Pictures in FSM? Yeah, right

Gent's, I feel your pain. But on the other hand I can understand why most photos are not published. Being a photographer, sumitting photos for a major magazine is somewhat like submitting your best model at a contest..they have to be top-notch, period. 10 or so years ago before my photography skills had improved, I too sang the rants of many of you. But if the quality of the photo, not mention; if the photo subject is not what the magazine is looking for at the time..they simply will not publish it at that time or at all. Even if Senior Editor Paul Boyer takes the shot of your award-winning model at a contest...the same standard applies. There are hundereds of variables to take into concideration weather to accept or deny-even send back your photo: subject, composure, lighting, angle, clarity, focus, depth of field, etc. Like someone said in another post..they want to sell magazines with only the best content possible, from the latest advertisments to the text in the articles...so the photos (the visual essence of or hobby) have to top notch. I think FSM Magazine even tried to hint to us this fact several issues ago with a how-to for "taking photos of your models", to help us get our stuff in their magazine. We simply just have to improve our photography skills and I'll bet cha we'll all be seeing lots more model photos in the Reader Gallery. By the way, I learned most of my photography skills by reading, studying FSM magazine! Cheers, and good luck.

Some helpfull references:
http://www.okclive.com/flagship/photo.pdf
http://www.videoworkbench.com/photograph_scale_models.html

They should just publish a magazine with just pictures from the shows. That way the other 69% could be recognized.

Hey, you guys are complaining about not getting your pics in FSM??? I've been on the IPMS show circuit since 1992, and I have a wall of awards from Canada to Virginia, and FSM has been at most of them taking pics...

I try to build models that are unique, either subject or paint, and NOTHING I've ever put on the table has ever gotten that little red card saying they even wanted a photo!!!

I've sent stuff in that was done professionally, nice backgrounds, good lighting, etc., and yet I see pics of some guys airplane taken on his back porch, with the kids' swingset in the background.

I've given up...which is one reason why I work so hard on Modelwarships.com, it's my own private FSM.

I'm not holding a grudge or anything, because it's really not that important. I just don't understand their logic sometimes.

Personally, I'd prefer to see models from the likes of Massimo Barbieri, and learn his techniques. They post pics of his models, with a brief descripition. I want to know how he does it!

Jeff Herne
Modelwarships.com

A compilation issue would be nice. Above and beyond GSM. Maybe something a bit more substantial. But I tend to sympathise with the stet side. At least with the mag the way it is now. What trade off and who gets the short end of the stick. Less advertisers? Cost will go up. More pages, more costs will go up, for every page you add, you actually add 4 more pages so that means more printing, more shipping weight, more bindery costs etc. How much more are you willing to pay? How much more is everyone willing to pay.?The magazine isn't everything to everyone now. Figure guys get shorted, sci-fi feels snubbed, car guys get short changed, armor guys are inandated with something they don't model etc. So where do you begin and end? I agree that we all like that ego stroke of seeing our stuff in the magazine and getting the approval of our comrades in modeling. We do that little bit extra, not so much for ourselves but on that off chance that we will show off our endeavors to others and get their approval and admiration. It certainly not to have someone tell us it sucks.

Keep submitting if it so suits you, or not. Leopolds idea is intriuging. Start your own publication. You could set it up maybe to the regional level and photograph and print each of the contests entries. Sell it as an independent publication. It wouldn't be the first publication spawned from an underground idea. With the right marketing it could work. Isn't that the point of a free market society?

Its not an easy answer nor a light undertaking. I'll submit if you start one.

Mike

With my pics or not, I think FSM still remains to be an informative magazine for this hobby. Yes, there are some issues that I consider not as exciting as the others but that would be subjective. If you are a very experienced modeler, FSM's purpose for you might not be the same as someone who is new to the hobby. So I think whether there is some "gray" definition on how pictures are posted on either FSM or GSM, let's still be glad that for now there still is an informative and picture heavy magazine like FSM. I run a printing press and to tell you the truth, loading a magazine as thick as FSM ain't easy. There is a lot of planning and research done for this. Inserting pictures, I bet, is the least of their (the publisher's) problems.

