How does China model modern U.S. aircraft?

I was always under the impression that the information that the general public got about our weapons, vehichles, aircraft, boats, etc, were last gen stuff, that when they release the 'new fighter' its really the one that just became obsolete, and that they never tell us what they have for national security sake, but I may be wrong  

spiralcity wrote:

Well, from my understanding  China is the only country in the world with a full fledged military program dedicated to hacking into computer grids. Didnt they just find evidence of hacking into the US electric grid? They claim it was the Chinese and Russian, but I also understand they have no proof who did it, but I dont think it's hard to figure out. Here's a link: http://www.nationalterroralert.com/updates/2009/04/07/us-electric-grid-hacked-by-chinese-and-russian-cyberspies/

The only full fledged military program that the general public knows about. Some abilities are best left secret.

Well, from my understanding  China is the only country in the world with a full fledged military program dedicated to hacking into computer grids.

Didnt they just find evidence of hacking into the US electric grid?

They claim it was the Chinese and Russian, but I also understand they have no proof who did it, but I dont think it's hard to figure out.

Here's a link:

http://www.nationalterroralert.com/updates/2009/04/07/us-electric-grid-hacked-by-chinese-and-russian-cyberspies/

usmc1371 wrote:

Well atleast  no classified computers are connected directly to the internet.  They are all stand alone machines even when networked.  But that wouldn't stop someone from burning a DVD and selling on the black market.  -Jesse

But there still is a security issue with the JSF program: somebody hacked the computers (maybe the chinese...)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html

Hans von Hammer wrote:

And don't forget "Aviation Leak" I remember when Apache pilots themselves couldn't take pics of the AH-64 instrument panels, yet there they were in full color, in Jane's Defense Weekly and Aviation Week...

The rear cockpit of the F-4G was classified as Secret and no one was allowed to take pictures of it.  There was a cover that folded down over the lower part of the instrument panel to hide it from view.  When the aircraft would go on static display, the cover was lowered and safety wired.  Some console control boxes would be removed and blank cover plates would be installed over the holes.  Then Detail and Scale released a book showing the RCP of the F-4G.  There was tape over some controles but still showed some of the secret items.  They could get away with it, but if I had done it, I would be serving time in federal prison.

JMart wrote:

no spies necessary at all...  as mentioned, just pick up any volume of Jane's (aviation or naval) for the latest news on military hardware. Shame they got out of the computer simulation business, they had some of the best ones years ago... just browse here (careful, next thing you will be doing is building a JET! ;) http://jawa.janes.com/public/jawa/index.shtml

since the year 2002 they've really tightened up on security with items bought for defense. Where I worked it took a special pass just to go into the plant that built tank transmissions. I lost mine when I changed plants, and had to have an escort everytime I went over there to do my job. In the tool room when we were building prototypes they pretty much had the place locked down, and it was like a ghost town in there. They even went so far as to make everybody in there bring in a birth certificate to prove their origin.

gary

no spies necessary at all...  as mentioned, just pick up any volume of Jane's (aviation or naval) for the latest news on military hardware. Shame they got out of the computer simulation business, they had some of the best ones years ago...

just browse here (careful, next thing you will be doing is building a JET! ;)

http://jawa.janes.com/public/jawa/index.shtml

the doog wrote:

I mean, they have hacked our DoD computers, and I don't think it'd be hard to get simple blueprints for our hardware?

Well atleast  no classified computers are connected directly to the internet.  They are all stand alone machines even when networked.  But that wouldn't stop someone from burning a DVD and selling on the black market. 

-Jesse 

ajlafleche wrote:

Aaron Skinner wrote: FSM's Paul Boyer relates this story (and I'm hoping my foggy memory has it right). One of the manufacturers to produce a correct looking F-117 had the model too short by a noticible amount because the one photo they had was from the front and slightly above so everything ws compressed. The good news is that when the real dimensions became available, they retooled the kit. That would have been the DML 1/200 version. I'm not aware they ever retooled that.

I double-checked with Paul this morning and he said it was Hasegawa's first kit that was stubby. Whe they realized the mistake they did away with the first and tooled a replacement.

Aaron Skinner wrote:

FSM's Paul Boyer relates this story (and I'm hoping my foggy memory has it right). One of the manufacturers to produce a correct looking F-117 had the model too short by a noticible amount because the one photo they had was from the front and slightly above so everything ws compressed. The good news is that when the real dimensions became available, they retooled the kit.

That would have been the DML 1/200 version. I'm not aware they ever retooled that.

When the "F-19" was released, there was congressional hue and cry, even though it was not even close to the real stealth. A couple years later, when pictures of the Have Blue were declassified,. they were darn close.

revell F-19

Have Blue

FSM's Paul Boyer relates this story (and I'm hoping my foggy memory has it right). One of the manufacturers to produce a correct looking F-117 had the model too short by a noticible amount because the one photo they had was from the front and slightly above so everything ws compressed. The good news is that when the real dimensions became available, they retooled the kit.

Hasegawa's MiG-25 was similar: folks from the Japanese manufacturer were some of the first on the scene when Belenko defected landing in Japan. Theor kit had pretty good dimensions but they fudged some details like panel lines.

And don't forget "Aviation Leak"

I remember when Apache pilots themselves couldn't take pics of the AH-64 instrument panels, yet there they were in full color, in Jane's Defense Weekly and Aviation Week...

That's all kind of scary.  If this is, in fact, how they get their information for every curve and detail of the inside and out of our new aircraft, it's kind of scary/funny that they replicate it and then sell it back to us.

Maybe one of the Chinese companies can come out with a new line of P-61s.  I know they have at least one of ours which they confiscated at the end of WW2! 

And I know competition is tough but I never knew that Hasegawa had their own spy satellites!  Just kidding.

Eric

Google is your friend

Thad

A simple little tome called; Jane's Fighting Aircraft.
Available in book stores near you.

W

And don't forget "Aviation Leak"

But seriously, there must be thousands of photos of these aircraft freely available in publications and on the net. The overall dimensions are published - given that these are known, it's not all that difficult to translate photos into a three-dimensional model.

Remember that Japanese companies, eg. Hasegawa and Fujimi, produced models of the Mig 29 based on published satellite and spy photos in the early/mid 80's. The general dimensions were more or less correct, but they differed in shape and contours in certain areas.

I'd say that it's probably in a large part due to the spies they have everywhere, I'm sure.

I mean, they have hacked our DoD computers, and I don't think it'd be hard to get simple blueprints for our hardware?

Either that or they probably have their own US planes.