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My COMMENTS ABOUT GUNS Locked

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  • Member since
    August 2008
My COMMENTS ABOUT GUNS
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:12 AM

HI :

  Well , I did it again . I got off the subject when I read the thread about MODEL GUNS , SORRY !  I feel very strongly about this subject .There is a manufacturer of TOY guns OUT OF CHINA that I keep running across at my local flea market .The guns look mean and it says right on the box in large letters " LIFE SIZED " .

        Now , my comments notwithstanding , who needs a TOY gun that's life sized ? I ,as I said used to hunt and fish . When I wanted venison , I went out and got a deer . Nothing big deal about that ,right ? I was just beginning to hear what sounded like auto or semi auto fire in the area I like to hunt in . I stopped hunting then .

       Aftyer having been in the military , I knew the sound alright ! Who needs that type of gun to deer hunt ? On the other comment , the " life sized " toy guns did have the red tip on them . My neighbor kids have already figured out how to remove them !

       I will not promote gun ownership , but there is a situation where you may need one .DIETY forbid ! You must never think the gun solves anything ,  if it's NOT being used to put food on a table somewhere .

       They do , all of them kill or seriously maim hundreds of folks each year . STICK TO THE MODELS ! I know you think I am crazy .Well , let me tell you this. After the latest happening concerning weapons of this type ,I was shocked at the N.R.A. Presidents reaction ! I imediately took my membership card (over forty years ) and cut it up and threw it away !

   Anyway , to set things straight .I still have my MODEL guns hanging on the wall .They are " LIFE SIZED " They look neat and the wall is where they belong .The "REAL " guns have been pared down to a COLT .45 AUTOMATIC from GUADALCANAL . It still works too ! and a long barreled .38 POLICE SPECIAL . These are strictly for home defense if an incident occurs !

      The folks in this house go to the range and train once every three months ! This is for SAFETY .When a child has a "LIFE SIZED " weapon  toy that's a troubling situation waiting to unfold ! for one prefer "BIG " guns like a "DICKER MAX " or a "STUG 3" on my shelf , oh and don't forget the" ANZIO ANNIE " model ! Now there's a gun !

         We are safer building models of everything and in our houses , staying out of trouble . The proliferation of NOT just " LIFE SIZED " toy guns  , but , the real ones too ,  is stupid . I know there are some , maybe even the FSM staff are uncomfortable about the whole subject so , in closing , keep the guns on tanks and planes and ships that are MODELS . NUFF SAID -        Tanker-builder

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: England
Posted by P mitch on Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:59 AM

Tank builder

First let me say I live in England so don't have a dog in the fight on your side of the pond. Having said that some of the incidents I have seen have made me weep for the victims and your country. I understand your constitution and its second rule to be able to carry guns, let me say this from an English point of view, WE ARE NOT GOING TO INVADE AGAIN SO YOUR SAFE OK.

I must also say I have hunted with a rifle and eaten what I killed but that was done on a survival course where a market wasn't available to buy food from.

Every time I build a model at some point I stop and have to walk away when it hits me these things where weapons used to kill people, its part of the hobby and I can live with that and in some way I hope honor the memory of the people fighting in them.

I know this isn't a political forum but from the outside of your country anyone who says as the NRA spokesman said that you don't need less guns but more I feel should say something as stupid as that to the families of the victims and see what happens, I know what I'd do to him.

To end my deepest heart felt sympathy to all the victims of gun crime round the world and I hope one day the only thing left of weapons will be models made by people who every now and then take a minute to think of what they where used for and give a little shudder

Phil

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls." R J Mitchell


  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:15 PM

I guess you would have to live here in the USA to even come close to understanding this topic and the passions that arise from this subject. The fundamental right to keep and bear arms isn't so much as to defend ourselves from an outside power, that is what our armed forces are for, but as to defend ourselves from an internal threat. And some even consider the government itself as a potential threat.

I would like to keep my personal feelings out of this discussion.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:56 PM

P mitch

 I understand your constitution and its second rule to be able to carry guns, let me say this from an English point of view, WE ARE NOT GOING TO INVADE AGAIN SO YOUR SAFE OK.

 

Trust me, we're not worried about you.  Also, your comments clearly show that you in fact do not understand our Constitution and "its second rule." 

The 2nd Amendment (that's what we call it) was included in the Bill of Rights at the behest of the anti-federalists because our founders understood that the greatest threads to liberty and freedom most often come from a people's own government.  The 2nd Amendment is the only amendment that guarantees that our government will obey the rest of the Constitution.  They obey it or we make them obey it...in theory.

