Tamiya Paint

Though many people suggest it, don't use Windex to thin Tamiya acrylic paint.

For best results, in order of preference,

1: Tamiya thinner
2: Isopropyl Alcohol (90%)
3: Denatured Alcohol (ethanol)

If using (2) or (3) it may be advantageous to add a little acrylic retarder (Tamiya thinner is said to incorporate a retarder) to reduce the possibility of "tip dry".

The "2% milk" consistency is a reasonable starting point, though it can vary depending on your personal preference and setup. One thing I have found is that Tamiya acrylics can be thinned out far more than conventional wisdom dictates and not lose adhesion. It simply means spraying more coats to build up colour depth.

No wonder my AB gives me that "what if" look 

I am also new to acrylics.   Been a dyed in the wool enamel users for a long time.  I was aboutto ask this same question so this is good timing.

Still do have questions though.  Is there 1 brand of retarder that is beeter than the others?  Will any of them work in any acrylic paint?  I also tried MM acrylics and the big rock that was forming onthe end of the needle grew at an alarming pace.

Not trying to hijack the thread... but i figured as long as we were on the subject

Marc,

With retarders, there are several types for different kinds of paints.  Do not try to use a lacquer retarder with acrylics!  I tried MM acrylics in the past with similar results as you describe, and never tried them again.  My advice would be to get some Tamiya acrylic AND their brand of thinner (which already has a retarder in it) and use it to thin the paint.  Pick up a cheap bottle of 91% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning and flushing your airbrush- this will save you $$$ instead of using the expensive Tamiya thinner for AB cleaning.  I have never experienced tip-dry with thinned Tamiya paint, but if you don't thin it enough the AB with splatter something terrible!  I usually mix between 70-30 and 60-40 paint-thinner.  I switched over to acrylics years ago, and the only time I have used them was to paint a certain Tamiya 1/48 Do-335A for a certain GB!  Any other questions, just ask!

What Frank said, plus: Windex is a dynamite cleaner for Tamiya acrylics, too. Be sure to blow some water through after  using it though, as ammonia is not good for anything in an airbrush.

I thin Tamiya with 90% isopropyl, with a tiny drop of retarder in each cupful. The thing to remember, if you use this reducer, is that the retarder must be added to the reducing solvent and dispersed in the solvent before mixing with the paint. Never add retarder directly to the paint. I keep a bottle of premixed isopropyl with retarder handy. If I had a "local" LHS (closer than 40 miles) I'd probably use the Tamiya thinner for reduction, too.

As far as retarders go, any of the major artists brands seem to work: Liquitex, Golden, etc. Don't use the stuff you can buy in paint stores or the hardware store!

Triarius is spot on about the windex, i use it for final cleaning but never for thinning. i go so far as to use it for stripping fresh messups --i mean paint jobs! i also swear by tamiya. if you can get it though, gunze sprays awesome!

Phil_H wrote:

For best results, in order of preference, 1: Tamiya thinner 2: Isopropyl Alcohol (90%) 3: Denatured Alcohol (ethanol) If using (2) or (3) it may be advantageous to add a little acrylic retarder (Tamiya thinner is said to incorporate a retarder) to reduce the possibility of "tip dry".

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents here re: retarder.  This is a great idea- you can get dry tip really quickly with tamiya paints, and I've noticed that different colors seem to have this happen more prominently than others (i.e. using black v. white). 

Another way I've done this is to mix in a certain amount of straight water (distilled) with the alcohol, but it is harder to control. 

Are there any brands of retarder that you find work well for this? 

My -I use MM acrylic w/MM acrylic thinner-works well to minimize-not eliminate- dry tip.  Although you can shoot MM acrylic straight-a little thinner seems to assist.  However, I must admit that I get more consistant results using Tamiya acrylic w/Tamiya thinner.  However, MM acrylic has a broader line of color choices out of the bottle.

Also, I tried to mix Liquitex retardant w/90% alcohol and then that with MM Flat Black-ended up with a glob of paint in the mixing vessel.  Not sure if I had too much of one of the components, but I haven't experimented since-I'll just buy some MM Acrylic Thinner w/my Hobby Lobby coupon.....

I use ethyl alcohol and I have had good results with it.

Inquisitor wrote:

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents here re: retarder.  This is a great idea- you can get dry tip really quickly with tamiya paints, and I've noticed that different colors seem to have this happen more prominently than others (i.e. using black v. white).

You haven't seen tip dry until you spray Createx T-shirt paints at 60-80 psi.

I personally never use retarders in my Tamiya paints as I just go by the old, pick the dried paint off the needle with my fingernails trick that us T-shirt guys are so used to.  

Huh. Maybe it's just because I shoot my Tamiya stuff so thin - always 50/50% with isopropyl alcohol - but I've never had to use retarder with their stuff. Compare that to MM which I use solely for RLM and some FS colors (just because I'm colorblind, and can't match color samples to save my life) which will start giving me tip dry in a minute...or less. Using their own thinner, to boot. Never tried the iso with MM, but maybe I should.

Wish sometimes I could deal with the cleanup and smell of enamels, but water is much more pleasant to work with than turpentine.

Oh, and as for windex, that's what I use to clean my airbrush because it's so abrasive/corrosive. Can't imagine that does anything good to your paint finish or 'adherability'? 

