Was the F-14 Tomcat a success?

It's like a great sports team or player who wasn't seriously challenged by the competition.It doesnt make them any less successful because they were not challenged.You can only beat the ones you play.

tempestjohnny

Well the Tomcat did shoot down a couple of Libyan Su-22's. Oh and those 2 Zeros on December 7th..:) 

You forgot the four(?) Mig 28's, all shot down with the same missile..

Phil_H

 

 

tempestjohnny

Well the Tomcat did shoot down a couple of Libyan Su-22's. Oh and those 2 Zeros on December 7th..:) 

 

 

 

You forgot the four(?) Mig 28's, all shot down with the same missile..

 

I think it was very successful. Iran used them well, both in combat and as a deterrent.

The USN did all kinds of things with them both during and following DS1.

It’s primary mission, carrier battlegroup defense against Soviet bombers firing stand off missiles against the carrier battle group never came to pass in reality. They did fly escorts to strikes in Libya, Lebanon, against the Iranian Navy and intercepts in those couple Libyan incidents. And they did fly as escorts in Desert Storm, but it was the Eagle that ruled the skies there and was the top killer. It’s later years saw it as a bomb dropper in the Balkans and Afghanistan as they were being phased out, primarily for economics. The re engined B & D models addressed the shortcomings of the A, but it was getting older and more costly to keep on the line. And let’s face it, if the Russian or Chinese long range bomber threat were to re emerge today, the Super Hornet does not have the stand off range capability that the Tomcat had. The AMRAAM is supposed to work at max range of a bit under 60 nm head on, while the Phoenix had nearly double that range. Although the latest AIM-120D is the latest extended range version with a classified max range, so, maybe they are getting close to regaining that lost capability.

And not to forget that it wasn't a white paper design, but was the *** son of the F-111B.

I've known two aviators who flew them and loved the airplane.

Not mentioned here is the one that shot down an A-4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP9b7McyAk

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

The TF-30 engines and what would evolve into the AWG-9 radar and Phoenix missile systems were actually a holdover from the late '50s F6D Missileer concept aircraft. This was essentially a subsonic missile truck with a long loiter time which was intended to create a picket at a long distance from the fleet it was defending. The navy didn't like the idea but kept the core components for the F-111B and eventually, the F-14.

Numerically, the F-14 didn't achieve a great number of kills, but I'd put that down to lack of opportunity rather than any sort of design deficiency. The scorecard from the actual engagements speaks for itself, as does its tenure (35+ years) as a front-line combat aircraft.

Phil_H

 Numerically, the F-14 didn't achieve a great number of kills, but I'd put that down to lack of opportunity rather than any sort of design deficiency. The scorecard from the actual engagements speaks for itself, as does its tenure (35+ years) as a front-line combat aircraft.

 

Ditto. It was an awesome weapons platform. This is my favorite modern jet and have built over a dozen in 1/48 and 1/72. 

Hey !

Youse guys talking about my favorite bird ? I loved it when the Monogram kit came out and still love it now . I have the Hasegawa and Tamiya in the stash . Both looked good to me .

TB

I have done several Revellograms that build up nice but do need lots of putty, sanding and TLC. The Tamiya kit will blow you away at how well the parts fit and the outstanding detail quality. Even the missiles are better detailed than Hasegawa's. Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

plasticjunkie

Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

A D is coming, with bombs 

http://www.tamiya.com/japan/newstopics/2018/0509newitem/index.html

The F-14 and the surface ship escorts complimented one another. It was a multi layer defense of the carrier battle group with the Tomcat/Phoenix being the outermost layer, all connected by data link. Any aircraft and missiles penetrating those layers would be engaged by the Aegis equipped ships, then finally with the shorter range  systems of Sea Sparrow and then CIWS.

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

Phil_H

 

plasticjunkie

Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

 

 

A D is coming, with bombs 

http://www.tamiya.com/japan/newstopics/2018/0509newitem/index.html

 

 

Oh wow Phil, thanks! Can't wait to get that baby!!

