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  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Hello!
Posted by Baratheon on Sunday, December 31, 2017 9:25 PM

I figured it prudent to say hello to everyone since I've only just recently gotten into this hobby but am already in love with it. While looking around to see just how you build and paint a model in a "proper" way, what sorts of materials are needed and the like, this forum was a great help more than a few times with regards to clarifying things. 

Before the Tamiya StuG IV I'm currently butchering (used a much too dark shade of blue/grey but hoping to salvage something via weathering; live and learn) I'd only done some 40K figures as a kid. I've got an Sd.Kfz 251 halftrack on the way that I think will turn out much better. Needless to say, German armour is probably that which most interests me. 

Anyways, I look forward to having a proper look around this place!

Travis

fox
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:07 PM

Welcome to the Forums Travis! Glad to have you aboard.

You have come to the right place. The members here are not only very knowledgeable but they are ready to help you with any question or problem that you might have. As you said, have a proper look around the sections of the Forums so you know the right place to post whatever type of question you have. That will make it a lot easier to get the right answers more quickly. 

I've built all types of models in the 71 years that I've been building. My favs are WWI & WWII planes followed by all types of sailing ships. If a model strikes my fancy, and my wallet says "OK", I'll build it. Love the hobby.

Sit back, relax and build away. Be sure to post pics of your builds so we can watch your progress and know the best way to help you.

Jim  Captain

Photobucket Main WIP: Rebuild of Monogram 1/8 "Big Deuce" with 1/8 Pocher V-12 in rear - 10%

   On the Bench:   Revell 1/48 Ju 52/3m - 50%;  Revell 1/96 USS Kearsarge - 20% 

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:10 PM

Howdy !

I have been "Buchering" model's for the past 47 year's !

We will get along just fine.

Welcome to FSM.

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage".

  

 

    

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:22 PM

Thanks, to both you!

I'm still debating whether or not to share pictures of this StuG considering I ended up using it for experimentation and learning just how to do chipping, washing, etc. I'll probably end up doing it eventually lol 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 5:26 PM

Welcome aboard.

I've been building for 53 years and still butcher kits. Nice thing about armor is you can mess stuff up and hide most of the mistakes with weathering. Not so much with aircraft and ships.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish

In Que

1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales
1/700 Tamiya King George V
1/72 Academy FW-190 A

 

  • Member since
    January, 2016
  • From: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
Posted by Hunter on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:26 PM

Hello Travis, and welcome to the forums.

I took up the hobby 2 years ago and I am still learning how to do this. I find that the historical education, friendships and learning techniques every day is what keeps me here. Dive in and enjoy the ride.

Hunter 

      

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:58 PM

Thanks again!

As far as the historical education is concerned, I've got proverbial stacks of old Osprey books laying around that will be more than a little helpful in terms making things more accurate, plus it's just nice to have an actual reason to look through them and learn more.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:09 AM

Welcome aboard, dive in and enjoy.

Do post those pics, we like those more than anything. Which 251 kit have you got.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:54 AM

Bish

Welcome aboard, dive in and enjoy.

Do post those pics, we like those more than anything. Which 251 kit have you got.

 

 

Tamiya. Gonna start throwing it together tomorrow now that I've finished the StuG. I'll try to take some decent pictures of it soon. 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 04, 2018 4:18 AM

Those Tamiya Ausf D's are nice kits, i did the /9 not long back. I am a bit of a 251 fanatic so deffinetly look forwardto seeing that.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, January 04, 2018 9:19 AM

Travis;

 Welcome to the forums .It's always nice to get new input in the new Year ! T.B.

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 11:34 AM

Bish

Those Tamiya Ausf D's are nice kits, i did the /9 not long back. I am a bit of a 251 fanatic so deffinetly look forwardto seeing that.

 

And I'm looking forward to doing it. Gonna look around and see what kind of Afrikacorp styles I can try to emulate, do something a bit more complex this time. 

Thanks, Tank-Builder.

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, January 04, 2018 12:20 PM

Welcome to the Forums, Baratheon!  I think we can all say we've butchered some kits in our plastic careers!  Part of the learning process, I think.

