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Need some general help & directions in regards to aftermarket parts & reference books

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  • Member since
    February 2009
Need some general help & directions in regards to aftermarket parts & reference books
Posted by DonAldo on Monday, February 23, 2009 5:22 PM

Hey guys, as I mentioned before in my introduction, I am trying to get back into building kits and while the technical aspect of it, is easily understood and there are a great many books on it, the reference and aftermarket aspect leaves me dazzled and feeling alone in a huge world. There's several things....

First of all, it seems to me that, after reading lots of online reviews, that there must me a magic place out there, that lists almost all the after-market detail kits and rates their realistic-factor, be they resin, photoetch or you-name-it. However, doing a bit of research on the kit I want to build next (Trumpeter's 1:32 F-105G), I found out that google is not much help, when looking for after-market detail sets. I found nearly nothing. Only after digging through several forums, did I stumble over a link to Eduard's PE sets. Ok, I should check the big companies, like Eduard, Verlinden, etc - but what about all the smaller sets? How do you guys know about them? Is there a few pages out there, that deal with that? Should I just subscribe to FSM (Which I am planning on doing, but I still doubt that this will magic my woes away). How do you find all the stuff you need for a kit?

How do you compare detail kits? There's (I think) at least two resin cockpits out there for the kit that I am building, plus several Eduard PE sets that come together to an awesome cockpit and ejection seats - which one is better/more realistic? How would I know? It seems that reviewers, or just people building a kit and posting about it online, are easily able to tell that manufacturer X's set of resin ejection-seats are not right, because they are half a millimeter too large at one part. Or even worse, comment on the wrong size and form of kit parts, which I could understand when we're talking about smaller parts or REALLY obvious errors. But they are then usually changing minute details of the nosecone, or something. So, how does this work? Is every reviewer out there an aircraft engineer, who goes and looks at the real thing and then measures it to compare it to the kit? Again, how do they do it? I understand that there's "walkaround" books on craft, that have nice pictures and stuff, but owning some of them I know that they don't list the flaws of Kit X Y and Z. And somehow I doubt that one would be able to somehow do more than a general judging/estimating if something is the right size.

Errr, I am not sure if this is all that went around in my head at some point, but I hope that I covered all my questions. If not, I will ammend it later. I want to not only build (and paint) a beautiful kit, but I want to get started using aftermarket parts and details, maybe do some scratch-detailing and use reference material - but there really is no "how to" for those. So, thanks for any input and pushing in the right directions! :-)

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Cleveland, OH
Posted by RadMax8 on Monday, February 23, 2009 11:37 PM

Whoa, Nelly! Heck of a post! I'll try to give you a hand here.

When looking for aftermarket stuff, I always check a few key sites: Squadron.com, SprueBros.com, RollModels.com (Just to name a few). From there, I've learned about quite a few differenet companies and found a plethora of other things. 

A good site for checking out reviews is aircraftresourcecenter.com and IPMSStockholm.org. If you build WWII stuff, check out Swannysmodels.com. He's got reviews of kits and aftermarket accessories, plus a TON of information about basic techniques. Of course, asking around here is a great source of information, as well.

Now, this is just my two cents, but seeing as how you're just trying to get back into the swing of things, I'd pick up an inexpensive kit or five and hone my techniques on them. Maybe your 3rd of 4th try a resin cockpit. Then maybe a basic photoetch set. You've got to work your way up. For my second kit back into the hobby, I tried to tackle Revell's 1/48th B-1B. That was 5 years ago. It's still sitting, half finished. Take your time, ask questions, and show your work. You'll be better off for it in the end. After the B-1 debaucle, I tried a simpler build and learned a lot more. Good luck, and don't be a stranger!

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by DonAldo on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 4:14 AM

Hi RadMax8!