'Just my opinion...

Noel

I think if anyone here has a problem with FSM and the way it's handled/published then I say why don't you step into their shoes and see if you can do better.

The fact that the overwhelming majority of the photos taken by FSM at shows do not get into the magazine is par for the course. Any good photographer will tell you that it can sometimes take a few dozen shots to get one great photo. I dunno what their selection process is, but you can bet that there's some rhyme or reason to it, not the least of which is space considerations in the rag.

Also, each ish is planned months ahead of time which partly accounts for the delays of photo spreads from shows. And, speaking personally, I kinda like the delay. All the shows that I go to are still fresh in my mind a month or two after they've taken place. For me, it's nice to have a visual reminder half a year later to get the BS sessions goin' with the Saturday Night Mafia...

As to the question "is this why we build models?", for some, yes, it is. Just because YOU don't care if your models get published in a rag or not doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel that way.

I think it'd be groovy to get published. Hell, I was invited to do an article a couple years back and was just too damn lazy to follow up on it; and they stopped calling after a few months. Am I bummed? Slightly, because if I'd jumped on it I woulda most likely had a few things published by now. Am I losing sleep over it? Not any more...

Give these folks a break, they do a damn fine job with the rag.


Fade to Black...

Erock, I agree with you, I'm sure at one point in time that it was everyone's dream to one day have their pic published for everyone to see!! But man, with the internet, and this wonderful supportive forum, do we really need our photos in the mag?

I have to agree what was said earlier in this thread...

I sent in pictures myself a few times and heard nothing back. Will I loose sleep over it, nope!

I build because I enjoy it. I post pics of my work here at the forums, and let the rest of my friends see it.

That is good enough for me.

Just a question to throw out to everyone: Is this why we build models? Do we do it only so we can puff our chest out and say "Yep. That's my model being featured in the magazine. Mine's in there and other's are not."? Is that why we build models and take them to competitions for "world class modelers"? Personally I love the mix of models which are shown in FSM. I like the ones that are a bit rough around the edges and I love the ones which are flawless to a fault. It shows me where I've been, where I am and, God willing, what I might possibly achieve. I've been in my fair share of local hobby shop contests (open to everyone, not just IPMS members) and I've "won" a bunch and I've "lost" a bunch. I like not getting the first place ribbon just as much as when I do get it because it bruises my ego and it makes me remember that I got into the hobby for fun. I've had a few pictures take on my planes and you know what? Those were never published either. Just be happy that someone thought enough of your work to do so and don't be upset, mad, frustrated, or any other emotion when you don't see your work in print. They didn't need to take a picture but they did. Be happy. It's an extra little bonus that you may not have been expecting. Now let's get back to remembering why we do our hobby in the first place.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Eric

QUOTE: Originally posted by unnamedplayer maybe those issues of only pic's for fsm subscribers? :)

unnamed does not go unnoticed

Long live the forum

Leopold.

Great post. IMO & IME every winning models has had some form of gimmick or eye-catcher that got them noticed.

Over here often the overall impact of the finished item is often more important than having high grade techniques. To be honest I was shocked at the level of finished models when I came over here, the guys here seem to be on a completely different level than I have seen overseas. And I am sure that they are on a par if not above the top IPMS guys.
Seen a few of the published Dio's and Kits that were published in real life at the HS and even bought one once.

One competition where I entered we had to fill in the entry form, one block was to give a kinda justification for the entry and why it was build the way it was, what did we try to achieve, represent, etc. makes you think about your entry. BTW, it was an open category anything was ok.

After the show the affiliated magazine did a cover of the winning Kits and had a small pic of EVERY kit entered into the contest with builders name.

Just my 2 cents of though.

