Off-Topic Discussion area removed

Well, I always knew ya'll were a buncha PC types, but I'm laughing my a** off at this one...


Fade to Black...

i have a suggestion: from soldat forums soldat.pl they have this "watercooler" wher your post doesnt incresase

Well, I am disappointed. I enjoyed the off topic discussions. This new forum sounds like a copy of the "General Modelling" forum.

i haveta say......freedom of speech comes with responsibility........
...& i can't say i disagree with ya Lawrence.
i'm sure it was a difficult decision.........

i buy FSM and joined this forum to enrich my modelling experience...........and be around kindred spirit.......

Well, I dont know about this one Mr. Hansen.
I'm a memmber of this forum for quit some time know and just recently "discovered" Off-Topic. wish it happend before
There I had the chance to meet the guys more in person. I think that everybody here, that I met, are a bunch of inteligent people that know how to speak with each other without making any offensive remarks about religione, politics and such.
If somthing like that would have happened I'm sure that you, the senior editores would have remove it imidiatly.
This happend to me in an other forum that some wiseguy made stupid remarks about Nazies. As a Jew I immidiatly responded (without rage or anger) and explained the guy what he did. The editore removed both messages, mine and his. end of story.

This was a little Isle of peace. The beauty is that we are here from all over the world!
Yes, our bond is Model building! but take a look at us, for the first time Christians Musslems and Jews speak without animosity!

I find it FUN to have silly polls and silly word games (and I'm sorrey I've missed the chance to play)
I like to raise a toast like we had here at the 4th of july. What happened to fightnjoe? did he loose his special rank?
I'd like to speak with everyone about anything.

Please bring it back.

Thank you for baring with all my typo's

Peace!

Well, if this is the will of the majority then, I guess I have no choice but to yield. For what it's worth I just want to say that I enjoyed the OT Forum threads (except for the debates) like games, food, pictures of members, jokes and recognition of members milestones. Those threads really spiced up the modeling.

The photochops are also gone now.

I guess I'll just bring them somewhere else...

I suppose since we can still post about the wherabouts of missing members, there's no problem posting congradulations to milestones when members hit them.

I did enjoy the off topic forum quite a bit, but I have a feeling taking a bit more controlled an approach to the forum keep us a bit more focused on the hobby and still keep forming the good friendships. In the big picture, I suppose thats the bottom line for this forum, right?

Lawerence,

You are criticizing the members that used the forum for whatever and one of the largest contributers was one of your own and I appreciated his contributions. Come on, let those that enjoyed the forum games continue. Your unilateral decision to remove it is not in the best interest of those that used it (IMHO)

Richard

well im dissapointed wont be visiting fsm any more as of now bye bye, please close my account

Personally I think it was a silly thing to do. Another example of pandering to a few people whining about a non-existent problem. But, it's your forum and you can do as you please. I'll either play by your rules or mosey on down the road.

Lawrence,
I'm sorry that the OT topic has been removed, and I write this to express my disappointment with the decision.
It was actually one of the most interesting places on the forum - a place where people could exchange all sorts of ideas. For me, the decision to remove it seriously detracts from the attraction of the forum itself.
To remove it because of the remarks of a few members might be precipitous and has the taint of (forgive me for saying this) "caving" to the PC demands of those who have no sense of humor or can't seem to cope with the possibility that anyone else could ever have ideas that differ from their own. In all the time I've been on this forum I've only seen two topics that seemed to rile people up - but I've never seen any posts that were patently insulting to fellow members.
Censorship? That's not really the issue here - I just would have liked to have been given the opportunity to contribute to the decision as to whether the topic is removed from the forum. After all, just like the magazine, isn't this forum supposed to be what WE, the FSM Members, want it to be?
Have you considered a poll from the members to allow us to make our position clear to the Forum Administrators?
By all means, ban topics with political and religious content, but don't delete the Off Topics thread.
There might be rumblings from a few members, but the current "issue" will blow over and the FSM Forum will still be here next year, and the year after that.

Goodness knows I've swam in the muddy waters of this forum on several occaisions. I have also been involved in a few ugly verbal brawls there also. I really thought it was a great side line to express view points on world events etc. Hey it's your ball and if you choose to take it home that's kool. But I really think you guys may be taking the wrong approch. This was a modelers forum provided by a really great magazine. Most modellers I've meet are intellegent and educated and pretty good historians as well as great sports and forgiving debaters. Our banter was usually generated from this common tread we all have. I love your publication and this BBS but you guys have really surprised me by this action...Has censorship made it way onto another great medium???

