GMorrison

One factor was that in late Fall 1941 Operation Barbarossa was going well. The Japanese decided that protecting their western flank from Russia was less of a concern and that they could redirect their forces into South Asia.

Their historical enemy was Russia. In the context of naval warfare, they modeled their tactics on the 1904-1905 war. So taking out the enemies battleships made sense.

It's easy to see now that naval aviation was a key factor in the Pacific War, but that was as unknown then to the Japanese as it was to the US.

 

That was a mutually beneficial act on the Soviet/Manchurian border Between the Soviets and the Japanese in late 1941. After the border clashes earlier at Khalkin Gol where the Japanese had been soundly defeated, the Soviets maintained a strong force there, "just in case". As did the Japanese. One school of thought in the Japanese command advocated that they should strike north into Siberia to get the resources they needed, and take on only the Soviets. As opposed to those who advocated a  move south and east against Australian, British, Dutch, and American territories. After the Japanese were defeated in the border clashes with the Soviets, the move against the West looked more attainable. When Soviet intelligence confirmed in 1941 that the Japanese were going to strike south and east, instead of their way again, they were able to redeploy forces from Siberia to the west and save Moscow from the Germans. Both sides maintained diplomatic relations and strictly adhered to neutrality rules regarding the war, until August 1945, even though both had "allies" fighting the other. Then the Soviets honored their word to the West to enter the Pacific war three months after Germany was defeated.

One factor was that in late Fall 1941 Operation Barbarossa was going well. The Japanese decided that protecting their western flank from Russia was less of a concern and that they could redirect their forces into South Asia.

Their historical enemy was Russia. In the context of naval warfare, they modeled their tactics on the 1904-1905 war. So taking out the enemies battleships made sense.

It's easy to see now that naval aviation was a key factor in the Pacific War, but that was as unknown then to the Japanese as it was to the US.

It is interesting to consider what if Japan did not attack Pearl Harbor, but opened the war against the West in the same way that they did everywhere else in the same schedule. Prior to December 7th, the US was divided between isolationist and interventionist. The Pearl Harbor attack was so shocking and unifying as to quash that argument once and for all. But it in no way obligated the US to join the war in Europe which was distinctly seperate. Only Germany's declaration of war in the US, which it was not obligated to do by the Axis pact, allowed for the US to join both wars, European and Pacific. 

It is doubtful that if Japan had attacked only outlying US territories such as Guam and the Philippines at the outbreak of hostilities, that those would have had the same unifying and galvanizing effect upon the nation. Sure, some of the isolationist folks would have changed their views. But I suspect that their still may have been a significant group of folks saying we should stay out of the war. 

Essentially it was going to take a shock of the level of Pearl Harbor to get the US "all in".

Gamera

Sorry Joe, hope I didn't come off the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be too picky. 

 

Not at all my friend.  The events of those years was horrific.  The destruction and inhumane actions of all the entities need to be remembered.  I tend to focus on just the attack as this is something that interests me greatly.  There were other actions and events that could be discussed in the same way.  

Joe

FDR said in his speech to Congress that it is "a date which will live in infamy" It is a day I can never forget. I was just four years old and at my grandmother's when I learned of the attack. It is a memory I have  had ever since.

Buckeye

 

 

Toshi

 Toshi, was that Daniel Inouye?

Mike

 

 

 

 

Yes sir.  You are correct.

 

Toshi

 

 

 

 

A true American hero!

Mike

 

Toshi

Gamera

Sorry Joe, hope I didn't come off the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be too picky. 

Scott: Not going to get into politics but just happy to live in a world where people like Toshi and I can be friends. 

 

LOL!  LOL!  Seriously, here I'm not Gameras friend, he's my brother!  we are all brothers and sisters here on FSM Forum!  I love you all!

Toshi

Toshi

 Toshi, was that Daniel Inouye?

Mike

 

 

 

 

Yes sir.  You are correct.

 

Toshi

 

A true American hero!

Mike

Sorry Joe, hope I didn't come off the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be too picky. 

Scott: Not going to get into politics but just happy to live in a world where people like Toshi and I can be friends. 

