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Was the F-14 Tomcat a success?

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  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Sunday, June 3, 2018 4:52 PM

Maybe the Top Gun franchise should follow the lead of "Star Wars" and make some prequals.  Maybe they could scrounge some F-4's, Mig-17's and -21's.  That way they could show Maverick's Dad and Viper fighting "Bogies like fireflies, all over the sky."   

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Saturday, June 2, 2018 10:11 PM
Can't wait for TG2! Show me the jets! BTW, if you count the kills in the movie, it was a 4:1 ratio, not bad, but not perfection...
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Naples, FL
Posted by tempestjohnny on Saturday, June 2, 2018 9:40 PM
The Tomcat was in service for 40 years I'd say that's pretty good

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Naples, FL
Posted by tempestjohnny on Saturday, June 2, 2018 9:37 PM

[quote user="plasticjunkie"]

ridleusmc
 
ridleusmc

The unit had the tomcats for over 25 years of military wear and tear.  I'd say that's successful. 

 

 

 

Talking about success, the B-52 came out in 1955 and is still in service. Talk about a plane that technically a grandfather, son, and grandson have sat at the controls of the Stratofortress. They have plans to retire it around 2050. Holy crap that is a 95 year run!!

 

Every BUFF in service now is older then it's pilot 

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Saturday, June 2, 2018 8:52 PM

[quote user="ridleusmc"]

ridleusmc

The unit had the tomcats for over 25 years of military wear and tear.  I'd say that's successful. 

 

 

Talking about success, the B-52 came out in 1955 and is still in service. Talk about a plane that technically a grandfather, son, and grandson have sat at the controls of the Stratofortress. They have plans to retire it around 2050. Holy crap that is a 95 year run!!

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Saturday, June 2, 2018 5:16 PM

Aside from high maintenance required for an obviously complex machine, the Tomcat suffered from the TF-30 turbofans inherited from the F-111 program.  Like the F-111, the F-14 suffered its share of compressor stalls and surging. I wonder if the problems were the fault of the engine design rather than the intakes?  When the F-14D was re-engined with the GE units, it was finally the "Top Gun" of the fleet.  Kind of sad that the US is replacing mach 2 fighters with slower ones.  How will our fighter boys catch mach 2+ Su-27s and other similar current jets?

The F-14 was a really cool jet, regardless of any problems or shortcomings.

"Top Gun 2"... ugh.  It was cool watching the first one in college, but it just seems dumb today.  And isn't Tom Cruise, like, old? Will they use some Eastern European primary jet trainer for the next MiG, or will Maverick be tangling with CGI Chinese fighters like the J-20?

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, June 2, 2018 4:43 PM

 

 

tempestjohnny

 

 
Phil_H

 

 
tempestjohnny
Well the Tomcat did shoot down a couple of Libyan Su-22's. Oh and those 2 Zeros on December 7th..:) 

 

 

You forgot the four(?) Mig 28's, all shot down with the same missile..Cool

 

 

 

Oh yeah. How could I forget Mav and Ice 

 

 

He’s coming back... with a promotion... but no Tomcat...

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:50 PM

I work with two gentlemen that served as maintainers in a Navy squadron.  Both of these gentlemen were involved in re-equipping the unit from F-14's to F-18's.  They prefered the F-18's.  No suprise there.  They liked the new bird.  The unit had the tomcats for over 25 years of military wear and tear.  I'd say that's successful.  I hope my pickup truck lasts that long, and it gets babied.    

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:43 AM

Phil_H

 

 
stikpusher
The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design.

 

Keep in mind that the F14 and F-15 are/were essentially '60's technology, both types entering service in the early '70s. That makes them all the more remarkable... 

 

The ‘teen series fighters are indeed remarkable. Although they actually did not enter operational service until the mid 70’s with the F-14 making its first cruise on Enterprise to cover the evacuation of Saigon in ‘75, and the F-15 entering service a year later. The F-16 and F/A-18 closed out the 70’s with their development.

After those four types, the RFP/Design/Development & Flight Test/Production process slowed down glacially with their replacements. While the Tomcat is now gone, the Eagle is entering its fifth decade of front line service with the USAF. Remarkable indeed.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:37 PM

Totally a bunch of worthless opinions on my part:

(Except here) Most successful USN carrier aircraft was in fact the FM-1 Wildcat. Make you like Grumman.

