first airbrush - help please! - FineScale Modeler - Essential magazine for scale model builders, model kit reviews, how-to scale modeling, and scale modeling products

four-star

Member since
August 2004
From: UK

first airbrush - help please!

Posted by four-star on Saturday, August 28, 2004 7:59 AM

Hi, I'm about to buy my first airbrush, and I've decided that I will probably buy an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. I was just wondering if any of you experienced airbrush users could let me know if this airbrush is suitable for use with enamel paints (when thinned of course) using the factory fitted needle and nozzle (0.35mm) - I want to be able to acheive a high level of detail, but also be able to spray reasonably wide areas as well (e.g. 40-50mm)? Also, is it necessary to use a braided hose when using a compressor (as opposed to a vinyl hose) - I guess braided hoses are stronger? My last question is what are crown caps - I think they are something to do with detail work but I don't really know - is it worth buying one? If anyone could answer these questions for me I would be extremely grateful - Thanks Smile [:)]

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Saturday, August 28, 2004 9:00 AM

The Iwata guys will be along soon enough to answer your questions. They are like vultures waiting to pounce on something Big Smile [:D]

I use Badger brushes, and while I have both a braided and vinyl hose I actually prefer the vinyl hose. The braided hose is bigger, heavier, and gets in my way a not more than the small vinyl hose does. The braided one is probably much stronger, but I've had my vinyl hose about 12 years and it's still going strong.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 28, 2004 9:24 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by bezics

Hi, I'm about to buy my first airbrush, and I've decided that I will probably buy an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. I was just wondering if any of you experienced airbrush users could let me know if this airbrush is suitable for use with enamel paints (when thinned of course) using the factory fitted needle and nozzle (0.35mm) - I want to be able to acheive a high level of detail, but also be able to spray reasonably wide areas as well (e.g. 40-50mm)?

It is fine with enamels and should suit your needs very well.

QUOTE: Also, is it necessary to use a braided hose when using a compressor (as opposed to a vinyl hose) - I guess braided hoses are stronger?

I have always used the braided hoses myself but as MusicCity said the vinyl ones are fine also. I believe the only advantage to the braided ones is that they have a better resistance to being scuffed and worn through because of the tougher outer surface.

QUOTE: My last question is what are crown caps - I think they are something to do with detail work but I don't really know - is it worth buying one?

The crown caps are designed to allow you to paint with less paint buildup around the aircap. The cutouts on the crown cap lessens the available area for the paint to build up on so that airflow is not disrupted as much. I don't know how well they work on the Iwata's but the ones for the Badger's work very well.
I think Chris (SaltyDog) has one so let him give his opinion when he reads this as he has used them hands on.
John (jfrejo) may also have something to add as he does a lot of tinkering with things like this in airbrush design.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:33 AM

bezics, you are a wise man friend, the hp-cs is a wonderful airbrush. the advice given above is right on the money. i'd go with the braided hose. as for the crown cap, yes, it will allow you to move in close with the brush and will perform as designed, but you could live without as well. some how or other, i lucked up and got a crown cap with my eclipse order from dixieart for free. can't say it'll happen to you, but it did for me.

QUOTE: The Iwata guys will be along soon enough to answer your questions. They are like vultures waiting to pounce on something

scott, take a look at the first 2 posters to the draw friend!! Badger pukes!!!LOL we iwata users are like the marines, the few, the proud!! Badger users are a dime a dozen!! Wink [;)]

later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:52 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog
we iwata users are like the marines, the few, the proud!!

I think this would be more fitting, "The few, the overly proud." Tongue [:P]

Maybe you Iwata guys are like Marines but us Badger users are like the UK's elite SAS.
We don't have to toot our own horn because the world knows how efficient we are. Wink [;)]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 28, 2004 11:37 AM

Personally if I am spraying close with my airbrushes I leave the aircap/crown cap off . If your affraid of damaging the needle then I would recommend getting a crown cap, they do make a difference for all the mentioned reasons. The gaps in the aircap also cut down on turbulent air when spraying close to you piece.
John

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:15 PM

Yeah you got the airbrush for very fine detail and up to (& over) a 4 to 5 cm pattern. I have an Eclipse HP-BS. The BS stands for "the CS cup is too big". The NoBS Beaver Airbrush Company has a Woodbeck Azbeck that sprays up to a 4 to 5 mile pattern and has a 55 gallon color cup.

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:36 PM

MIke, i believe you've tooted a couple a horns for Badger around here friend!!! Wink [;)]

if not stood on a few horns!!LOL and speaking of tooting a horn, you don't think backing a dumptruck load of free airbrushes into your garage, sending you on a free trip, and giving 40% discounts on badger junk products is just a touch of "tooting"?!! Tongue [:P]

iwata ain't gotta do that to sell there products friend. they just rely on quality, reliability, excellence. later. Big Smile [:D]

(don't worry people, this is just friendly bantering between 2 stubborn, fiercely loyal to airbrush brands, folks)

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

Reply

four-star

Member since
August 2004
From: UK

Posted by four-star on Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:05 PM

Thanks for your comments everyone!

