help with gravity feed airbrushes

You can get a Badger Sotar here for $95.  You won't do much better in quality or fine lines.

You might want to read this thread.

Don

 I have owned a Badger for years and it has never failed me. I would also suggest looking at both Grex and Skybow.

You get what you pay for. Cheap isn't necessarily good or satisfying. Save your pennies a while longer until you can afford to get the right tool the first time...you'll be glad you did.

Come'on back now, ya'hear!

Have any of you ever heard of Master airbrushes? They appear to be the same bodies and specs as Iwata.

modelbuilder

Have any of you ever heard of Master airbrushes? They appear to be the same bodies and specs as Iwata.

Appearances can be deceptive. There are a great many airbrushes which have a similar appearance to Iwata's brushes.

The Master range are Chinese-made "clones". Check out Don Wheeler's mini-review of the Master G-22 http://airbrushtips.110mb.com/Master%20G22%20Airbrush.html

I don't know whty they're not very popular.but you may also wish to check out Sparmax (and the rebadged Premi-Air G-35).  

Phil_H

modelbuilder:

Have any of you ever heard of Master airbrushes? They appear to be the same bodies and specs as Iwata.

 

Appearances can be deceptive. There are a great many airbrushes which have a similar appearance to Iwata's brushes.

The Master range are Chinese-made "clones". Check out Don Wheeler's mini-review of the Master G-22 http://airbrushtips.110mb.com/Master%20G22%20Airbrush.html

I don't know whty they're not very popular.but you may also wish to check out Sparmax (and the rebadged Premi-Air G-35).  

Phil

Thanks for that review. I saw several Master airbrushes on ebay. Think I may go with one or two of them

modelbuilder

Phil_H:

modelbuilder:

Have any of you ever heard of Master airbrushes? They appear to be the same bodies and specs as Iwata.

Appearances can be deceptive. There are a great many airbrushes which have a similar appearance to Iwata's brushes.

The Master range are Chinese-made "clones". Check out Don Wheeler's mini-review of the Master G-22 http://airbrushtips.110mb.com/Master%20G22%20Airbrush.html

I don't know whty they're not very popular.but you may also wish to check out Sparmax (and the rebadged Premi-Air G-35).  

Phil

Thanks for that review. I saw several Master airbrushes on ebay. Think I may go with one or two of them

If you MUST get a Master brand airbrush, get their G-44 model. You can do reasonably fine line with it if you are very skillful in airbrush. See this review. It is not the G-44, but one made in the same factory and same model. The Master is an Iwata knock-off made in China. It may look the similar on the outside, it is completely different inside. You may get the same 0.2 mm nozzle, but you cannot paint as fine a line with the Master AB as the Iwata because the needle shape is very different.

You said that you want to paint "ultra fine lines". Not sure what you mean by that. The Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Silverline Solo is a good bid for you. It is much cheaper than the high end Iwata. It costs more than the Master, but worth every penny of it. For general purpose modeling, you cannot beat the value of the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS which is capable of very fine lines too. Good luck and let us know how fine your new airbrush can paint.

Thanks for all of the help guys. What really attracted me to the Iwatas is the micro air adjustment and ability to set the trigger pull. Besides the Master brand are there any others with these features. I can probably manage between $90 and $100 if I have to on one. What are your thaughts on the Paasche Talon? I have a Paasche Millinium series set with all three needles, tips, and caps. Only thing I dont like is the siphon feed, never have been a fan of that. I tried the Testors Aztec but got aggrevated with the tips. Also I am looking to paint lines similar to the fine lines in the review posted by Keilau

modelbuilder

Thanks for all of the help guys. What really attracted me to the Iwatas is the micro air adjustment and ability to set the trigger pull. Besides the Master brand are there any others with these features. I can probably manage between $90 and $100 if I have to on one. What are your thaughts on the Paasche Talon? I have a Paasche Millinium series set with all three needles, tips, and caps. Only thing I dont like is the siphon feed, never have been a fan of that. I tried the Testors Aztec but got aggrevated with the tips.

James Bella had an early review on the Talon at Armorana. It is very detailed. I don't have a Talon, but my impression from the web is that it is not quite up to the league of the H&S  or Iwata. One comment that I often heard is that the Talon is top (head) heavy.

It is a good idea to find the airbrush locally and hold it in your hand before buying it. This applies to all airbrush purchase.

modelbuilder

Also I am looking to paint lines similar to the fine lines in the review posted by Keilau

This is how they draw "ultra fine lines". The Master AB will not cut it.

What about an H&S Ultra?

OK, it doesnt have the needle or cup range of the Evolution, but for about $80 you will have a high quality, precision made airbrush. It comes with an 0.2mm needle & has the option of an 0.4mm.

All of the replies have really helped out. Ive spent several hours reading about and comparing all of the ones mentioned and to really get the airbrush with the features I want at a price that I can afford I think Im gonna have to go with either a Master G43, G44, or G45. Thanks for all of the help.

Before you buy, take a look at Badger's current line up. I had the opportunity to play with both the "Velocity" and the "Patriot Arrow" this weekend and I cant say enough good things. They are cost effective wich sounds like is very important. They are both well balanced and backed by the factory right here in the U.S. One problem you may face when buying a foreign nock off is trying to source parts down the road. The airbrush that only cost $50.00 today will be useless without parts and support some time down the road.

I am speaking from experience. I am currently using a "knock off" and all though I was sold by it's appearance, the quality of the brush and the results ARE NOT the same. And parts???? forget it, knowbody even seems to know exactly how to find or contact the manufacturer.

