Tree House"... 11 oz rattle can for about 6 bucks, vs Dullcoat for 3 ozs at about that same price...  I also use a flat for airbrushes called "Createx"... Dries dead-flat, great for my figures...  I get 'em all at Hobby Lobby... I'm too lazy to mix flat-base into anything, Future or otherwise... I don't like the way Future looks either, so...

Thanks for the feedback guys.  Great ideas!  I posted this in my other message but I'm going to make up a storyboard with the various techniques.  I'm especially interested in the Future technique.  This link is to an article about decals but speak a great deal about finishes.  It was interesting so I thought I would put it here too in case you didn't see it.

http://www.californiamodelworkshop.org/tutorials/decals/decals.htm

I'm not sold on the Testors Dullcoat.  I used it years ago and it would "model" on the surface.  I really hated that look.  Has the product changed or do you have any special way of dealing with that problem?  I'm not sure if it was a high altitude thing or something I was doing wrong? Anyway, ideas are appreciated.

Thank you

Dave

What Hans said.

Funny you ask... my hobby store stopped carrying my old favorite, "Polyscale Brand" flat.

I'm not sure if it was acrylic, but it behaves like it.  They've replaced it with "MicroSol Brand".

 I bought Micro Sol Brand "Flat Overcoat" and Micro Sol Brand "Gloss Overcoat". I recently used these on my airplane models and they worked teriffic. I mixed each 50/50 and added the same amount of water. I sprayed the mixture with my double action airbrush. The finish came out extremely smooth and dried rock-hard.

Greetings, I posted this on the other thread I started.

Greetings all,

I went down to the LHS and picked up a variety of finishes and ran some experiments.  Here's what I came up with.  I bought the following material...

Mr. Hobby Flat Base, Tamiya Flat Base X-21, MM Acrylic Flat Base, Microscale Flat. 

I could not find Polyscale at my two favorite shops so I wasn't able to try that.  I also did not use any lacquer based finishes because I'm not real fond of Dulcoat.

I painted a sheet of plastic with White Ensign Models dark gray which is an oil based paint.  I thought this might show up any hints of fogging the best.  I then masked off 2/3 of the sheet and shot a good coat of future since it's my gloss finish of choice. 

Test 1 was based on MM Acrylic Flat.  First I thinned it 50/50 with Windex thinking it might be similar to the Polyscale.  It sprayed fine but when dry lightened up the base color.  It was very flat but gave the impression of a slight fogging.  I then tried shooting it with Testors thinner instead of Windex and this produced a better result.

Test 2 was based on Mr. Hobby & Future.  This was a disaster.  Mr. Hobby does not mix with future.  It's a "solvent based acrylic" and when mixed with future made a gloppy mess. 

Test 3 was based on Tamiya Flat Base X-21 mixed with Future.  This base is so think I didn't have very good success deciding what the ratio was.  I would guess I started at about 6 parts future to 1 part flat base.  The Tamiya base mixes beautifully with the future.  I then thinned it with about 20% rubbing alcohol and it shot very nicely from my airbrush.  It was slightly on the foggy side (not as bad as the MM Acrylic Flat) but looked pretty good.  I then cut it by adding some additional future to the mix and as expected I achieved a semi-gloss finish.  I then cut it again which I think proved to be too much future.  At this final point it was probably greater than 10:1. 

Test 4 was based on Microscale.  Clearly my problem from before was that I had not thinned this for my airbrush.  So this time I thinned it about 30% with distilled water and proceeded to shoot it over the paint covered with Future.  It came out slightly less foggy than the Tamiya/Future mix above but very very close.  It's hard to tell the difference.  I then shot it over the paint not covered by Future.   

Conclusion - I like the Tamiya flat base mixed with the Future.  This should give a more durable finish than the Microscale product.  I strongly suggest testing your mix on a sample before shooting it on your finished model to make sure you have the right mix of base to future.  What's exciting about this is the ability to control your sheen.   The Microscale achieved similar results and frankly is much easier to use since you don't have to worry about getting the mixture right.  Also you don't have to worry about getting subsequent coats mixed correctly.  So for me I think the right choice is to protect the finished model with Future and then flat coat it with Microscale flat. 

I really appreciate the input I received from you guys.  It was very helpful and a good learning experience.

Dave

Wow weebles,

Thanks for taking the time for all that. I'm new with my airbrush and I've experimented too.

In an earlier post I mentioned that I've recently used "MicroSol Flat" but that is incorrect. It was "Microscale". My hobby shop proprietor reccommended it when I complained about not being able to get "Poly Scale" products.

I haven't had any issues with fogging or haze. I bought Microscale Gloss and Microscale Flat, and they mix without problems to each other or with acrylic paint. I intentionally wanted the top of my model to be a bit sun faded, so I mixed in some acrylic white paint (just a drop or two) and airbrushed it on.

weebles, as a further test I'd suggest storing a few samples in different locations for a few years and taking a look at them.  You might store some samples in hostile environments, such as your attic or in a sunny window.

I recently pulled a model out of storage that I had completed in 1990.  I used MM enamel gloss white, top coated with MM flat from a spray can.  It is now a definite yellow.  I didn't keep the model in an attic, but a cool basement.

Air Master Modeler wrote:

For years now I have been using Krylon Clear Matte Spray in the rattle can for flat finishes on my models. I just apply a few light misting coats and get a dead flat finish. What I really like about it is that it is water proof after drying. It will not attack a Future coat and really hides the edges of decals very good to give them that painted on look. Also, it is was what artists spray over canvas to prep or coat a finished painting. It's served me very well and no need to mix it or airbrush it. I wont use anything else.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll pick some up and compare it with the others.