Good point Leopold.

Is it luck, skill or a gimmick that gets you into a magazine? As one of the pathetic 1% who has made it into FSM magazine, I think it may be a mix of all three. Having been a modeler for over 35 years, 30 of which as an active competitor in numerous local and regional shows, I have had my share of joys and frustrations as to how my work has fared in the arena of open competition. I have often wondered why someone else's work had won the show, been photographed and applauded, and I walked away with nothing. I once even threw my second-place trophy in the garbage at the show in disgust. I honestly thought I should have won.
Over the years, I've learned a few things. One, it's not always the best model that wins. Usually (and hopefully) it is, but not always. Maybe the winning model just resonated somehow with a judge or two. Maybe their father served on that ship, in that plane, fought in that battle. Or maybe there was some gimmick; live smoke on the diorama, flickering lights in the spacecraft, spinning propellers on the plane, that wooed the judges favor? Sure, it was a good model, but so was mine, what put his over the top, when mine was just as good, at least in my opinion.
I consider myself to be a skilled modeler, as do most of us consider ourselves. We take pride in our workmanship and strive to produce the best looking model we possibly can. That's what this hobby is all about. So if we think our skill as a modeler is just as good as the guy who does win the show or get published in the magazine, why isn't our stuff getting the recognition we think it deserves? As pathetic as it may be, this is when I resort to gimmickry. And I think it is what got me into GSM 2003, on my very first attempt at getting published. What was the gimmick? It was the kitty cat on my Ambush at Bohl diorama. Don't believe me? Then why did he get his own photo? It caught the photographer's eye, it was something subtle, yet out of place, that catches the eye and registers a humorous thought in the mind of the beholder. This is something I now put in every diorama I make. If this sounds stupid, pick up Sheperd Paine's book How to build Dioramas and read the section on humorous ideas. What I'm saying is that little things like this is what help get you noticed, help win the shows and help get you published. Then there is just plain old LUCK. Just my worth.

maybe those issues of only pic's for fsm subscribers? :)

Stinger,

FSM has routinely run articles for newbies. For instance, they ran a whole series of articles called the "Finishing School" for several issues back in the late '80s or early '90s. I have two issues that cover applying decals, one from 1991 and one from 1999. Also, they seem to run an article every year on how to use an airbrush.

The real question is how often the magazine should feature instructions for beginners who, be definition, don't have a stack of old FSMs to dig through. For my money, I think the mix of advanced techniques and beginners' techniques is pretty well done.

Just some thoughts,

Gip

I am not surprised at all at the low percentage of pictures that actually make it to the magazine. I'll bet that Paul Boyer, Lawrence Hansen, et al, wish that their publication were three times thicker in order to present our world to the public. Unfortunately, they are bound by the financial limitations of producing a magazine (albeit the best one out there in this country) that has a relatively low readership compared to other enthusiast mags. I'm not necessarily defending them here, but just trying to look at it objectively.
As for the content of the pictures that are published, I feel that they generally show a good cross section of talent and usage of materials at hand, from scratchbuilding to OOB's. At first I was going to criticize their persistent mentioning of brand names used by modelers in the gallery, but then I realized that we do it here in the forum also.
My biggest criticism of the magazine is that they devote several pages showing a model conversion without showing the actual techniques involved in achieving it. For instance, the latest issue shows many photos of the NF104 in various states of modification, but they only show it after the mod's are finished. Like certain details "blended into the airframe with epoxy putty". They show it after it is all sanded nice and pretty, but they don't show it before that step, how the epoxy putty looked right after, or even how, it was applied. (And by the way, did anybody really get the thing about modeling water in that issue?) They assume that all their readers are experienced with these methods and materials, but they forget that many readers are new to all of this.And that brings up another thing.........
How about a few articles on the basics for the newbies. Like the difference between various glues, types of paints, etc.? We see these questions all the time here, and I also see how quickly and kindly members respond to those querys, but there are many modelers out there who only have money for models and not the good fortune of an internet access, or at least to the degree of it that we so enjoy.