We don't need the 2nd Amendment to protect hunting, sport shooting or to protect us from some European country (no offense but our military would annihilate all of  yours put together and you know it).  People who say the 2nd Amendment protects this stuff are completely uneducated.  Everything about our Constitution suggests that the framers didn't trust big centralized government...and for good reasons.  Sadly, the world's history is full of example of governments turing on their own people.  To suggest that the 2nd Amendment was for something other that our protection is rediculous and flat out wrong.

Do you think the founders were sitting in the Constitutional Convention saying: "Governments all over the world throughout history have proven they they tend to abuse their powers.  Let's make sure that we limit their powers in this Constitution.  Let's break up the power into three seperate branches that check and balance that power.  Let's throw in a Bill of Rights that forbids certain actions the Federal Government can commit.  Oh, and let's put in an amendment to protect hunting." 

Seriously?

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Saturday, January 12, 2013 6:23 PM

good post Fly-n-hi. I would also like to add that the 2nd Amendment also allows us to protect ourselves from others and not just the government. It is estimated that 3% of the population are sociopaths. Most never harm anyone, but  nutjobs like the shooters in Aurora or Newton can cause all sorts of trouble.  Not to mention inner-city crime!

Should a situation arise that requires self defense, we cannot rely on police who measure response time in minutes.  Many incidences are over in seconds and by the time police arrive you could very well be dead.

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Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:07 PM

This thread may make it to 9 am Monday but I doubt it.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:00 PM

As long as it's kept fairly civil it should be left alone.

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:46 AM

Hi :

I appreciate your input on this .Here in the U.S.A. we are,for the most part , LAW ABIDING folks .There are the percentage of unseen and seen " nut-cases " that ruin life for everyone .The second amendment was written ,I suppose in the spirit of the times .Flegling new country against the might of the known monarchies of that time .

   As we all know the U.K. is one of the few that could and did smell the roses. We had our differences and solved them .To bad it couldn't have been done over a pint in the pub ! We here ARE very emotional about the" SECOND AMENDMENT " although probably most have NEVER read it .

These emotions can and sometimes do stir  up a firestorm of words .

    I have used firearms , in the service of my country . I have also been involved in two incidents where my family ,or myself , were definitely in peril . These still bother me . If they didn't I wouldn't be of right mind , correct ?

     The firearm is a TOOL and like many can and does get ABUSED and MISUSED .  There ,that's my true view .    Tanker-builder

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:19 AM

tankerbuilder

     The firearm is a TOOL and like many can and does get ABUSED and MISUSED .  There ,that's my true view .    Tanker-builder

 
And the few that abuse and misuse them, ruin it for the rest of us, and we know who those are. As a responsible gun owner, you teach your family and friends gun safety. My kids were tought from an early age not to fear guns but to respect them, just as you respect a car and what can happen if driven in a reckless manner. Both my son (23) and daughter (19) enjoy quality range time with dad.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: England
Posted by P mitch on Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:15 PM

I have to ask this as I'm the only non-American in this discussion and I know before I ask this it not a fair question but - How many children have to be murdered before as a country you say "Enough", or is it OK as long as they aren't your children?

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls." R J Mitchell


  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:27 PM

P mitch

I have to ask this as I'm the only non-American in this discussion and I know before I ask this it not a fair question but - How many children have to be murdered before as a country you say "Enough", or is it OK as long as they aren't your children?

 that doesnt have to do with guns at all. Many children are stabbed, drowned, beaten, struck by cars/killed in accidents....there are just as many adults killed by guns, if not more.

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:55 PM

P mitch

I have to ask this as I'm the only non-American in this discussion and I know before I ask this it not a fair question but - How many children have to be murdered before as a country you say "Enough", or is it OK as long as they aren't your children?

Honestly, this is an overly emotional and ridiculous question.  And unchecked emotions really are the problem with this whole debate.

Let's try to look at this objectively, ok?  According the the US Department of Justice, approximately 10,000 to 12,000 Americans are murdered by firearms every year.  The population of the US is approximately 340,000,000.  That means that .00003% of the population are murdered by firearms every year.  And they estimate that two thirds of those murders are criminals killing other criminals, i.e. drug deals gone bad or gang shoot outs.  So now about .00001% of the innocent civilian population are murdered every year.  Yeah, that number is gonna have to be quite a bit higher before I say "enough."