Thank you

Dave

I use Alclad Gloss Klear Kote,and Alclad Aqua Gloss.

I was confused because the OP was about clear flat,for that I also use Alclad Flat.

weebles

Greetings,

I'm curious what clear flat finish people are happy with these days.  I've used Microscale and Floquil products in the past.  The Microscale I have in my paint box doesn't seem to flow as well out of my new airbrush.  Old airbrush was an external mix and this one is internal.  Thoughts?

Thank you

Dave

 

What size needles  do the two airbrushes have ? You may need to adjust viscosity and air pressure accordingly.

jcfay

For someone coming back to modeling who used to use Future, it looks like it isn’t available any more as a brand. What are people using these days? I imagine there’s a Pledge or some other brand analog...

 

It's Pledge Floor Finish. I have it and used it for a while but since switched to Liquitex Professional Varnishes in matte, satin and gloss and ended up liking that better for various reasons.  I buy them at Micheals when I get a 50% off coupon in the email, which is surprisingly often when you sign up for their rewards coupon program. I'll probably never use Pledge again.

oldermodelguy

It's Pledge Floor Finish. I have it and used it for a while but since switched to Liquitex Professional Varnishes in matte, satin and gloss and ended up liking that better for various reasons.  I buy them at Micheals when I get a 50% off coupon in the email, which is surprisingly often when you sign up for their rewards coupon program. I'll probably never use Pledge again. 

Thanks for the info, folks.  I'm curious about the liquitex - you spray them?  Dilute them at all, and if so, using what?  

jcfay

 

 

 Thanks for the info, folks.  I'm curious about the liquitex - you spray them?  Dilute them at all, and if so, using what?

 

This could get a little long. But first let me say that I have a bottle of Pledge that is under my sink and been sitting there for at least a year now since I came to try the Liquitex varnishes. That bottle was basically clear liquid once , it is now yellow.

Liquitex professional varnish is milky looking but dries crystal clear. It comes as thin liquid and has UV inhibitors in it.

I spray them yes. From either my trusty old Badger 200 or my newer Paasche H. I use them as overcoat, as well as in acrylic paints  to get the sheen I want and also improve adhesion and flex and to protect some what fragile craft paints I use a lot of ( craft paint isn't so fragile with some varnish in it by the way, not to mention over it, it's come to be a whole new rescource of color for me, i'm glad to pay between $.60 and $1.50 for 2 oz of paint and get teh colors I want). The viscosity of the varnish is ready to spray, when added to colors I just thin as usual with my own home made thinner to get the paint to the viscosity I spray at and actually the varnish itself thins it some already ( i never mix paint by a ratio but by viscosity, always have even when shooting 1:1 vehicles for 30 years). My thinner has Liquitex retarder in it and has been, so far, compatible with every acrylic paint I've sprayed. But when I shoot the clear on it's own, it's already thin enough, I put in a touch of Liquitex airbrush medium and retarder, sometimes flow aid as well but not usually.  Liquitex airbrush medium is a very strong adhesive acrylic base that will go in many acrylic paints and stretch their base  ( not all, it will fish eye in some) and made to be used with Liquitex products for spraying of course. It is about the same consistency as the varnish itself. Between that and retarder though, I get the flow I want and dry times I'm looking for, which gives workong time and less tip dry if any at all..

Honestly I've never shot the varnish straight from the bottle I've always added to it or it to something else. I should shoot it straight up later today so I can give you an accurate report on that. Keep an eye on this thread I'll be back , if not today then tomorrow. I'm doing some color tests today anyway so I'll play with the varnish straight up and let you know how it does. Meanwhile I hope any of this helps.

I conducted a quick test spraying the three Liquitex varnishes straight from the bottle with my Badger 200 and medium tip ) I believe it's a .5 nozzle/needle combo), metal color cup shot at 18psi running pressure ( air valve depressed, gauge set to 18psi). I think the gloss could have used a bit more pressure and or certainly benefits most from using my regular method of additives. It went on a little rough, dried pretty level though, about like a 1970's solvent based acrylic enamel finish would dry. It's better with additives, though admittedly I could have boosted the pressure. The other two went on pretty decent, the matte could use a little thinning to get the film thickness I like for mattes but dried flat and very level.. The satin did well and is a true satin or luster finish but it may have a touch of my formula in it from returning small amounts of unused material back to the bottle.. All three produced more tip drying than when I use retarder as part of my blend. Upping the pressure would probably make that worse and I wouldn't shoot this stuff with any less than the 18psi straight from the bottle. I know with the Paasche H it does best around 28 psi blended..

The consistency out of the bottle is a little heavier than I am used to spraying ( closer to light cream than 2% milk), I had to open up the needle more than I like which produced larger droplets size than I'm used to as well fwiw. I never shoot this stuff this way so it was interesting to observe lol. I hate putting on blops of paint even though it levels out and that's what it reminds me of, so I won't be doing it this way again.

Thanks oldermodelguy- super helpful.  I’ll definitely be ordering or picking up some of the liquitex products in the next day or two.  I’ve been unable to find standard pledge anyway (I remember having a hard time finding plain Future 10 years ago, so I wasn’t surprised by this).  

Could you talk a bit more about the thinner you’re using with liquitex?  You mention the retarder but I’m curious about what you’re using exactly to thin the varnish.  Thanks again