Sorry for ranting and raving here, guys and gals. I guess the more I thought about it, the more I had to say, for what it's worth.

QUOTE: Originally posted by allan This might be a little off-topic, but what would you guys think of a "Forum Gallery" for once? That is, a gallery of model pics posted on this site. Theres just do many great models shown here.

Allan

I think a forum picture gallery would be perfect!
I feel that the forum has already formed itself into just such a thing, although in not quite such a formal way. Perhaps a new subject heading provided by the webmaster (is DVoss back yet?) would provide just such a place.

Many of us post pictures of our work in progress, and the finished work itself. Despite some complaints about images posted here, I personally look forward to seeing them. I feel that the comraderie here is warm and genuinely honest, and frankly, the information and exposure to the real world of our hobby is better represented here than any FSM issue I have ever read. Long live the Forum!

stinger

I sure hope it's the same guy Mike!!! Otherwise he may be in trouble!! Check it out on page 6, very first letter. His name is Tod Gobledale from Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia.

Hey kik36,
You've got to be kidding right!! I think I saw his post and a few of our friends answered him.
Or am I thinking of another builder?
Flaps up,. Mike

It may be a bit off topic, but I noticed in the latest issue the first letter in ScaleTalk, this poor gentleman asking for advice on how to get some BMF off of his canopy he had used for masking.....and the editors tell him to wait until the April issue when they will do an article on masking canopies!!! Could you imagine waiting months to get an answer on how to remove a mask??!! I'm sorry friend, that BMF is never coming off by the time you learn your answer!!! I was shocked that the FSM editors didn't at least point him to the Forum where he could get the answer in a timely manner!!!

Hey all,
Last year at BUFFCON, Mr Boyer took a few pix of my a/c that I had entered. When the issue came out, you guessed it, none of my a/c were in there.
And you know what..!! I did not loose any sleep over it. If my models would have made it, cool and if not o'well maybe next time. Maybe its just not my time
Anywho I love(see I said it) posting my pix here(FSM forum) b/c I get to share them w/ my modelling buds and budettes and vise versa.
Here I can get advise, tips, ,problem solving,hints and even ideas from everybody. Where as in the rag, nothing can be said in around about way unless you post here.
Since I have joined the FSM forum, I have learned, advanced in my building and the like. Its like one BIG family here.
I do agree w/ what has been said here, and it would be nice if FSM put out an extra rag just w/ the builds. Nothing like "The Best Of" or "Great Planes of WWII" but every day builds from people like us!!
Hopefully to somebody this makes sense because I typed this quicker than I thought it out. I know go sit in box for 5 minutes and then I go free.
Flaps up, Mike

I had dreams of being published in FSM but since I found FSM forum I post my own work here and I can get feed back from a great bunch of guys and gals which you can't get from a magazine.

OK I'm going to take the contrary view just to ensure the discussion remains lively!

I don't agree, I don't want to see any increase in pictures from the various shows, that in my opinion is what GSM is for. The reader's gallery in FSM is great and like you all I enjoy seeing what everyone else is doing but for me FSM is all about seeing how a master modeller or expert does something extraordinary, what method or technique is used to create that special weathering effect, how a run-of-the-mill kit can be turned into something special. Photos from model shows are just the result they don't tell me how and what etc.

What is an acceptable level of show reporting, if only 1% of photos taken are published then is 2%, 5% or 25% an acceptable level? There is and always will be a debate about the mix of coverage within FSM (or any generic modelling magazine, late last year International Scale Modeller asked its readership the same thing), not enough sci-fi, or figures, or cars, or now show coverage. If something increases then some other genre has to decline. Sci-fi, figures etc already is poorly represented so armour and aircraft will have to suffer ......

