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Airbrush Cleaning-what am I doing wrong?

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  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Airbrush Cleaning-what am I doing wrong?
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:24 PM

  Hey all,

   I have a Badger 360.   I use mainly MM Acryl's in it due to the ease of cleaning, but I'm not getting it cleaned right because after it sits for a while you cannot draw the needle back-it seizes up.  I end up disassembling it and cleaning dried paint off the needle about an inch or two back from the tip.  The way I clean is I clean out the cup by hand with a Q-tip and windex, and then run windex through it for a minute or so while simultaneously actuating the needle from closed to wide-open.  After it sprays clear for about another minute, I then run plain water through it for about the same amount of time.  I can disassemble it completely and clean the needle off as well, but after all this if I re-insert the needle, then pull it out again, it still has paint on it.  What am I doing wrong?

     I also would like to switch to enamels, but I still will have the same problem, and in addition I'm not sure what cleaner to use because I've heard there's a Teflon o-ring in there somewhere which may be damaged with the wrong cleaner.  What cleaner would you use for Model Master enamels?  I'm getting frustrated here.

 

                                           Thanks,

 

                                                    Chris

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 3:59 PM

I had similar issues, so now after each and every session, I completely take my airbrush apart and clean with windex.  No matter how much Windex I spray through the airbrush I always manage to get a lot more paint out if I flush windex through the body with all the parts removed. 

I think your issue is that you're not getting all the paint out of the body by just spraying running windex and water through it.  Squirt some windex through the body while it's all disassembled.

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:47 PM
you also need to back flush it a little when you run the windex through it,,,spray some as normal,then cover the tip with a rag and spray(it should bubble in the cup) this is back flushing,do it until there is no color left showing....you can also get some needle juice from Badger to lubricate things a bit....occassionally i also soak mine in a jewelers ultrasonic cleaner for about 10 minutes,and STILL see stuff come out,,,,it's just part of the proccess
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:49 PM

if you are using only acrylics the ultrasonic cleaner lone mentioned is a good buy.  I got one and it dissolves anything acrylic and even does well with enamels..

short of that, about every month or so I take the tip, head and needle and soak them in lacquer thinner for about an hour to all night... it cleans ANY type of paint out and will have your brush spraying like new again!!  Just be careful not to put the whole body in, just the removable parts..

things like you mentioned, and bad spray patterns (spatter, skipping etc) would key me to let it soak awhile in the lacquer thinner...

 

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:01 PM
 tho9900 wrote:

if you are using only acrylics the ultrasonic cleaner lone mentioned is a good buy.  I got one and it dissolves anything acrylic and even does well with enamels..

i use only MM enamels and it still does the trick,,,,the little vibrating bubbles have something magic in them

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:39 PM
Tiny bubbles, in the wine, make me happy, makes me feel fine!

So long folks!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:07 PM
::mesmerized look::  sing it Burl!!!  ::cough::  I mean Bill!  Wink [;)]  Ok that was a different song..
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: The Hoosier State
Posted by plasticmod992 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:55 PM

MM Acryl's are a bit tough to clean regardless of how thourough your regimine.  MikeV and I, as well as others shared our experiences with MM Acryl versus other acrylic paints, enamels and our cleaning routines.  Some modelers have even had to resort to using Laquer thinner to truely clean away MM Acryl after feeling confident that their airbrushes were cleaned out using Windex, Simple Green and the like.  I had the same issues as you are, and I had to switch to Tamiya acrylics.  The frustration with MM Acryls, regarding ease-of-use, thinning and cleaning were enough to warrant the brand switch for some.  I don't want to start another long thread about acrylics and the preferred paint, but I thought it was relevent, as your issues were directly on topic during MikeV's thread and subsequent posts.  Search "MM Acryls" or "I've had it with acrylics" for reference.  Hope this helps, good luck!

 

Greg Williams Owner/ Manager Modern Hobbies LLC Indianapolis, IN. IPMS #44084
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:23 AM

   Huh, okay.  So, I'm pretty much on the right track, just need to be a bit more thorough.

    A jeweler's ultrasonic cleaner?  How much are they and where can I get one?

    And as for backflushing-you know, I've been trying that too, but when I block off the front end and spray, nothing happens.  Nothing bubbles up in the cup. It just acts as if you're blocking off the airflow again.  I assume the needle and the tip have to be off, right? 