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

Yeah you got the airbrush for very fine detail and up to (& over) a 4 to 5 cm pattern. I have an Eclipse HP-BS. The BS stands for "the CS cup is too big". The NoBS Beaver Airbrush Company has a Woodbeck Azbeck that sprays up to a 4 to 5 mile pattern and has a 55 gallon color cup.

jdavidb - I was looking at the HP-CS as opposed to the HP-BS because I thought that the cup looked too small on the BS - maybe not - what sort of surface area can you spray with your HP-BS before having to refill it?

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:46 PM

QUOTE: jdavidb - I was looking at the HP-CS as opposed to the HP-BS because I thought that the cup looked too small on the BS - maybe not - what sort of surface area can you spray with your HP-BS before having to refill it?

It's hard to say because of the variety: enamel, lacquer, acrylic, flat, gloss, everything covers differently along with how much overlapping winds up happening for a particular paint on various different kinds of surfaces. The choice of a large or small cup isn't much about area coverage. It's no hassle at all to add more to the cup, and it is very rare that I have to. I know when the job is gonna be bigger than what that cup holds, so I just get it all ready in a jar. So, 95% of the time, that cup is enough. The other 5% of the time, adding more to it is no problem. While 100% of the time, I don't have a big cup on my airbrush. So it's mainly just because I like not having that big cup on top of what I'm airbrushing with.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 28, 2004 2:02 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

Yeah you got the airbrush for very fine detail and up to (& over) a 4 to 5 cm pattern. I have an Eclipse HP-BS. The BS stands for "the CS cup is too big". The NoBS Beaver Airbrush Company has a Woodbeck Azbeck that sprays up to a 4 to 5 mile pattern and has a 55 gallon color cup.

LOL Man you guys put me with the Aztek... sigh. When I think of something funny to say back to that... until then, I'll lye in wait like an Anaconda... a very hungry Anaconda
Salty's your man for those shiny $100 plus dorrstops Iwata makes. When youre ready for a real mans ab let up Badger guys know ok Wink [;)]

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Edit

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 28, 2004 2:51 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog
[and speaking of tooting a horn, you don't think backing a dumptruck load of free airbrushes into your garage,

There was a dumptruck full of airbrushes? Man I must have missed that. Boohoo [BH]

QUOTE: sending you on a free trip, and giving 40% discounts on badger junk products is just a touch of "tooting"?!!

Not tooting Chris, good customer relations. Tongue [:P]

QUOTE: iwata ain't gotta do that to sell there products friend.

They are too stuck up to give out free products. Laugh [(-D]

QUOTE: they just rely on quality, reliability, excellence.

You are right Chris, they are the only "quality" airbrush made.
Just like Mercedes is the only good car. Tongue [:P]

QUOTE: later. (don't worry people, this is just friendly bantering between 2 stubborn, fiercely loyal to airbrush brands, folks)

I found a smiley for this discussion Chris:

Although we are not quarreling, just good, old fashioned ribbing.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Saturday, August 28, 2004 4:31 PM

you're impossible mikey!!!LOL later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

Reply

MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 28, 2004 4:52 PM

Impossible? How so buddy? Big Smile [:D]

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:57 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

Yeah you got the airbrush for very fine detail and up to (& over) a 4 to 5 cm pattern. I have an Eclipse HP-BS. The BS stands for "the CS cup is too big". The NoBS Beaver Airbrush Company has a Woodbeck Azbeck that sprays up to a 4 to 5 mile pattern and has a 55 gallon color cup.

Don't forget the free 25HP, 125 gal compressor that comes with it... quiet as a mouse....

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 28, 2004 9:16 PM

hey mike what's the number if I live in canada (which I do) and how much does it cost per minute to call or isti toll free? that's because I don't want a NoBS woodtek azbeck

That's right, saltydog. I'm getting a badger

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Saturday, August 28, 2004 9:37 PM

1337,

I am not sure what the call will cost you but the number is 630-543-9160.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Saturday, August 28, 2004 11:04 PM

rock on 3713!!LOL. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:50 AM

25 hp and 125 gal tank!!!! Thats me!!!.... Thats me!!!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:51 AM

wait a tick....

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 29, 2004 3:52 AM

youre picking on me again arent you!!!! You guys (in a Ben Stiller voice)!!!!

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:52 AM

I'm glad that compressor's amp draw only requires 1 nuclear power facility

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four-star

Member since
August 2004
From: UK

Posted by four-star on Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:15 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

QUOTE: jdavidb - I was looking at the HP-CS as opposed to the HP-BS because I thought that the cup looked too small on the BS - maybe not - what sort of surface area can you spray with your HP-BS before having to refill it?

It's hard to say because of the variety: enamel, lacquer, acrylic, flat, gloss, everything covers differently along with how much overlapping winds up happening for a particular paint on various different kinds of surfaces. The choice of a large or small cup isn't much about area coverage. It's no hassle at all to add more to the cup, and it is very rare that I have to. I know when the job is gonna be bigger than what that cup holds, so I just get it all ready in a jar. So, 95% of the time, that cup is enough. The other 5% of the time, adding more to it is no problem. While 100% of the time, I don't have a big cup on my airbrush. So it's mainly just because I like not having that big cup on top of what I'm airbrushing with.