Thanks for the directions in regards to aftermarket stuff. I took a look and I think this might help out greatly. :-)

In regards to getting back into things, I understand what you're saying and usually I'd agree with you. It's just that building the kits is no mystery to me anymore, I just always sucked at painting. But now I know the techniqus & the routine (it's like driving a bike) and every once in a while, I'd try something on leftover plastic parts (washes, weathering, etc) or gave a few friends tips for their table-top wargaming armies. Also, I forgot to mention that I *did* build another one kit inbetween: A 1/96 Saturn V with NewWare addons (and one day, I will get the new command module and F1 boosters). Since that kit is pretty straight forward, painting wise (straight lines, no mottle camo, nothing :P), I could really concentrate on the new stuff and I had no problems whatsoever. Maybe I'll build a smaller kit, just to get back into it, and add a few detail addons, though definitely nothing under 1:48.


 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:18 AM

Welcome to the world of aftermarket accessories!

First of all, you will not find one comprehensive source that lists all available aftermarket accessories, even for one particular scale/genre (i.e. just 1/35 armor or just 1/72 aircraft). Even sites that dedicate themselves to a particular vehicle type (say Patton tank models because I know there is a site for them) don't have all information for every Patton tank item in 1/35 scale.

Secondly, many reviews of these accessories are done by modelers such as yourself. The quality of the review is only as good as the writing skills and knowledge of the reviewer. I have seen very well written articles about items the reviewer really doesn't know much about, therefore they didn't address accuracy issues.

I've also seen article poorly written by modelers who knew their stuff. While sometimes they can be a chore to read, they do tend to be very valuable.

And of course, there are also conflicting reviews. A reviewer at one site may like an item and another at a different site may not. Which leads me to caution you about something most web-saavy folks should already know; look out for "sock puppets". Sock puppets are online personas created by some of the model companies. When several reputable reviewers will pan an item, a sock puppet will materialize and sing the praises of the item and sometimes a second sock puppet will pop up to try and discredit the reviewers.

Dragon models is notorious for this, although they are often very obvious and their one main sock puppet has become a running joke on several armor forums. It is sad that they haven't figured out their sock puppet is a laughing stock.

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by DonAldo on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:15 AM

Heh, thanks for pointing that one out. I was sure that something like those sock puppets would exist, but I'd rather think that it would be more like fanboys, coming to their beloved company's aid (just like with the usualy AMD vs Intel debates on computer forums). Not the company themselves.

Yeah, I guess searching for/finding aftermarket kits seems to be a huge chore. I tried searching google for sets for the Thud and came out pretty empty. I am not an idiot (at least not completely :P), but even finding that one thing, with several search terms (and variants thereof) was a chore. All one finds is mostly shops or reviews, with a few builds, who sadly usually build it straight from the box *argh*.
So, I guess that at least google is no good and one has to know where to look for new releases and also a listing of old kits. Mostly I just try to read every review and build I can find on several pages and see if (and what) they mention, make notes and then check it out - and hope to find more than just the one add-on I searched for (like it was the case with Eduard, who offer some 5 PE sets).

And in regards to reviews, you're right of course about some people writing good articles with little content and vice versa, but it always seems to me that the really good ones just seem to know so unbelievably much about the aircraft they are building - and they do that in every build report they do. It kinda frightens me a little bit. I mean, one needs to compare pictures to see if the kit is right: Are the hatches at the right position? Are there any imaginary things on the kit that never existed? And so on. But when I read about people who go "The entire shape is incorrect; instead of a smoothly flowing curve from the middle of the windscreen forward, it is a straight line, making the whole nose too thin and pointy from all angles. This was fixed by replacing the entire nose from mid-windscreen to tip with one from a Collectaire resin kit that I had gotten as a gift." This is straight from Frank Mitchell's F-105G build on hyperscale.com, and he goes on about even more incorrect parts, especially the entire fuselage that he then bends to get into the right shape(s). See what I mean with "it kinda frightens me"? Just how and where does one aquire all the knowledge to be able to judge that? Do they just spend hours looking at every part, comparing them with some blueprint and all the photos they can get? Measuring and calculating?