Now, according to the National Safety Council, about 16,000 people die every year in the US from falling down!  Yes, that's right!  Now, we can all agree that it would be ludicrous for you to say something like "How many people have to fall before as a country you say enough?"  Yet more people die as a result of falling that being murdered by firearms.  Where's your outcry over all of the senseless deaths from falling?

There are an estimated 230,000,000 firearms in the US and 200,000,000 automobiles, yet 55,000 people die every year in the US in automobiles.  Should we say "enough" to cars?

I could go on and on listing other items that kill more people that firearms but it would take me all day to post it and you all day to read it.  

According to a study by Dr. Gary Kleck, a criminologist at the University of Florida in 1997, Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

In my research I came across this Oct 5th, 2003 article from The Guardian titled "Gun crime spreads 'like a cancer' across Britain":  "Even banning guns does not slow down criminals. In the U.K., where private ownership of firearms is practically forbidden, criminals have and use guns regularly, and even build their own. One enterprising fellow converted 170 starter pistols to functioning firearms and sold them to gangs. Hundreds of such underground gun factories have been established, contributing to a 35% jump in gun violence."  Thought you might like that one.  So much for that gun free British utopia.

I live in Arizona, which is a very gun friendly state.  We have always had open carry and we've had concealed carry for a long time yet we have very few firearms related murders (if you exclude the illegal alien drug trade and human trafficking, i.e. criminals killing other criminals).  Yet when we legislated conceal carry here all the anti-gunners warned us that every argument and bar spat would turn into the shoot out at the OK Corral.  It didn't happen here or in any other state that has concealed carry.  Why do you suppose that is?  The overwhelmingly vast majority of shootings are justified shooting of some criminal with intent to do harm.

Look, the bottom line is that we live in a world that has some pretty messed up people.  There's not really anything we can do to prevent that.  All we can do is be prepared to deal with these people when they rear their ugly heads.  Many people I know choose to carry their pistols...and you'd never know it.  They don't flash them, they don't talk about it and they don't go around looking to be vigilantes.  They just want to be prepared to defend themselves if God forbid they ever need to.  To me this is wise.  In reality there's only one person who is truly going to look after you...and that's you!  If you chose to walk around like a sheep and hope that someone else will protect you that's your right to do so but you really have no one to blame but yourself if you chose to be defenseless.  

I like what Thomas Jefferson said..."I would rather have complete liberty, and accept the fact that some people will abuse that liberty, then to not have liberty at all."  Very well said TJ!

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:58 PM

P mitch

I have to ask this as I'm the only non-American in this discussion and I know before I ask this it not a fair question but - How many children have to be murdered before as a country you say "Enough", or is it OK as long as they aren't your children?

 
On April 19,1995, wacked out individual named Tomothy McVeigh parked a rented Ryder truck in front of the Murrah Federal Building. Inside the truck was 5K lbs. of a combination of fertilizer and gasoline that when detonated,  destroyed half of the building killing 168 people, 19 of them children in a day care center located in the building. Another 450 people were injured from the blast. No fireams used here, just a deranged mind.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:59 PM

whoo Fly-n-hi!!

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Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:56 PM

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by mitsdude on Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:05 PM

In crimes committed with a gun what percentage of those was the criminal convicted the actual legal registered owner of the gun.

Anyone know where one could go to get these stats or do they not even keep them?

  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by mitsdude on Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:17 PM

Another thought.

In order to show their support for more strict gun laws how about those of us that are protected by "security" with guns (ie celebrities, politicians, etc) publicly announce that they will insist their "security"  immediately turn in their guns. Also at their homes and places of business place a sign that reads something like "This is a Gun Free Zone".

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:23 PM

Another thought: Lets keep politics out of the FSM ready room, where they are not allowed.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:45 PM

2nd that. We just earned this privilege back. No need to blow it so soon.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:13 PM

dirkpitt77

2nd that. We just earned this privilege back. No need to blow it so soon.

Agreed.
Social issues are also political isues and political discussion is supposedly forbidden by FSM.
.
Somebody in the "Gun models, real or imagined? " thread told FSM staff to shut that thread down citing Odds and Ends getting nuked.......
.
Wonder why not this thread? Hmm
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:07 PM

I agree with the man above. This thread is as good as gone.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Moderator
  • Member since
    September 2011
Posted by Tim Kidwell on Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:10 PM

Ladies and gentlemen,

Everyone knows why this one was put to bed.

Tim

--

Timothy Kidwell
Editor
FineScale Modeler

 

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