Why is there no such thing as plagiarism in modelling ?

PLAGIARISM, Hmmm! I will be honest with all those of you out there who build models of whatever type.If one of you chose to duplicate any of my pieces I would be quite flattered actually.The idea of building a model that is so good that someone else would want to do a copy is the cats meow as far as I am concerned.This is a hobby. Now when you think of it,if you buy ,say a GEARING CLASS destroyer in 1/350  from the hobby shop and then convert it to a FRAM type is it plagiarism.?? I would think not. Why?? Well if you,re doing the model there,s a reason. Whether you served on one ,or think it,s a neat ship ,or you just want your model to be different is the driving force ,is it not?  I do build for money and if someone thought well enough of my work to try and emulate it I think I would be flattered. Now if that person or persons tried to pass off my work as theirs I would be somewhat upset. I admired SHEP PAINES work and others But, I would never try to pass off one of his pieces as mine if I owned one. HE built it not I. I personally would be quite selfish to claim someone elses work as mine. I will build what my clients or myself want. I will NOT claim someones work as mine. All of us build the models as we see fit.That,s what we are supposed to do. Or build it out of the box.That is NOT plagiarism. We would NEVER see a model if the one we built , box stock was considered in that vein. I feel that building a model is a creative art form. I learned by trying to duplicate the plane on the box.So , I don,t believe that is plagiarism.  tankerbuilder

Kugai

 

Manstein's revenge:

 

Actually, I have successfully sued on three separate occassions people who have plagiarized my models/dios/figures...

 

 

I definitely could understand if they had the model itself ( a commission job you'd sold them ) or pics of something you did and claimed them as their own work, but you're not talking about cases of someone making their own based on what theyd seen you do, are you?

 I personally find some of the best reference is seeing how someone else built it. 

Often, when trying to figure out how to scratch some detail or recreate some weathering , etc., it can be very helpful to see it done "in scale" by someone else. Gives me a better idea of what to do myself. Often bettering my own skills. 

If that's plagerism?, oh well.  One of my favorite things about this hobby is the sharing of ideas, techniques, etc. Something I've become even more aware of since joining this forum. It's one of the most enjoyable aspects of the GBs.

Howard

Manstein's revenge

Actually, I have successfully sued on three separate occassions people who have plagiarized my models/dios/figures...

I definitely could understand if they had the model itself ( a commission job you'd sold them ) or pics of something you did and claimed them as their own work, but you're not talking about cases of someone making their own based on what theyd seen you do, are you?

bbrowniii

Hans von Hammer:

p38jl:

cool pics, when did they recover her? Was it long ago? Looks like she took more beating,,cockpit looks like it fell in, and left rudder/fin etc fell off..

 

Yeah, it was a fairly recent recovery, but I'm  not sure when...  After she was discovered, a lot of equipment was stripped from  her, and a lot more people went out there to check it out, with the subsequent "Souvenier hunters" tearing parts off her, illegaly (The Libyan Government, in a RARE display of cooperation with the US and the USAF) deemed her a grave-site to try and protect her, but it didn't work)... They recovered her to save what was left.. I don't know what the plans are for the rest of the recovery, if she's going to go to DC and the Smithsinian, USAF Museum, or what..

 

It was 1994 that the Libyans recovered her remains and moved them to Tobruk.  Not sure what has happened since....

 

Wirraway

Which got me thinking, if modelling is an art form, as most of us consider it to be, why is it modellers never get antsy about someone else copying their work.  You can bet that if it was a painting, essay or piece of music, the original author would be screaming blue murder.

The vi, V, I, V (6m,4,1,5) chord pattern is behind the choruses of each one of these hit songs, albeit in different keys:

San Francisco--Scott McKenzie

Peace of Mind--Boston

Save Tonight--Eagle Eye Cherry

It's My Life--Bon Jovi

Misunderstood--Bon Jovi

Complicated--Avril LaVigne

Why Can't I Breathe--Liz Phair

....and countless other hit songs and never-heard-of tunes & songs as well. The key thing here is "interpretation".

I have to admit--if I saw someone doing a rusted-up Chevy Nomad in a field with bunnies running around it, my first thought would be..."Hmmm?!" But then I would recognize the influence, and be flattered by the interpretation of it.