Well where to start? I feel like somebody has kicked me in the gut. I'm in shock that the staff of FSM did such a heinous act. All I can see in my minds eye is the stories, opinions, advice, consolations, congratulations, and pictures that were shared between friends, burning in a huge pile. This must feel what it is like to watch your house go up in smoke. The laughter that was the hallmark of a trip to the OT, silenced.
You do realize that this place will never be the same right?
What you allowed a few to convince you to do is unbelieveable. I really thought you'd try to come up with a real solution.
You let a few malcontents bully members into thinking they had done something wrong.
Somebody complaining about the OT's content was like them buying a porno mag and then complaining about the contents.
I'm trying to convince myself to stay here but I keep remembering Sean's anguish that was caused by the small minded people who hurt his feelings. A great guy, much better than those PC thugs.
I'll keep my membership open for now in hopes that this can be made right in some way. If there is any pics in my posts you want I suggest you get them as I'll be cleaning out my pics I'm hosting for my FSM posts and GB badge . I'll continue my Star Trek GB at Scalehobby.com as they don't allow cussing but they do allow the free exchange of ideas.
To my friends, stop by and see me at Scalehobby or email me. I'm glad I waited until I calmed down before posting but I'm still numb.
How could you guys do this to us?

Lawrence,

I will be the nay-sayer in this line of posts (for the most part) and voice my approval for the actions of the entire FSM staff.

As you so eliquently put it in your original post, I too "noticed a substantial increase in purely frivolous posts and posts about hot-button subjects like politics, religion, crime and punishment, gun control, the Iraq War (i.e., subjects you'd never bring up on a first date). The tone of these discussions/arguments seems to be having a negative effect on the overall tone of the site."

There were a few members who seemed to have forgotton or ignored the very first line of policy on forum ettiquette which states, "Remember the Human - The other people on this forum are real people and the staff at FineScale.com are people too. They have feelings. Please respect those people they are here to help you." Frequently, in this computerized age, we forget that at the other end of a post is a real person, with their own likes and dislikes, values and morals.

There should have been no posts that questioned another member's nationality or national pride, religion or religious beliefs, or any of several other topics. For this, I'm afraid that the FSM staff must take some responsibilty for not immediately recognizing them and taking action. However, since administrators can't be everywhere all the time, I understand the decision that was made.

I agree that it's a shame the OT Forum had to go because of relatively few members and feel that the "Odds and Ends" Forum is a fair compromise. It enables members to generally post "non-hostile" topics while trying to keep the focus of the entire site on it's primary purpose - modeling. I sincerely hope that this forum continues to thrive.

Enjoy your modeling...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Woody [You do realize that this place will never be the same right

You may be right there Woody.

Mike

Well said Foster7155.

There is no reason that Odds & Ends cannot accomplish the more personal or side posts that will allow a familiarity with other members with out causing anyone to feel that they have to defend a personal position, faith, ideology. Much of this negativity is rather churlish and melodramatic in my opinion. But if it means a choice between quitting and a peaceful more friendly forum.....adeiu guys. I hope you find satisfaction elsewhere. I am happy to alter or curtail the sociological debates and move on. Besides my interest in this site was modeling and figures. It was why I signed up.

I posted this in the 'announcements' as well, sorry if it's repetative...

I agree about the political stuff. I have tried to steer clear but curiosity got the best of me sometimes and I was swept in. I've found that some members 'positions' have changed the way I think of them and I consider that a unfortunate consequence. All in all, I don't mind the loss of that aspect....
However, I can't help feeling like I'm being 'policed'. Not for language, I agree with that, but for content.
Is an absurd post about PE problems considered frivolous? If a thread degrades into some jokes about anti-mime-mines does it get removed?
I haven't been to other forums but I've heard rumblings here regarding missinglynx, et al as being bolt-counters and too serious. I have been amazed at the lightheartedness and acceptance of FSM and fear it may be turning a corner.
There's a camraderie here that may suffer if we can't vent or joke about Otto Carius warming himself around a candle in a Australian pub.
Is the Cretin gone for good?

As ausf did, here's what I posted in the Announcements thread...in case anyone didn't see it there and I too apologize if this is repetative but I felit needs to be said...

Call me silly, and I will agree that some of the posts were way overboard, but I always enjoyed some of the spirited discussions carried out on the OT thread. It's always interesting to share our opinions / thoughts about various subjects. What better way to get acquainted with ourselves when many of us will never have the opportunity to have a face-to-face sit down chit-chat. If I didn't like a topic, I didn't read it. If I didn't agree with someone's post, 99.9 times out of 100 I'd let it go with it being that person's right to voice their opinion. Occasionally, I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. They weren't right and they weren't wrong. They were simply expressing their opinions and beliefs. I'll miss the fun of the O/T thread.

QUOTE: By all means, ban topics with political and religious content, but don't delete the Off Topics thread.