Nulla Rosa Sine Spina

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 1:53 PM

checkmateking02

Welcome to the Forums, Baratheon!  I think we can all say we've butchered some kits in our plastic careers!  Part of the learning process, I think.

 

Indeed, and thank you. 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 04, 2018 1:59 PM

That would be a bit tricky for an Ausf D as it only began production in mid 43, after the German withdrawel from Africa. If you want to do a N African based 251, you would need an earlier version. You could go with an AFV Club or Dragon Ausf C. A step up from Tamiya, extra work but great detail.

The DAK scheme are pretty simple, theres some really nice 3 colour schemes for eastern front or Western Europe schemes and there is a lot more variety.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:35 PM

Bish

That would be a bit tricky for an Ausf D as it only began production in mid 43, after the German withdrawel from Africa. If you want to do a N African based 251, you would need an earlier version. You could go with an AFV Club or Dragon Ausf C. A step up from Tamiya, extra work but great detail.

The DAK scheme are pretty simple, theres some really nice 3 colour schemes for eastern front or Western Europe schemes and there is a lot more variety.

 

I'd not taken that into consideration, haven't read up on it yet. Where exactly do you guys go to learn about all of these different schemes and where they were used? I'm sure everyone has different sources, of course, but is there some online reference site that a lot of people use?

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 04, 2018 3:28 PM

Baratheon
 
Bish

That would be a bit tricky for an Ausf D as it only began production in mid 43, after the German withdrawel from Africa. If you want to do a N African based 251, you would need an earlier version. You could go with an AFV Club or Dragon Ausf C. A step up from Tamiya, extra work but great detail.

The DAK scheme are pretty simple, theres some really nice 3 colour schemes for eastern front or Western Europe schemes and there is a lot more variety.

 

 

 

I'd not taken that into consideration, haven't read up on it yet. Where exactly do you guys go to learn about all of these different schemes and where they were used? I'm sure everyone has different sources, of course, but is there some online reference site that a lot of people use?

 

A lot of it is just picked up as you go along. There are books and site out there. A good starting point for German armour is the Panzer Colours collection of 3 books. They have been out of print for some time but can still be found.

The thing to remember about the German 3 colour scheme is that while the yellow was applied at the factory the other colours were addd in the field. This means there was lot of variety. Best suggection i can make is to goggle the vehicle you are building, such as the 251, and find a scheme you lkike. Even though it will be in black and white, you can pick out the green and red brown. There are also colour profile out there which can help a lot. But they are open to interpritation.

This is the Tamiya /9 i built.

And these are 2 images of it that i used as referance.

You can see there is a difference between the colour image and photo. Also, while the images show the vehicle number, they don't show the other markings, such as number plate or unit markings. So again, some guess work is needed.

Best thing i can suggest, find the vehicle you want to do, do what research you can, and if all else fails, make your best guess.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 3:55 PM

That looks great. I'm guessing you used an airbrush to do that? I'd love to get my hands on one but they're a bit too expensive for me right now lol

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 04, 2018 4:05 PM

Thanks, and yes. But there are hard edged schemes you can do with a paint brush. And there are other ways to get a variety of results. The Germans didn't always use an air gun to apply the paint, they often used what ever was to hand.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Thursday, January 04, 2018 4:14 PM

Bish
The Germans didn't always use an air gun to apply the paint, they often used what ever was to hand.

I have actually seen a picture of a german applying White winter camoflague to a tank.... with a paint roller!

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage".

  

 

    

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Thursday, January 04, 2018 9:49 PM

Bish

Thanks, and yes. But there are hard edged schemes you can do with a paint brush. And there are other ways to get a variety of results. The Germans didn't always use an air gun to apply the paint, they often used what ever was to hand.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll probably end up doing something like this. Don't know for sure yet. 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:12 AM

littletimmy
 
Bish
The Germans didn't always use an air gun to apply the paint, they often used what ever was to hand.

 

I have actually seen a picture of a german applying White winter camoflague to a tank.... with a paint roller!