Best carrier aircraft in WW2: Grumman F6F Hellcat.

Best post WW2 USN carrier aircraft: hard to say but the Panther, the Tiger and the Cougar are all good choices. Umm... Grumman.

Best Vietnam era carrier aircraft. Give one to Douglas, but also Intruder and Hawkeye.

Bad ass carrier aircraft from that era: F4.

My favorite esoteric aircraft off of Navy decks: Vigilante.

No one has one like this ever AWARD: F-14 Tomcat (Get the drift on heritage?)

 

Current best ever and probably useful for a long time. F-18.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:33 PM

stikpusher
The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design.

Keep in mind that the F14 and F-15 are/were essentially '60's technology, both types entering service in the early '70s. That makes them all the more remarkable... 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:29 PM

GMorrison
The F-111 was a really good AF bomber, but as a carrier capable bomber, no.

The F-111B wasn't planned as a bomber. It was intended to be a long-range fleet defense interceptor armed with advanced missiles. Then they wanted dogfighting capability, then they wanted this and that. Each time a design goal was achieved, the Navy moved the goalposts. Weight blew out to 80,000+ pounds and it still couldn't do all of what they wanted, so it was cancelled.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:19 PM

The Navy never wanted the F-111 as a strike aircraft. They already had the A-6 for that role. The F-111 gave the Air Force the all weather low level capability that the Navy already had. Just in a Mach 2 airframe, as opposed to subsonic.

And yes, until the Shah fell in ‘79, Iran was a very important ally. And one with lots of money. The Kidd class destroyers were what the USN wanted on the Spruance hull and could not quite afford, but Iran could. The Challenger MBT was made by Britain to Iranian for the Shah‘s army. The list goes on.

The F-14/F-15 are the epitome of our combat tested air superiority fighter designs, but I suspect that the F-22 can put both to shame if need be one day. As things stand today, it is our last pure air superiority design. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:17 PM

El Dorado Canyon was a very heroic mission. Today we can remember Ribas and Lorenc.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 28, 2018 9:47 PM

Someone mentioned the F-35. It's always the same; DoD sells a program based on a concept of universal usefulness. The F-111 was a really good AF bomber, but as a carrier capable bomber, no.

This was also in the tailwind of the various forces all looking for nuclear weapon capability.

And of course the Tomcat needed to be sold to Iran to sell Congress.

Make no mistake, in the late '60s Iran was a very important ally.

A good friend of mine served 20 years in Iran on the border working SIGINT against the USSR.

But I digress. The F-14 may well be along with the F-15 the apogee of US fighter design.

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, May 28, 2018 8:43 PM

GMorrison

 

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

 

A polite way of say that they were the only useful components ( other than the aviators) of a poorly conceived original design.

 

The F-14 didn't reach its full potential until it was re-engined with the GE F110's. More thrust, better range, better payload and impotantly, more reliable.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, May 28, 2018 1:57 PM

GMorrison

 

 
stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

 

 

A polite way of say that they were the only useful components ( other than the aviators) of a poorly conceived original design.

 

 

It was a compromise pulled into differing directions by each service. The Air Force wanted one thing, a long range all weather low level strike aircraft, while the Navy wanted a carrier based fleet defense missile armed interceptor. Both services compromised in their specs and requirements to get the aircraft into final designs. While in the end, the Air Force did get a great aircraft eventually, the Navy did not. The F-35 has similar problems. But a third service was added to the mix and their requirements added further compromises and conflicts. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, May 28, 2018 1:56 PM

Phil_H
 
plasticjunkie
Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

 

A D is coming, with bombs 

http://www.tamiya.com/japan/newstopics/2018/0509newitem/index.html

 

 

 

Oh wow Phil, thanks! Can't wait to get that baby!!