Oh, one more question, if I may, inspired by my current build-planning:
Are PE sets usually better than Resin stuff? I noticed that, of all the stuff I looked at, the resin stuff always looked worse than the PE stuff. Still superior to the supplied kit parts, but the PE sets looked better, thinner, more detailed - well, you get it. As said, I have experience with both materials, but only as in "detail set came with resin and PE parts" not as in comparing one set of each, both designed to fit the same role (like resin & PE cockpit versions). Of course there's stuff you simply don't want to build out of PE, like anything that would require several pieces of PE glued on top of each other. Like, for example, a tail hook. So that obviously falls to Resin. But to me, using a sanded down original cockpit tub, with PE details glued on top, looks better than a complete resin tub. Also, PE ejector seats usually look nicer to me - but I don't have the experience of judging details (yet), so I ask. ;P

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:04 AM

PE compared to resin? They are usually used to duplicate different things. More complimentary than competitory. PE is used for thinner items, grills, etc. Resin often adds or accurizes details like replacing seats, wheels, nose, mantlets, etc.

One way to find out what items are available for the kit you want, is to check an online store. Many of them have filters to use in their search engines. For instance, at Great Models, if you look up a model kit, there is often a link to any associated accessories for that kit.

http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=TSM2202

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by DonAldo on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:20 AM

Thanks Rob! :-)

That's actually how I found out about the Eduard sets - a shop listed them under "suggestions".
I'm currently digging deeper into lots of big pages and am slowly piecing together information about detail kits. Of course, the most important ones are from companies that just went out of business last year. Censored [censored]

 

And in regards to Resin vs PE, well as said - I've compared Resin seats & cockpits to PE sets that use the original cockpit as "shape" and then are glued on top, to give detail. And somehow that always looks better.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:38 AM
 Another note on AM goodies, as well as kits themselves. This doesn't help your searce for what's avaliable but will give you some good deals. Go to a local contest, even if you don't enter anything. The venders can be a goldmine. You have to spend some time going through box after box after box........but most venders are willing to take a couple bucks off already marked down items, the more you buy, the more you save. Same goes for kits, I haven't payed full $ for a kit in about 5 yrs. Plus, you get the bonus of seeing all the great work and talking face to face to find out how things were done, and you get a helluva lot of inspiration! Contests are a win-win all around, even if you don't...win! 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:41 AM

While I have just gotten back to modeling after being away from it for a long time I have noticed that some sites will have links to accessories when you are looking at a specific model, I think Squadron does.

That's how I have been finding some of my info on parts.

I also look on every on line model store I see a link for or mentioned and try different searchs, some have listings just for resin or PE parts. 

Most of the folks here will tell you what AM parts they used on a given model. 

If someone mentions a maker do a search for them than look around for the best price and that it is IN STOCK

 

Eric... 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, February 26, 2009 3:14 AM

Wonder if there's ever going to come a time when I'll be in a room of other modelers and have to say, "Hello, my name is Hans and I'm a scratch-builder..." I wonder... Do I give up and give in?  Can I recover? Is even possible??  Is there a 12-step for scratch-builders? *sigh*...

Just kiddin' y'all... And lettin' ya know there's still a couple old-school modelers around here...Big Smile [:D]

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:31 PM

Being as how you've mentioned Trumpeter's 1/32 F-105 specifically. By most accounts, landing gear replacement is pretty much essential as the kit landing gear legs can't support the weight of the finished kit.

I'm led to believe these are one of the best aftermarket replacement sets for the kit's landing gear:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/801-900/Rev893_F-105_McGinnis/rev893.htm 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:27 PM

You know, I hate to give you what might sound like a flippnt answer, but in my opinion, you really just have to go out and buy a couple and see how you like the parts, or at the very least find a store that stocks them, and look at what they offer.

Any contests in your area? A great place to check out the vendors, who will undoubtedly have AM sets of varying kinds and types.

I learned simply by experimenting, and reading through forum threads, seeing what other people use.

And yes; SUBSCRIBE TO FINESCALE! You'll have better models, catch the new releases, have access to subscriber-only content here, and women will swoon as you walk by. Big Smile [:D]

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