 

Yep, yard brooms, mops, rags and just about anything else that comes to hand.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:18 AM

Baratheon
 
Bish

Thanks, and yes. But there are hard edged schemes you can do with a paint brush. And there are other ways to get a variety of results. The Germans didn't always use an air gun to apply the paint, they often used what ever was to hand.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll probably end up doing something like this. Don't know for sure yet. 

 

That would be a nice one. This pic shows a command vehicle from the 12th SS PZ Div. But other vehciles in the Div wore similar schemes.

I did the vehcile above a few years back and oversprayed the camo with a very thin base coat over it. But you could paint the red brown and green with thin mixes so you don't get the full on colours standing out. You can see in some patches its not a solid coat of paint.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:04 PM

Cool, I'd like to be able to do something like that at some point.

After looking around a bit I actually saw why there was some confusion over which type of 251 this is and why it wouldn't work with an afrika scheme: Tamiya makes an ausf D kit but this one doesn't exactly specify which one it is. It's actually an ausf C, as far as I can tell, since it has the angled hatches in the back and independant stowage on the sides. Regardless, I might just end up doing the more traditional 3-tone camo anyways since I like it.

That said, I've read a few varying accounts of what color the interior walls and floor would be, some saying it would be the same as the outside base camo, others saying a panzer grey, others saying either or would work. What do you usually go with? What WOULD be the base color in a 3-tone scheme? 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:13 PM

I did wounder if it might be that kit, its the one which says Hanomag on the box. Its the main reason a lot of people refer to the 251 by that name, but the Germans did not use it.

Its a good kit to practice painting and weathering techniques, but not very accurate. One suggestion, leave out the water tank that goes between the front seats.

As for the interiour colour, that would depend on when the vehcile was built. Pre Feb 43 they used the Pz Grey scheme, Feb 43 is when the 3 colour camo was introduced. But of course vehicles built before that date would still be in service afterwards. They would often paint over the grey with camo, usualy, some grey would remain showing on the outside, with for example green painted over it. But on a 251, the inside would not be repainted.

If the vehicle was built after Feb 43, it would be yellow inside with camo on the outside, and the 251 Ausf C remained in production until mid 43. So yes, it could be in the 3 colour camo.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Rudel Stage 3

                     Academy 1/72nd Apache AH.1

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Saturday, January 06, 2018 1:01 PM

The interior is already fully installed, unfortunately. I actually made the horrible mistake of underestimating the ease at which I could paint the interior once everything is already in place (but not the top half of the hull), but I'm not TOO concerned with the driver section since you'll barely be able to see it once the figuring manning the forward MG is in place. It's my first model with an interior so I just had to learn that lesson the hard way, I guess. 

Thanks for the help!

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Saturday, January 06, 2018 4:07 PM
The 251 line is definitely one of my favorites and the Tamiya kits are nice and go together very easily practice on a few tamiya kits then move on to a Dragon. Like Bish said they take more work but are very beautiful when finished. For camo schemes the internet is your friend with that one but also check the reference section on spruebrothers and squadron for books on the subject your doing, and swap meets is another excellent source for rare books and reference material.

Clint

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Saturday, January 06, 2018 5:26 PM

Rambo
The 251 line is definitely one of my favorites and the Tamiya kits are nice and go together very easily practice on a few tamiya kits then move on to a Dragon. Like Bish said they take more work but are very beautiful when finished. For camo schemes the internet is your friend with that one but also check the reference section on spruebrothers and squadron for books on the subject your doing, and swap meets is another excellent source for rare books and reference material.
 

Where do you guys buy different kits? I'm thus far just working off of Amazon, which has plenty of Tamiya and Revell kits but seems a bit scarce with anything else. I'll have to keep those sources in mind, thanks. 

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Saturday, January 06, 2018 7:26 PM
main source for me is Spruebrothers.com, have recently bought some alpine figures from a site called lots of models. Look for a IPMS show in your area swap meets are a great place to find kits on the cheap.

Clint

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Baratheon on Saturday, January 06, 2018 9:17 PM

Rambo
main source for me is Spruebrothers.com, have recently bought some alpine figures from a site called lots of models. Look for a IPMS show in your area swap meets are a great place to find kits on the cheap.
 

Awesome, I'll have to check them out. 

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