   I am relieved that at least I'm pretty much cleaning it right, just not ENOUGH, maybe.  Thanks all again for your help.  I love all the knowledge you can gain on this site-only posted about ten times and I already don't feel like Homer Simpson with a watercolor set anymore LOL.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:54 AM
You back flush while everything is still together.  Simply put your finger over the tip so nothing comes out, and push down the trigger while air is flowing, just as you would do if you were spraying on paint.  Instead of the air going through the tip and bringing paint with it, the air is forced back down the tube into the paint cup or paint jar.  That "blows" a lot of the paint out of the airbrush body, therefore leaving much less paint that will need to be cleaned out of the airbrush.

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:24 PM
Ok call me crazy... But is my wife and I the only ones left?

We run the usual cleaners through the AB and back flush when changing colors.

When we are done for the day or during "long" spraying sessions we take the AB apart, thoroughly and carefully clean it so it's like new again.

Are we over cleaning and waisting our time?

Humm... me thinks if we're careful things will run smoothly for years to come without great expense.

What do you guys think?

Confused [%-)]


-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:53 PM
I used to do a fairly simple cleaning, but I've lately discovered that short cutting the cleaning process doesn't work so hot. So now I do as you do, squirt cleaner through, backflush when changing colors, and do a serious bit of cleaning when done. I consider "wasting" time now to replace eliminating problems in the future to be a fair trade!

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:23 PM
Thanks Bill, I thought maybe I was going nuts and over cleaning unnecessarily.

Thumbs Up [tup]



-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

jwb
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Parkton, NC
Posted by jwb on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:28 PM
 jhande wrote:
Thanks Bill, I thought maybe I was going nuts and over cleaning unnecessarily.

Thumbs Up [tup]



I've only been using my airbrush a little over a month now, but I'm quickly finding there is almost no such thing as over cleaning. I short-cut cleaning one day, and the next time I sprayed, I had to clean it before using and afterwards....

Jon Bius

AgapeModels.com- Modeling with a Higher purpose

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." ~ Jeremiah 29:11

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:00 PM
 jwb wrote:
 jhande wrote:
Thanks Bill, I thought maybe I was going nuts and over cleaning unnecessarily.

Thumbs Up [tup]



I've only been using my airbrush a little over a month now, but I'm quickly finding there is almost no such thing as over cleaning. I short-cut cleaning one day, and the next time I sprayed, I had to clean it before using and afterwards....


I hear you Jon.

I remember long ago I didn't clean out my automotive spray gun like I normally do (Friday and in a hurry to party duh). Monday morning was a nightmare, besides a hangover I had to strip the gun down and chisel crud out for hours (boss wasn't happy).

I buy cleaning supplies when Wal*Mart has them on sale. The cashier rang me out - 4 gallons of paint thinner, 10 Qts. of Isopropyl Alcohol, 6 boxes of Q-Tips, tweezers, cuticle cutters (sprue cutter), cuticle pusher (burnishing tool), mustache sissors (for decals), 10 fingernail emery boards, and an air chisel (working on my truck). She asked me what I was going to do with all that stuff. I told her that I clean ears for a living. She looked at me strange for a moment and then asked, what's the air chisel for. I said those tough hard to get out wax build-ups. She just mushed her face and rushed me out.  Tongue [:P]

We clean real good when we're done, so next time we can just have fun.  Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: The cornfields of Ohio
Posted by crockett on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:09 PM

You need to coat your needle with petroleum jelly. If you wish you can buy the expensive airbrush lube, but generic petroleum jelly works fine. Lube the needle at every cleaning session. My 360 runs great. The thin coating of lube prevents acrylic paint from sticking to the needle and also promotes smooth paint lines and gives a silky double action trigger for precise control.

 

Steve

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:38 PM
 jhande wrote:
Thanks Bill, I thought maybe I was going nuts and over cleaning unnecessarily.

Thumbs Up [tup]





Oh no, you're still nuts, you're just not "over cleaning"! Tongue [:P] LOL!!

So long folks!

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:47 PM
 crockett wrote:

You need to coat your needle with petroleum jelly. If you wish you can buy the expensive airbrush lube, but generic petroleum jelly works fine. Lube the needle at every cleaning session. My 360 runs great. The thin coating of lube prevents acrylic paint from sticking to the needle and also promotes smooth paint lines and gives a silky double action trigger for precise control.

 

Steve



You're not getting any contamination using PJ? I thought petroleum based products were a no-no? I can see using KY jelly as it's water based, or glycerin (alcohol derived), but it's already bad enough that I'm buying finger nail sanding sticks... Whistling [:-^]

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:54 PM
!!!???Shock [:O]Blush [:I],i've been using the oil from my hair clippers,i'm getting spatter with a clean AB and thinned paint,i'm wondering if this is the culprit?,anyone?
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:58 PM
That's what I hear happens if you use an oil based product. You get spatter in your paint.