Don't know how true it was, but there was a discussion on Tamiya thinners a while back on HS, and one guy said he'd actually done a lab analysis on it, and it turned out to basically be a mixture of alchohol that was about 90% alchohol, and it had some fragrance in it. He said that to recreate it, mix a certain amount of the 91% stuff with some of the 70% stuff, and throw in some Old Spice.

Like I said.... don't know how true it was, but thought I'd mention it.

I'm switching from PS to Tamiya. I like the range of colors available in PS, but no matter what I do- thin it, add retarder, shoot at lower pressure, add lube to the needle- PS always gives me tip dry. Tamiya- even shot straight- has not done it.

Only gripe I have is the need to mix colors. But it airbrushes very well.

I'll still keep some PS on hand for brush painting though.

Jon, sounds like he was being "creative." Such analyses cost major amounts of money (I used to do that sort of thing, or have it done by others.) Something in the $500 to $1000 dollar range.

From the MSDS, the thinner is 90% isopropyl alcohol, a small amount of acrylic retarder, and a trace of fragrance.

I also just repiled to a fellow over on ARC who is having adhesion troubles with Tamiya acrylics—and he's essentially doing everything right. Any comment on recently purchased Tamiya?

Triarius wrote:

I thin Tamiya with 90% isopropyl, with a tiny drop of retarder in each cupful. The thing to remember, if you use this reducer, is that the retarder must be added to the reducing solvent and dispersed in the solvent before mixing with the paint. Never add retarder directly to the paint. I keep a bottle of premixed isopropyl with retarder handy. If I had a "local" LHS (closer than 40 miles) I'd probably use the Tamiya thinner for reduction, too. As far as retarders go, any of the major artists brands seem to work: Liquitex, Golden, etc. Don't use the stuff you can buy in paint stores or the hardware store!

 Living in the Reno area, the humidity is 10%-30%, causing Tamiya to skin over very quickly when brush painting. Can I add a bit of retarder to the unthinned paint to solve this?

As I said: generally, no.

Mix up a small bottle of 90% isopropyl with approximately 0.5 ml of retarder per 3 to 5 ml alcohol. Dip your brush in this before you start to brush paint, and periodically as you paint before reloading the brush.

You will also have this solution ready when it's time to airbrush. 

Since I have just started using Tamiya all my purchases are recent.  I wipe a heavy wash off of a Pz IV, yes… still doing tanks,  just last night and all the paint is in tact.   Took some fairly aggressive scrubbing in a few spots too.  No primer coat. As a matter of fact... no surfcae prep at all...didn't even wipe it down with alcohol.

I just read that using isopropyl alcohol will cause glossy paint to dry with a flat finish when using Tamiya. Is this true?

This thread has some great information, but I think for everything new you learn you just keep having more questions. :) So got my first set of Tamiya, not realizing that you have to do a lot of color mixing but I'll live. I also got a big thing of isopropyl alcohol 91%. From what I am reading I should use some kind of retarder in the mix but didn't find out if there was a brand I should be looking for and where. The easy option would be to use the Tamiya Thinner, but it sounds like it's basically alcohol with a retarder. I think I'm getting more and more confused by the minute. Can anyone just set me straight and tell me what a nube should start out doing?

Also, the guy at the LHS told me I could use Testors Acryl white primer as a base coat. Is it ok to mix brands like this? What do you guys use as a primer with Tamiya? Should I be thinning my primer like I would my other paints? 

Thanks,

Burt 

I usually use methylated spirits (ethyl alcohol) with my Tamiya flats. However, I have found that while it works ok with the flats, it dulls the gloss paints. It doesn't make them flat but it does lessen the sheen and makes them semi-gloss when dry. On the other hand, genuine Tamiya thinner renders a perfect glossy finish. 

As far as acrylic retarders go, they are generally similar (usually a blend of glycol and water) and I have seen Liquitex and Golden brands mentioned frequently on the forums.

Isopropyl at 90%+ should not dull a Tamiya gloss paint. Methylate spirits (denatured alcohol) will, because neither methyl nor ethyl alcohol are compatible with the binder used in Tamiya gloss paints.

Go to an artists supply store. Any retarder intended for use with artists acrylic paints should work well with modeling acrylics. Just remember to always add the retarder (a tiny drop will do ya) to the alcohol, then add that to the paint.

You can apply one brand of paint over another providing that the first paint is completely cured. That can take awhile under some conditions. Acrylics tend to dry quickly, but reach full cure slowly. Twenty-four hours is a minimum wait time, and it can extend to forty-eight.

I believe Testors Acryl line is "pre-thinned" (I don't like the idea.) The consistency of the paint to be sprayed should generally be similar to 2% milk or a little thinner, regardless of what the function of the paint is.

I use a Tamiya flat light gray as a general primer.

Triarius wrote:

I believe Testors Acryl line is "pre-thinned" (I don't like the idea.)

Unless Testor's has recently changed things, I don't believe that is correct.  None of the bottles of Acryl that I have bought were "pre-thinned" for air brushing, nor was anything obviuosly indicated on their labeling that they should be.   

On the other hand, I have had a couple of bottles of MM Enamels that were perfect for airbrushing straight from of the bottle, not because of any Testor's policy decision but simply poor quality control.  I've also seen nearly similar bottle to bottle variation in Tamiya paints.  Presumably if I bought more bottles of Acryl, I might well stumble into some samples that were airbrush ready straight form the bottle as well.

Andy