Hey, I hate to interrupt you guys when you are all arguing in such a nice manner! Wink [;)]

Anyway, I'll be using enamel paints - sorry if you feel you have already answered this, but from experience, in general do enamel paints get used up in an airbrush faster than other paints such as lacquer or acrylic etc - or is the difference not so massive between each different type of paint? I don't want to buy the HP-BS and use it with enamel paint, only to find that enamel paint gets used up really fast, meaning that I have to be filling up the cup excessively frequently, if I could have got the HP-CS with a larger cup. I know you said it's no hassle to add more paint, but are we talking for example once every 5 minutes of continuous spraying on average, or once every 15 minutes (or more?) if spraying enamel from the HP-BS? I guess this might be hard to answer, but I really can't decide which version to buy - the BS or the CS... (by the way, possibly a stupid question, but what did you mean by overlapping?)

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:54 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

I'm glad that compressor's amp draw only requires 1 nuclear power facility

it's not that bad, it does cause a bit of a brown out in the neighborhood until the tank is full though. That's why I only fill mine during prime time TV.

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:10 AM

By overlapping I mean spraying over more than once in the same go-'round. Not really qualifying as multiple coats, just making wet coats a little thicker.

The biggest thing I ever do with a single color is a 1/24 car body. With enamel, I can 1-coat the whole thing with the hp-bs without refilling. Once the spraying starts, I'm done with that coat in about 3 mins. So, I guess it's a 3-minute-enamel color cup :)

Most people here seem to be not bothered by the larger color cups on their gravity feed airbrushes. I'm pretty sure that the preference for a smaller cup in model painting is rare.

With this being your first airbrush you might want to steer clear of more frequent refilling and have a bigger cup available for more practice time & getting the feel for how the paints go on when applied this way.

People here who use the bigger color cups could tell us how much paint they're really putting in there to paint larger chunks of models. That would help illustrate the difference.

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MusicCity

Member since
January 2004
From: USA

Posted by MusicCity on Sunday, August 29, 2004 7:00 AM

QUOTE: ... in general do enamel paints get used up in an airbrush faster than other paints such as lacquer or acrylic etc - or is the difference not so massive between each different type of paint?

It isn't the TYPE of paint (enamel, laquer, or acrylic) that causes one paint to be used at a faster rate than another, it's how well the paint covers. Thin paint doesn't cover well, so if your paint is very thin it will take more coats to cover the area. Higher pressures that cause a lot of overspray can also cause paint to be used excessively fast. Likewise, some colors (specifically white and yellow) cover very badly and may take several coats to cover properly.

As far as one particular TYPE of paint being used faster than another, I haven't really noticed that myself.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page

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saltydog

Member since
July 2003
From: Lower Alabama

Posted by saltydog on Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:14 AM

don't worry about the size of the color cup friend, you'll have plenty of paint to cover most subjects atleast once with a good coat of paint. my only gripe about an airbrush with an open color cup is, you're more apt to spill some paint from time to time, and your thinner will evaporate more rapidly from your paint, causing the viscosity to change the longer your spray sessions last, so my rec would be the HP-CS, as it has the color cup cap. i've noticed this on long, drawn out camo jobs. ofcourse, i remedy that by only putting a drop or 2 of paint in at a time, and the viscosity will stay consistent during the tedious fine line work of camo jobs. later.

Chris

The Origins of Murphy's Law: "In the begginning there was nothing, and it exploded."!!! _________ chris

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four-star

Member since
August 2004
From: UK

Posted by four-star on Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:47 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by saltydog

don't worry about the size of the color cup friend, you'll have plenty of paint to cover most subjects atleast once with a good coat of paint.

I take it you are talking about the HP-BS here?

Using the colour cap on the HP-CS can you leave paint in the the airbrush for extended periods of time or is this not a good idea? Can you not buy a cap for the HP-BS?

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jdavidb

Member since
August 2004
From: Kennesaw, GA

Posted by jdavidb on Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:25 PM

Another reason I like the smaller one... there is less inner wall to clean paint off of. Paint kinda dries on the walls as the paint level goes down.

I saw lids with these little things called storage buddies or something like that in Michael's art store the other day. I'm wondering if those would fit the hp-bs. They're flexible plastic. A friction lid made of metal would scratch up yer chrome. The lid needs an air hole if you find one that fits. I personally am not desiring a lid on the hp-bs. No lid is part of what makes refills quick & easy.

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MikeV

Member since
April 2003
From: Hayward, CA

Posted by MikeV on Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:02 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdavidb

Another reason I like the smaller one... there is less inner wall to clean paint off of. Paint kinda dries on the walls as the paint level goes down.

That is one reason I use the Badger 360 for smaller jobs.
It has a really small color cup which is easy to clean. Wink [;)]

For larger jobs I also prefer the bigger cups as they are less likely to spill.

Mike

“Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon

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first airbrush - help please!