Although the original Off Topic forum has been replaced, the community still remains. The stories, opinions and conversations from the past 9 months may have gone away, but the people you shared them with have not.

One reason for the Odds & Ends forum was that it is simply easier to start over than attempting to filter out the political, religious, and inflammatory topics. With over 1K topics/threads and 30K posts, that was a lot of stuff for anyone to sift through. I suspect that most threads weren’t much more than memories once they disappeared beyond the first couple of pages.

If it matters to anyone, a good number of topics were moved out of the Off Topic forum and into other forums.

say basically, your saying that this is the OT, except for politics and religion, and heated debates, and totally senseless posts???

does that mean we have free rein in this forum as long as we don't touch any of those hot button issues?

I'd like to know exactly what is condoned.

QUOTE: Originally posted by M1abramsRules say basically, your saying that this is the OT, except for politics and religion, and heated debates, and totally senseless posts??? does that mean we have free rein in this forum as long as we don't touch any of those hot button issues? I'd like to know exactly what is condoned.

This is my question also. What exactly is allowed?

BTW, in case any one did miss it, I apologized to Mike for my part in the flamewar that occured over the weekend. I really do feel that this is all my fault because of it. That would also make it my fault for everybody leaving. I'm sorry, this is all so depressing, I've lost friends because of this. And I really do feel as if its my fault.

Dave,

I think a thorough clarification is necessary on this one. As M1 asked what exactly is allowed or not allowed?

Congratulatory posts?
Games?
Jokes?
Complaints about hobby shops/ kit prices?
Personal profiles / pictures?

Until such time that a black and white / clear cut clarification on this matter is available...I am afraid that the debate will continue.

As I have told you earlier in my e-mail. I will yield to the new rules even if I don't like them. Moreover, IMHO the previous OT Forum did not distract me from building models or the other proper forums. I have completed many models since joining the forum and yes participating in the previous OT forum. I rarely joined the debates and when I did I followed the proper forum ethics. But if these changes are for the good of the forum and will finally enable other members to finally concentrate on building, then so be it.

But please clarify...

....more of my ............not probably....
but, it is so much easier to be a member here and opinionate than it is to moderate or administrate.......
if a decal gets out of wack do you fix it...??????? or toss the project...
c'mon y'all isn't it all a question of perspective and balance ?

I must say I'm disappointed ( pending clarification of what exactly is now permitted ). Yes, there were some posts which often descended into somewhat inflamatory language and opinion, but I do feel this is a bit of a case of taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I always thought the OT forum was a great idea, a place where subjects unconnected with modelling could be discussed, after all, there are plenty of other forums here covering all the modelling subjects. And I rapidly learned to steer clear of any posts on religion, politics, etc. It would be a shame to lose all that was good about OT

That is sad.....especially from the land of the free...(or it is not PC anymore).......
I doubt if any hotted conversation caused a hate row.....It is rather a friends talk, any length of verbal abuse used is accepted but no harm intented....(You should listen Greeks converse...lol)

Aw. . shucks. it was fun while it last. anyway, could't argue with the moderators since they did it with their best interest for the forums considering that what they did will draw some flak from some members of this forum.

I couldn't see a problem here as well and I'm sad to see that an executive decision was made without any consultation from the mambers. Were we really misbehaving? I belong to a number of forums, and this one here has the most caring, understanding bunch of members. I have never seen poor conduct or flat our flame wars as seen on others forums. We modelers like to stick together, and face it, these are critical times for many of us. I learn a lot from the idividuals, many who are from all over the world, about what is going on in their part of the world. So, FSM, count yourself lucky that you have a great bunch of members who really support themselves and behave in a courteous manner.
Scott

QUOTE: Originally posted by roadkill_275 BTW, in case any one did miss it, I apologized to Mike for my part in the flamewar that occured over the weekend. I really do feel that this is all my fault because of it. That would also make it my fault for everybody leaving. I'm sorry, this is all so depressing, I've lost friends because of this. And I really do feel as if its my fault.

Don't be so hard on yourself Kevin. It was not your fault so don't think it was.

Mike

QUOTE: Well, I am disappointed. I enjoyed the off topic discussions. This new forum sounds like a copy of the "General Modelling" forum

I couldn't agree more. I can see this as nothing more than a stupid decision. I can understand the removal of hot-topic threads (somewhat, since I always thought that members of this forum were intelligent enough to respect freedom of opinions). This new forum, well I don't really see the point of it. We already have a General Modelling Discussion. So now we're pretty much forced to adhere to modeling and nothing else? I find this ridiculous. If we are not free to express thoughts on general topics OUTSIDE of modeling, how can you actually build real friendships and a real community?