For $100 for an ultra-fine brush, I'd go with the Badger Sotar.   It's neck & neck with a Micron for detail work.  Probably sits between a Micron-B and Micron-C.  

It's not just the size of the needle and nozzle. It's the small feeling of the brush, the lighter cup, the "pointability" of the brush that allows one to do detail work.

Chinese knockoffs have quality control issues. If I were to get one, I'd swap out the needle and trigger for a Iwata needle and trigger.  Then tune up the brush a little.  

brickshooter

For $100 for an ultra-fine brush, I'd go with the Badger Sotar.   It's neck & neck with a Micron for detail work.  Probably sits between a Micron-B and Micron-C.  

It's not just the size of the needle and nozzle. It's the small feeling of the brush, the lighter cup, the "pointability" of the brush that allows one to do detail work.

The size of the nozzle matters. But the taper of the needle counts more. (Badger calls the needle taper cone angle "linear airflow angle".) Try to get one with an angle of 5-6 degrees which indicates a long and slander taper of the needle. And avoid needle with a double cone. These is important in painting "ultra fine lines". Don Wheeler gave some measure of different needles on his website.

If the manufacturer does not post of the size of the nozzle, be careful about that airbrush.

I like the medium weight (about 100-110 grams with gravity cup) and well balanced airbrush in my hand. Light weight AB does not feel right. But this is personal.

Chinese knockoffs have quality control issues. If I were to get one, I'd swap out the needle and trigger for a Iwata needle and trigger.  Then tune up the brush a little.  

I have not seen one single konck-off that you can use the Iwata needle on. They were made different in diameter on purpose to avoid copyright issue. You are right the the Chinese needle is not up to the standard of Iwata, but it may not look too bad (in shape, polish and springiness) compared to some American made brand.

keilau

brickshooter:

For $100 for an ultra-fine brush, I'd go with the Badger Sotar.   It's neck & neck with a Micron for detail work.  Probably sits between a Micron-B and Micron-C.  

It's not just the size of the needle and nozzle. It's the small feeling of the brush, the lighter cup, the "pointability" of the brush that allows one to do detail work.

 

The size of the nozzle matters. But the taper of the needle counts more. (Badger calls the needle taper cone angle "linear airflow angle".) Try to get one with an angle of 5-6 degrees which indicates a long and slander taper of the needle. And avoid needle with a double cone. These is important in painting "ultra fine lines". Don Wheeler gave some measure of different needles on his website.

If the manufacturer does not post of the size of the nozzle, be careful about that airbrush.

I like the medium weight (about 100-110 grams with gravity cup) and well balanced airbrush in my hand. Light weight AB does not feel right. But this is personal.

Chinese knockoffs have quality control issues. If I were to get one, I'd swap out the needle and trigger for a Iwata needle and trigger.  Then tune up the brush a little.  

 

I have not seen one single konck-off that you can use the Iwata needle on. They were made different in diameter on purpose to avoid copyright issue. You are right the the Chinese needle is not up to the standard of Iwata, but it may not look too bad (in shape, polish and springiness) compared to some American made brand.

Good points and I will keep in mind when buying. I watched a review of the Iwata and the G44 on this site last night, http://theairbrushforum.com/equipment-basics/1142-review-iwata-hp-ch-vs-ab180-master-g44.html, they both seem to perform very well. And I also found that the provider that sells the G44 also has all of the parts for it as well as spare needles. I looked at the badgers and have actually owned one at one time. It may have been due to my inexperience but I had nothing but trouble out of the badger. The Iwata by far is the best. Would love to get a custom micron but those are way out of my price range. Im not expecting to get a AB that will last forever at the cost of $60 but for now it will be good. Hopefully in the future I can get an Iwata

modelbuilder

Good points and I will keep in mind when buying. I watched a review of the Iwata and the G44 on this site last night, http://theairbrushforum.com/equipment-basics/1142-review-iwata-hp-ch-vs-ab180-master-g44.html, they both seem to perform very well. And I also found that the provider that sells the G44 also has all of the parts for it as well as spare needles. I looked at the badgers and have actually owned one at one time. It may have been due to my inexperience but I had nothing but trouble out of the badger. The Iwata by far is the best. Would love to get a custom micron but those are way out of my price range. Im not expecting to get a AB that will last forever at the cost of $60 but for now it will be good. Hopefully in the future I can get an Iwata

I have a PowerCat 203, which, for all practical purpose, the same as the Fengda BD-180 except a smaller cup. It is a fine airbrush until you try an Iwata or a H&S. If you are on a limited budget, it is an acceptably capable, temporary substitute. TCP does carry the spares and ship at very reasonable cost.

The main difference "to me" is the precision in the double action trigger. The silky smoothness of the Iwata/H&S trigger give you the sense of in control. By comparison, the Fengda trigger (and the Master) is loose. The looseness of the trigger can be overcome with practices and experience, but it sure takes some of the fun out of airbrushing. Some other complained of the Fengda trigger being too tight. It is a matter of lack of quality control.

Another difference was pointed out by Don Wheeler. The Fengda airbrush is going to be more difficult to keep clean. There is a channel about 1/4 inch deep between the rear of the cup and the needle seal that is difficult to get to. On the other hand, the Iwata HP-CS and the Harder & Steenbeck does not have the recess. The back of the cup goes straightly down into the airbrush body to form a smooth wall. The needle disappears into a tiny hole on the wall that is easy to see. The paint is easy to flush out when there is no recess behind the cup.

We all understand the like and dislike of an airbrush is very personal. The above is just my 2 cents.