GSM is for show coverage not FSM. Perhaps GSM could be published twice a year or even quarterly, Michaelvk's idea of a special edition is another good one but my advice to the editorial staff at FSM is not to change the mix of FSM!

Id have to agree with Heath. I look forward to new issues of FSM to see other people's works, and to have a peek at new products too.

This might be a little off-topic, but what would you guys think of a "Forum Gallery" for once? That is, a gallery of model pics posted on this site. Theres just do many great models shown here.

Gip, I don't have the same frusterations as you (since I'm still fresh in the game and have never been photographed, or even finished a model yet), however I think I understand where you are coming from. I look at it more along the lines of I want to see everyone elses work. I bought GSM to see hundreds of photos of everyone's work, because to me, you guys make the models of my dreams!!! If that makes any sense....it's kind of like christmas for me (or maybe that first Playboy!!!) Where my eyes are just wide with excitement, trying to take in all of the detail and effort everyone puts into their models, and I get so many ideas!!! I still keep picking it up, and I know most of 'em by site now. Do I want more.....HELL YEAH!!!! I'm with you Gip, because I want to see more of our friends' work!!!!!

I completely agree here. I would love to be published in the FSM, but I know that it will never happen. I know this because I read their requirements for submitting photos, and they are financially (poor camera equipment) and technically (digicam photos not up to FSM Standards) beyond me. Even if I could find someone who could take photos that would be acceptable, I still believe that it won't happen because I build OOB. They have not published any photos that I know of from 40-yr-old guys still building OOB. I cannot afford AM, and PE parts, since we're bankrupt, and I'm still on disability. Besides, I enjoy building models OOB more than I do trying to add all the extras to my kits, but that is just me. Because of this though, my models aren't the same quality that FSM expects from guys my age, since I don't modify them. Every photo I've seen published from guys my age (+/- 10 years) are models that have P/E, A//M and/or scratchbuilding all over them. The only photos of OOB models that I've seen published are those built by Teens and younger. I may be wrong, but that is what I have noticed in the three years I've been getting the Mag.

Personally I think it is outstanding to see young kids and teens published; I'm definitely not begrudging them! I feel great seeing their work, since it shows a new generation is keeping this great Hobby alive! Seeing some of the great talent and skill that these kids put into their work is inspiring and motivating.

And finally, like someone else mentioned, the Reader's Gallery is TOO SMALL!! I would love to see the Reader's Gallery doubled and even tripled in size! I feel such a great letdown when I look through three or four pages and there's the end! It leaves me wanting to see so much more! For me, it's like when you're dying of thirst, and they only give you a 2-oz. cup of water and no more! Even GSM is too short for me! I'd even be willing to pay extra for FSM if that what it would take for more pics in the Reader's Gallery since it would give me more satisfation!

At least I was fortunate to be published somewhere: Doug Chaltry's "On the Way" website has photos of my BRDM 1 w/ Konkurs ATGW, and by BMP 1 'Ost'

I also submitted photos of my Iraqi T-55 Enigma to the online contest cosponsored by ACE and someone else. I don't think I'll win since I've seen the competition, but I thought to myself, "Hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained!, and it could still happen anyway!"

That felt good to see my work published on the "On the Way!" website! Maybe I'll take my WIP Thread of my T-55 Enigma and turn it into a kit review and submit that to "On the Way!"

I have sent photos twice to FSM and was turned down both times. I figured that my photos were lacking qualities that FSM was looking for. But I've seen inferior pictures that did make the gallery and wondered why I didn't.

I like Chris' idea about publishing the photos in 2 special edition magazines in June and August.

Regards, Dan

I agree with Chris (MIabramsRules). I'm sure many of your subscribers would love to get their hands on a special issue such as that. I know I'm one who loves and wishes the readers gallery were larger.

I agree with some of the sentiments expressed here in that I think it would be good of FSM to publish, say, an annual photo special at the end of the show season, something like that.
Bruce

I would like to see a article on the website. I have seen a lot of great looking models here.
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