This day, as I read from Toshi and Gamera's posts, and look upon experiences from a great aunt and uncle who was interened by the Japanese in Java , not only should be remembered as a day of an attack against a nation, but a day when the world of all races and origins would fight against each other in order to win superiority and submission of one ethnic over another.  I wish the current generation, who are claiming they are being oppressed by our government because of their race, can see how it actually was for people of color, religion, or of asian decent before, and then after Dec 7, 1941.  I do have strong feelings that because of this day, the great people who suffered internment, great loss, and even ridicule through this period, were able to overcome it and in 1964, help pass a law in the US that actually created a chance for equality for all races and ethnics.  December 7, 1941 was a tragic day, but if it had not happened, would have our racial prejudices ever sufaced to be recognized and dealt with?  

Last night on CBS news, they closed with a story on the USS Arizona.  A man had an uncle that he was named for on her.  He came up with a memorial at the University of Arizona, in the main commons.  An outline of her main deck, full size, done in red.  It cuts through lawn,sidewalks, etc.  When they did the measurements they found they had 5/8" to play with.

Across it there is a structure that is remindful of an open ship's bridge.  On it are discs with all 1177 names and rates.  He put in the last one, his uncles.

I wonder how many people will walk around/over it and never realize it is there.

Buckeye

 

 

Toshi

After all this, a distant uncle signed up for the 442nd. Battalion to fight in the European war.  He later became a US Senator.  I still remember as a young child following him as we toured his office and viewing the area of where the Hawaii State Senate met.  It was so cool.  I was 6 years old.  I did always noticed he had only one arm.  I was too young to realize what had happened.  

 

 

 

Toshi, was that Daniel Inouye?

Mike

 

Toshi

Gamera

If I may nitpick just a little though, war was raging in Asia too. The Japanese Empire invaded Korea in 1910 and treated them as second-class Japanese eventually exporting Korean men as slave labour and women as 'comfort women' aka sex slaves for the Imperial military. Then in 1937 the war with China broke out with the empire cutting a path of blood and corpses across Asia including the 'Rape of Nanjing' with an estimated 300,000 mostly Chinese civilians massacred.

 

You are absolutely correct.  The unfortunate part of that is at the time the war in Asia was not viewed the same.  A sad testiment to the overall world view of much of America at the time.  

Joe

Toshi

After all this, a distant uncle signed up for the 442nd. Battalion to fight in the European war.  He later became a US Senator.  I still remember as a young child following him as we toured his office and viewing the area of where the Hawaii State Senate met.  It was so cool.  I was 6 years old.  I did always noticed he had only one arm.  I was too young to realize what had happened.  

Toshi, was that Daniel Inouye?

Mike

Joe,

Thanks for remembering.  I plan to go by the local aviation museum tomorrow to donate a few things.  I hope Mr. Halbert will be there, who flew B-26s during the war.  I want to ask him what he remembers about that day, where he was and what he was doing.

And I'll watch "Tora, Tora, Tora" as I usually do.

Good day to you all.

Gary

Hey Joe thanks for the reminder and very well put.

If I may nitpick just a little though, war was raging in Asia too. The Japanese Empire invaded Korea in 1910 and treated them as second-class Japanese eventually exporting Korean men as slave labour and women as 'comfort women' aka sex slaves for the Imperial military. Then in 1937 the war with China broke out with the empire cutting a path of blood and corpses across Asia including the 'Rape of Nanjing' with an estimated 300,000 mostly Chinese civilians massacred.

Toshi: Thanks, I always enjoy hearing your stories. Insane times back then, hopefully never again.

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

Toshi, you're lucky you have family in Japan. I've always wanted to go ther. I'd do anything to take the road less travelled to experience the true culture without the tourism aspect involved. Look me up next time you head out to Japan. I'll tag along. LOL!

 

Finally, my parents gave up and pulled me out of Japanese school.  When I went to Japan, I learned to speak, read, and write the language fluently because I had to.  How was I going to converse with my grandmother?  Until my job related accident, I still could speak, read, and write Japanese fluently.  Alas, since my accident I lost some of what I used to know.  Gamera helped me to remember some lost things.  