GMorrison

 

 

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

 

 

 

A polite way of say that they were the only useful components ( other than the aviators) of a poorly conceived original design.

 

 

It was a compromise pulled into differing directions by each service. The Air Force wanted one thing, a long range all weather low level strike aircraft, while the Navy wanted a carrier based fleet defense missile armed interceptor. Both services compromised in their specs and requirements to get the aircraft into final designs. While in the end, the Air Force did get a great aircraft eventually, the Navy did not. The F-35 has similar problems. But a third service was added to the mix and their requirements added further compromises and conflicts. 

GMorrison

 

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

 

A polite way of say that they were the only useful components ( other than the aviators) of a poorly conceived original design.

 

The F-14 didn't reach its full potential until it was re-engined with the GE F110's. More thrust, better range, better payload and impotantly, more reliable.

Someone mentioned the F-35. It's always the same; DoD sells a program based on a concept of universal usefulness. The F-111 was a really good AF bomber, but as a carrier capable bomber, no.

This was also in the tailwind of the various forces all looking for nuclear weapon capability.

And of course the Tomcat needed to be sold to Iran to sell Congress.

Make no mistake, in the late '60s Iran was a very important ally.

A good friend of mine served 20 years in Iran on the border working SIGINT against the USSR.

But I digress. The F-14 may well be along with the F-15 the apogee of US fighter design.

El Dorado Canyon was a very heroic mission. Today we can remember Ribas and Lorenc.

The Navy never wanted the F-111 as a strike aircraft. They already had the A-6 for that role. The F-111 gave the Air Force the all weather low level capability that the Navy already had. Just in a Mach 2 airframe, as opposed to subsonic.

And yes, until the Shah fell in ‘79, Iran was a very important ally. And one with lots of money. The Kidd class destroyers were what the USN wanted on the Spruance hull and could not quite afford, but Iran could. The Challenger MBT was made by Britain to Iranian for the Shah‘s army. The list goes on.

The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design. 

GMorrison

The F-111 was a really good AF bomber, but as a carrier capable bomber, no.

The F-111B wasn't planned as a bomber. It was intended to be a long-range fleet defense interceptor armed with advanced missiles. Then they wanted dogfighting capability, then they wanted this and that. Each time a design goal was achieved, the Navy moved the goalposts. Weight blew out to 80,000+ pounds and it still couldn't do all of what they wanted, so it was cancelled.

stikpusher

The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design.

Keep in mind that the F14 and F-15 are/were essentially '60's technology, both types entering service in the early '70s. That makes them all the more remarkable... 

Totally a bunch of worthless opinions on my part:

(Except here) Most successful USN carrier aircraft was in fact the FM-1 Wildcat. Make you like Grumman.

Best carrier aircraft in WW2: Grumman F6F Hellcat.

Best post WW2 USN carrier aircraft: hard to say but the Panther, the Tiger and the Cougar are all good choices. Umm... Grumman.

Best Vietnam era carrier aircraft. Give one to Douglas, but also Intruder and Hawkeye.

Bad ass carrier aircraft from that era: F4.

My favorite esoteric aircraft off of Navy decks: Vigilante.

No one has one like this ever AWARD: F-14 Tomcat (Get the drift on heritage?)

Current best ever and probably useful for a long time. F-18.

Phil_H

 

 

stikpusher

The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design.

 

 

Keep in mind that the F14 and F-15 are/were essentially '60's technology, both types entering service in the early '70s. That makes them all the more remarkable... 

 

The ‘teen series fighters are indeed remarkable. Although they actually did not enter operational service until the mid 70’s with the F-14 making its first cruise on Enterprise to cover the evacuation of Saigon in ‘75, and the F-15 entering service a year later. The F-16 and F/A-18 closed out the 70’s with their development.

After those four types, the RFP/Design/Development & Flight Test/Production process slowed down glacially with their replacements. While the Tomcat is now gone, the Eagle is entering its fifth decade of front line service with the USAF. Remarkable indeed.