I don;t think you'd be "plagiarizing" at all if you built the same diorama. After all, it's not like there was one sole Field Kitchen ever fielded in WWII in the German Army. Change a detail here or there, maybe use a different camo scheme or layout of the tools or soldiers in the scene. That's your "interpretation". And you have every creative, legal, and moral right to it.

Hans von Hammer

p38jl:

cool pics, when did they recover her? Was it long ago? Looks like she took more beating,,cockpit looks like it fell in, and left rudder/fin etc fell off..

 

Yeah, it was a fairly recent recovery, but I'm  not sure when...  After she was discovered, a lot of equipment was stripped from  her, and a lot more people went out there to check it out, with the subsequent "Souvenier hunters" tearing parts off her, illegaly (The Libyan Government, in a RARE display of cooperation with the US and the USAF) deemed her a grave-site to try and protect her, but it didn't work)... They recovered her to save what was left.. I don't know what the plans are for the rest of the recovery, if she's going to go to DC and the Smithsinian, USAF Museum, or what..

It was 1994 that the Libyans recovered her remains and moved them to Tobruk.  Not sure what has happened since....

p38jl

cool pics, when did they recover her? Was it long ago? Looks like she took more beating,,cockpit looks like it fell in, and left rudder/fin etc fell off..

Yeah, it was a fairly recent recovery, but I'm  not sure when...  After she was discovered, a lot of equipment was stripped from  her, and a lot more people went out there to check it out, with the subsequent "Souvenier hunters" tearing parts off her, illegaly (The Libyan Government, in a RARE display of cooperation with the US and the USAF) deemed her a grave-site to try and protect her, but it didn't work)... They recovered her to save what was left.. I don't know what the plans are for the rest of the recovery, if she's going to go to DC and the Smithsinian, USAF Museum, or what..

bondoman

Do any of you guys remember a TV movie from probably the late sixties based on this story, loosely?  It starts with a crash in the desert, and the crew playing baseball next to the wreck.

When I started this post, of course I was searching on Wiki and IMDB and I've since found "Sole Survivor" from 1970. It stuck with me, and I guess a bunch of people.

Yeah, I watched it a couple times.. "Sole Survivor" was indeed the name of the movie, about a B-25 crew.  The crew was killed, except the bombardier (played by William Shatner), who bailed out of the plane, and thusly was the "sole survivor".. The plane's name was "Home Run".  The pilot had decided early on that they would play basesball every day until they were rescued.  (Apparently, 15th AF B-25s were equipped with bats, gloves, and baseball as part of the crew's life suport gear)

The rest of the crew rode it down, and subsequently died, but they didn't know they were dead, and were ghosts...When they were discovered, some 15 years after the crash, it was at that point they realized that they were dead, because no one could see them, and Shatner, who had stayed in the service and was now a Colonel in the USAF, was then "haunted" by them and went insane, probably because of "Survivor's Guilt" plus the ghosts really messed with him, as they were visible to Shatner now... (They were mad because he'd abandoned the aircraft and lived, see) 

SPOILER ALERT

 It wasn't until their bodies were found that the ghosts "disappeared" into the hereafter, however one crewmember's body was never found, and his ghost was left alone in the desert, forever tied to "Home Run"... Didn't even have anyone to play catch with..

Do any of you guys remember a TV movie from probably the late sixties based on this story, loosely?  It starts with a crash in the desert, and the crew playing baseball next to the wreck.

When I started this post, of course I was searching on Wiki and IMDB and I've since found "Sole Survivor" from 1970. It stuck with me, and I guess a bunch of people.

cool pics, when did they recover her? Was it long ago? Looks like she took more beating,,cockpit looks like it fell in, and left rudder/fin etc fell off..

Manny, what did u spend the rewards on ??

Hans,, cool,, cant wait

Aerial shot of the Lady shortly after discovery:

Recent photos of her, as recovery operations begin:

Finally, the Lady  has RTB'd...

I found a bunch of pics of the Lady, circa 1990s.. She's no longer in the Libyan Desert, she's been recovered and moved to an airport..  I'l get some pics up later, Photobucket is hatin' me right now...

Actually, I have successfully sued on three separate occassions people who have plagiarized my models/dios/figures...