Since then, I try to practice Japanese when I have the time.  I would love to go back to Asakusa, Tokyo with you.  LOL!  My grandmother owned a Ryokan a Japanese inn on Kappa Bashi Doro.  It's known for potery and restaurant supplies.  Asakusa is also known for it's eateries.  Some over 200 years old.  Now you got me hungry.  You see what you did!  LOL!

Toshi

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

I loved reading your posts Toshi. I, too never forget December 7th every year. In fact, I always ask my wife and son what today is every year on December 7th just to remind them of the significance of that day in history. Hey, ya gotta instill the meaning right? 

 

Toshi

Dad's birthday was on the 7th, and a sister was on the 6th, so it was always there for us, and still is.

Toshi, you're lucky you have family in Japan. I've always wanted to go ther. I'd do anything to take the road less travelled to experience the true culture without the tourism aspect involved. Look me up next time you head out to Japan. I'll tag along. LOL!

I loved reading your posts Toshi. I, too never forget December 7th every year. In fact, I always ask my wife and son what today is every year on December 7th just to remind them of the significance of that day in history. Hey, ya gotta instill the meaning right? 

My dad later in life served in the USAF in Wiesbaden, Germany Strategic Air Command.  I sit here writing this not in fear nor anger but to remember those who lost their lives for us to be able to live in this great country of ours, the USA!  War is the worst of human traits.  We have the ability to love, create paintings, create music, and on and on on all these beautiful things.  I hope for my children and my children's children's sake that they would never have to experience a world war.  

Lon my mothers side, she's from Tokyo Japan.  She was too little to remember anything, maybe that was a good thing!  But my mothers mother my grandmother remembers.  

I used to spend beautiful summers in Asakusa, Japan.  One of the oldest suburbs of Tokyo.  I could never imagine the destruction Tokyo went through.  It was New York x's 10!  Pure excitement and adrenaline.  One evening as I sat with my grandmother I asked; "Do you hate me because I'm an American?"  She replied;"Because your American and I see you rarely, I love you even more so as you live so far away!"

Toshi

Amen, Joe

Just saw in our paper the other day we only have one survivor left in the county, and he was honored at our Veteran's Day Parade, even though he was not able to attend.

They are a vanishing breed, as are the rest of the WWII vets.

After the attack, MP's forced my family to an area that held Japanese Americans until the war eneded.  Till this day I have no idea what my great grandmother looks like nor my dad when he was young.  One of my uncles used to have a CB radio tower as a hobby.  They arrested him and he also lost all of his possessions and was interred in a Japanese American neighborhood.  

After all this, a distant uncle signed up for the 442nd. Battalion to fight in the European war.  He later became a US Senator.  I still remember as a young child following him as we toured his office and viewing the area of where the Hawaii State Senate met.  It was so cool.  I was 6 years old.  I did always noticed he had only one arm.  I was too young to realize what had happened.  

Mrs. Toshi and I being born in Honolulu, Hawaii are constantly reminded each year of that terrible day in 1942.  

My dad was 5 years old shopping with his grandmother in downtown Honolulu on December 7.  He remembers vividly that there were airplanes flying above and said to his grandmother; "Look at those American planes".  His grandmother replied; "Those are not American planes, those are Japanese planes".  

All of a sudden, my dad noticed it started to rain.  He asked his grandmother why is it raining all of a sudden?  Grandmother replied; "That's not rain, those are the Japanese planes that are shooting at us!"  Just as she ended her sentence, loud explosions erupted from afar and black smoke billowed from Pearl Harbor.  Then the sirens sounded aloud.  What's ironic was my dad realized that the military had no idea of the attack until it happened.  That's why the sirens blared after the smoke rose.  He was only 5 and figured this out on his own.  

They both ran home as quickly as possible and grandmother destroyed anything that was Japanese in the house and burned all photos.  She then took out her American citizenship papers and displayed an American flag.  She feared for their lives. 

Toshi

Well Said ! T.B.

Yep, thats how it all started. 

Always remembered.