I have a bottle of Iwata-Medea SuperLube, which admittingly is very expensive, but since I use less than a dab each use, I figure the bottle is going to last me 5 yrs at least.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:01 PM
Censored [censored]Sign - With Stupid [#wstupid]Banged Head [banghead],why didn't i think of that?....as soon as i read your post it hit me like a brick.....i guess i'll clean it again to remove the oil,,,,,,any household products that you recommend?.the closest HS is about an hour away
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:16 PM
You could use glycerin or KY Jelly, available at your local drug store.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:45 PM

Iwata specifically warns about using petroleum based products as a needle lube.  Specifically light machine oils are called out (clipper oil?).  They are listed as causing "gumming" of the internal parts and other hinderences, I'll have to find my manual to see what else they list.

I agree with Bill, my bottle of Regdab was $5 and I've used it for 2 yrs now and it is more than 3/4 full.  A small price to pay to be sure..

I have heard glycerin from the drug store works just as well though...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: USA
Posted by MusicCity on Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:40 AM

I used to do a fairly simple cleaning, but I've lately discovered that short cutting the cleaning process doesn't work so hot. So now I do as you do, squirt cleaner through, backflush when changing colors, and do a serious bit of cleaning when done. I consider "wasting" time now to replace eliminating problems in the future to be a fair trade!

Cleaning an airbrush is much like the old Purolator oil filter commercial; "Clean me now or clean me later, and it will cost more if you clean me later".  The bottom line is that sooner or later you will take the time to get the paint out, it's just a question of whether you want to spend a little time while the paint is still wet or a lot of time after it has caked up the airbrush.

I have a friend who was having airbrush troubles, and he swore that his airbrush was squeaky clean.  I told him to completely disassemble it and soak it in lacquer thinner overnight and see what happened.  Next day he said he couldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of it.  I told hime to do it again, and this time get some small interdental brushes to brush it out.  Follow that up with compressed air.  He said there was no reason to since he was certain everything was out of it now.  Next day he said he couldn't believe the amount of crud that came out of it.

No matter how clean you think your airbrush is, it can always be cleaner.  Lacquer thinner works great for most all-steel airbrushes as it will dissolve nearly every kind of paint we use for modeling.  An ultrasonic cleaner also works great.  I use both and have even gone so far as to use mineral spirits in my ultrasonic cleaner.

Scott Craig -- Nashville, TN -- My Website -- My Models Page
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:47 AM
   Tell me more about this "ultra-sonic" cleaner.  Where can you get one?  How much is it?  Do you use the same solvent in it you would use in regular cleaning, like Windex or lacquer thinner or what-have-you?

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: White Mountains, NH
Posted by jhande on Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:40 AM
 Bgrigg wrote:

Oh no, you're still nuts... Tongue [:P] LOL!!


Thanks for confirming that Bill. Wink [;)]

With all who have told me that, then I guess I must be!  Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Propeller [8-]

-- Jim --
"Put the pedal down & shake the ground!"

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:04 PM
you can get an ultasonic cleaner in Wal Mart's jewlery dept..about 20.00,get some of the extra cleaning fluid for it,,,,,,thin it down as recomended
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:46 PM

The one at the jewelry counter at the local Wal Marts is a Sonic cleaner, cleans ok but not as good as the ultrasonic,  I was so anxious to get one I ran out and bought it and didn't realize till I opened the box it wasnt ultrasonic.  The sonic cleaner cleans at about 6k Hz I think, the Ultrasonic at around 44k Hz., it will scrub the shine off a penny! 

You can get them online from Amazon, Target or Wal Mart (make sure they say ULTRA sonic).. Bed Bath and Beyond has them in stock in the store too... they're about $45 but worth every penny.  I just dunk the parts in for 3 or so cycles and it's done! 

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Thursday, June 29, 2006 6:04 PM
   Rock on.  Thanks guys.  I think I'll pick one up.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Thursday, June 29, 2006 6:45 PM
When you disassemble the airbrush at the end of the session to clean off the needle. run a pipe cleaner moistened with the appropriate thinner through the needle race to clean out any excess. Since this is pretty tight, you'll have to be careful the cleaner doesn't bend as you push it through. Won't damage the AB but you'll need another cleaner. You can also use these to clean the neck of the color cup and to absorb thinner at the bottom of the cup. Any tobaconnist carries these and you can use some of the craft ones as well, though they tend to be less absorbant and have a thicker wire base.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

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