I had been mentally visualising a german firld workshop set up in the back of a Maultier for some time.  When I went on to Armorama, I found one set up just as I had imagined it.  Benches in same place, ditto welding gear and tools, oil drum etc.  Now I feel I'm copying this guys work if I stick to my original plan.

Which got me thinking, if modelling is an art form, as most of us consider it to be, why is it modellers never get antsy about someone else copying their work.  You can bet that if it was a painting, essay or piece of music, the original author would be screaming blue murder.  Is it just because were a bit more laid back, or is it just impossible to police ?

And I'm talking specifically about dioramas here.  Obviously wit thousands of people buying and building the same kit worldwide, theres mucho duplication.  I'm talking more about the layout and structure of dioramas.

Hans von Hammer

This's the only one I know of:

That is a "back of the mind" future possible project I've thought of doing. 

Lady Be Good as she appears in the pic. Although, after building Witchcraft , I'm not quite ready to tackle another Revellogram Lib interior.

coool...

This's the only one I know of:

Hans von Hammer

The last two would look the same... The "Lady" crew bailed out and she went on, unmanned..

I know that,, I was more thinking she would not be so dusty, and dingy.. cleaner, but debris from the crash..glass would still be clear, just cracked or broken from the crash.. etc.. stuff like that..

BTW.. are there pics of her before the crash.. ? I don't remember seeing any ???.. IMBW...

The last two would look the same... The "Lady" crew bailed out and she went on, unmanned..

Hans von Hammer

Yeah... Especially with that aircraft, there aren't many different ways to portray it; just  before discovery, during , or after... That's it... After she was found, well.. Most of her equipment was stripped, and during, well.. It'd take away that forlorn, desolate feeling..

Before, it'd be just another B-24... Nothing at all "special" about it...

you know what would be coooll.....

a 3 way build... as she's on the runway,,before take off on the mission

                               just after she's crashed...

                                 and the forlorn look as above..

hummmmmm.......

Yeah... Especially with that aircraft, there aren't many different ways to portray it; just  before discovery, during , or after... That's it... After she was found, well.. Most of her equipment was stripped, and during, well.. It'd take away that forlorn, desolate feeling..

Before, it'd be just another B-24... Nothing at all "special" about it...

always wanted to "copy" Shep's dio of the "Lady Be Good"... such a great story, and dio,,,

When Monogram was having Shep Paine build his stunning dioramas for them back in the 70's, it was right in the tipsheet  that you could "try to recreate the scene here"...

Yet another aspect to it is that you're not plagerising someone's work... You're simply making a 1/1 scale model of their model...

I think another thing beyond the hobby vs. profession point is that it's REALLY HARD to plagiarize a diorama, camo scheme, etc. 

Plagiarizing a paper is as easy as cutting and pasting these days. Modeling...takes effort and know-how. So somebody's obviously doing it for love of the subject, not to snag a quick buck. Hard to get angry about that.

In art the ultimate insult is to copy someone else's work and claim it as your own. In modeling that same procedure tends to say to the original "i think your work is so awesome i copied it". Also there are only so many ways you can paint a spitfire

Off hand, I'd say we don't have many of those kinds of complaints because...

1) Not many of us are in it for the money, so it's not like we're taking even a slight financial loss if someone copies our work.

2) I haven't heard of too many people being stingy with their "trade secrets" that went into a given build, so an "industrial espionage" aspect would be out.

3) Because we tend to appreciate the time and work that go into a project, most of the model builders I know would respond with either with calm satisfaction ( okay, some of us might give in to our lesser nature and have a chuckle ) that their "original" version was better, or at least begrudgingly admire the skills involved in a copy that was done better.

I thnk I agree with Jon, and not just because he spells his name right.

I like to remember that there is nothing new under the sun. Pretty much everything has been done or at least thought of by many different people at one time or another, so I'm not surprised at all when I see two very similar works. I think it is interesting to compare the two and find the sublte differences.

The reason we probably don't read about plagiarism much is because it would apply most aptly to the professional model builder, of which there are relatively few. If more folks started trying to sell their work or make some cash from another's ideas, then there might be an increase in those claims.

I think what bugs most modelers, both professional and ordinary hobbyist, is someone online posting a picture of another's model and trying to pass it off as their own or not giving proper credit.