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:18 AM

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

A polite way of say that they were the only useful components ( other than the aviators) of a poorly conceived original design.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, May 27, 2018 9:32 PM

The F-14 and the surface ship escorts complimented one another. It was a multi layer defense of the carrier battle group with the Tomcat/Phoenix being the outermost layer, all connected by data link. Any aircraft and missiles penetrating those layers would be engaged by the Aegis equipped ships, then finally with the shorter range  systems of Sea Sparrow and then CIWS.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2018
  • From: Commonwealth of Virginia
Posted by VA Spartan on Sunday, May 27, 2018 9:15 PM
I would say the F-14 was a success but I think the purpose it was designed for is probably taken over by surface vessels acting in the air defense role defending the carrier battle group from Air interdiction. It wasn’t engineered for multi-role either so wasn’t really cost effective like the Hornet and Super Hornet. The Navy also had to free up money for F-35. As an asside, I know a number of Navy pilots who say it was stupid to retire the Tomcat and go with the Super Hornet as the later lacks the range and air to air capacity of the former.

On the workbench: 1/35 Takom T-54B; 1/35 Tamiya Char B1bis w/French Infantry; 1/48 Tamiya Fairey Swordfish Mk. 1

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Sunday, May 27, 2018 6:39 PM

plasticjunkie
Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

A D is coming, with bombs 

http://www.tamiya.com/japan/newstopics/2018/0509newitem/index.html

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, May 27, 2018 6:21 PM

TB

I have done several Revellograms that build up nice but do need lots of putty, sanding and TLC. The Tamiya kit will blow you away at how well the parts fit and the outstanding detail quality. Even the missiles are better detailed than Hasegawa's. Would love to see a Bobcat or D from Tamiya in 1/48.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Sunday, May 27, 2018 2:33 PM

Hey !

Youse guys talking about my favorite bird ? I loved it when the Monogram kit came out and still love it now . I have the Hasegawa and Tamiya in the stash . Both looked good to me .

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, May 27, 2018 10:06 AM

Phil_H
 Numerically, the F-14 didn't achieve a great number of kills, but I'd put that down to lack of opportunity rather than any sort of design deficiency. The scorecard from the actual engagements speaks for itself, as does its tenure (35+ years) as a front-line combat aircraft.
 

Ditto. It was an awesome weapons platform. This is my favorite modern jet and have built over a dozen in 1/48 and 1/72. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Sunday, May 27, 2018 2:47 AM

stikpusher

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

The TF-30 engines and what would evolve into the AWG-9 radar and Phoenix missile systems were actually a holdover from the late '50s F6D Missileer concept aircraft. This was essentially a subsonic missile truck with a long loiter time which was intended to create a picket at a long distance from the fleet it was defending. The navy didn't like the idea but kept the core components for the F-111B and eventually, the F-14.

Numerically, the F-14 didn't achieve a great number of kills, but I'd put that down to lack of opportunity rather than any sort of design deficiency. The scorecard from the actual engagements speaks for itself, as does its tenure (35+ years) as a front-line combat aircraft.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Sunday, May 27, 2018 2:43 AM

Wirraway: I did read about the Iranians – some accounts are in question no?
 
Tempestjohnny – the gulf of sidra incident is definitely a win – I did an inflight poorly scaled diorama back when I was in my early 20s
 
Tojo72 – agree.  All dressed up and nowhere to go.
 
Phil_H – this is the credibility issue regarding the Iranian reports
 
Mississippivol – ha, I’ve had this Hasegawa kit for years, half butchered for the Verlinden super details sets to complicate things.  The Tamiya kit OOB I’m sure will be a breeze
 
Stickpusher – that’s what I’m talking about.  An amazing weapon system that never got challenged.  Bad subject title I suppose.  IIR the Tomcat could simultaneously track and kill multiple targets at long range.
 
GM: I am a Tomcat fan, met a couple pilots in my years as well.  Jester didn’t have a chance, but Maverick broke the rules lol
 
GM and Stick – I didn’t know about the F-111 lineage.  Interesting for sure.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, May 27, 2018 12:18 AM

Yes, the Admiral in charge of the Navy side of the F-111 project had the engines, radar, and Phoenix system flight tested in the F-111B, that were all incorporated into his baby, the F-14.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, May 26, 2018 1:52 PM

And not to forget that it wasn't a white paper design, but was the *** son of the F-111B.

I've known two aviators who flew them and loved the airplane.

Not mentioned here is the one that shot down an A-4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP9b7McyAk

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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