model pricing

We ought to start a letter writing campaign to get Krylon's manufacturer to list it's FS numbers. lol

Hans von Hammer

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Thanks for the info Hans.  I wonder if they make a gloss OD...? 

 

 

Don't quote me on this until I check my rattle-can supply, but I think it's Krylon "Moss" that's a good match for OD, or it maight have been for an RAF shade of Dark Green, can't remember... It's a semi-gloss, as is the Krylon "Earth", which doubles for another RAF color.  Semi-gloss is quite adequate for decaling...

Hope I helped a little... Just trying to save a few bucks (ok, a LOT), so I tend to experiment with a lot of different stuff.. That's why God makes Paint Hulks, lol...

Sparrowhyperion

Thanks for the info Hans.  I wonder if they make a gloss OD...? 

Don't quote me on this until I check my rattle-can supply, but I think it's Krylon "Moss" that's a good match for OD, or it maight have been for an RAF shade of Dark Green, can't remember... It's a semi-gloss, as is the Krylon "Earth", which doubles for another RAF color.  Semi-gloss is quite adequate for decaling...

Hope I helped a little... Just trying to save a few bucks (ok, a LOT), so I tend to experiment with a lot of different stuff.. That's why God makes Paint Hulks, lol...

Definitely a big thanks to Hans for the paint news coverage.

Thanks for the info Hans.  I wonder if they make a gloss OD...?  Lol  it would have saved me smelling nasty glosscoat fumes glosscoating my F9F and 2 P39s last night.  I hate laquer smell. lol

Interesting and useful information, HVH. In my MRR days I used to use quite a bit of strange brews- house paint, poster paint, felt tips and the like. I mass produced a series of five big common standard Southern Pacific stations and had a gallon of yellow house paint mixed that was just the right color. Lasted me a while, in fact I still have some but it's shot.

I have decided tho that for models, it's too big a risk. Where I used to toss together a 1/32 P-40 in an afternoon, I now spend a month of evenings on a 1/72 model. Nothing ruins my day like a paint failure. So for me, I tend to get all new paint for an important model, a part of the cost of the kit. I guess building in 1/72 makes a difference. Size does make a difference in $$$, although it didn't in trains.

I'm always leery about using auto thinners on plastic.  Some of them are very aggressive and I don't want to melt down something I put like 40 hours work into.

Don't worry about ENAMEL reducers (the trade-name for enamel thinner)... They won't attack the styrene.. It's LAQUER that will attack the styrene, and agressively.. However, laquers CAN be used on plastic models over an enamel-based primer, but it's not something I'd recommend anyone try without practice on several models that they don't care about... Any overspray on un-primed styrene will casue it to soften.. Best just to forget about using automotive laquers..  I used them years ago when I was building cars, simply because the color selection huge, and I was in an auto-body repair course and the primer & paint was "free"... I melted a few car bodies before I got the application process down right..

If you do pick up a laquer by accident though, you'll know immediately that you did as soon as you add it to your enamel paint.. The paint will almost instantly curdle in the mixing jar, so it'll never hit the model through your airbrush....

But I don't see a lot of enamel paints in local craft shops

Nope, and you won't.. However, some acrylics airbrush beautifully when reduced properly, and dry dead-flat... Which isn't always a good thing.. If you apply your base colors witha gloss paint, you can skip the clear gloss step for decaling... Just let the paint cure and start applying them... Then continue the weathering process with your washes, then flats, then dry-brush/pastels, etc.... Whatever you do..

Oils can be reduced as well as enamels, and applied with an airbrush, too... Tempera paints from the craft-stores make excellent sludge-washes, as well as allowing you take off any mistakes with a water-dampened paper towel... I use tempera paints for washes and stains almost exclusively, and dry tempera makes an excellent weathering powder... All you need in tempera paints is the basics-ie; Red, Blue, Yellow, White, and Black... With the primary colors, and the B & W aint, you make any shade you need if you're familiar with the Color Wheel, and can mix the primaries into second and tertiary colors, in which you'll find your browns and other "earth" tones...
 Here's a link to the google page for the color wheel..
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=tertiary+colors&aq=2&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=tertiary&oi=image_result_group&sa=X

I know it all sounds kinda tedious, but it's one way you can take back some control over how much you pay for paint...

Thanks for the info.  I'll see if I can find it locally to try it out.

DoogsATX

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

I suppose I could try some auto thinners for enamel.  But I don't see a lot of enamel paints in local craft shops and I only use acrylics for washes and other weathering/detailing effects.  I'm always leery about using auto thinners on plastic.  Some of them are very aggressive and I don't want to melt down something I put like 40 hours work into.  I suppose I could pick up a few kinds and test them on some different plastics to see the results.

 

 

 

 

I haven't tried it, and it doesn't harm cured enamels that I've been able to tell, but you may want to try Mona Lisa Odorless Paint Thinner or similar art thinner to thin enamels. 

It's not as cheap as the hardware or auto store stuff, but it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than Testors/Tamiya/Gunze thinners.

Sparrowhyperion

I suppose I could try some auto thinners for enamel.  But I don't see a lot of enamel paints in local craft shops and I only use acrylics for washes and other weathering/detailing effects.  I'm always leery about using auto thinners on plastic.  Some of them are very aggressive and I don't want to melt down something I put like 40 hours work into.  I suppose I could pick up a few kinds and test them on some different plastics to see the results.

 

 

I haven't tried it, and it doesn't harm cured enamels that I've been able to tell, but you may want to try Mona Lisa Odorless Paint Thinner or similar art thinner to thin enamels. 

It's not as cheap as the hardware or auto store stuff, but it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than Testors/Tamiya/Gunze thinners.

I suppose I could try some auto thinners for enamel.  But I don't see a lot of enamel paints in local craft shops and I only use acrylics for washes and other weathering/detailing effects.  I'm always leery about using auto thinners on plastic.  Some of them are very aggressive and I don't want to melt down something I put like 40 hours work into.  I suppose I could pick up a few kinds and test them on some different plastics to see the results.

Hans von Hammer

Quit buying "Model Brand" thinners, Sparrow... You can get automotive-quality laquer thinners and enamel reducers at auto parts stores much cheaper per ounce than you can from a hobby shop...

Same with paints... Take your color chips up to the arts & crafts aisles and compare them to the paints there... .99 cents to 2.00 for three-ounce bottles of acrylics...  All you gotta do is get past the goofy "chick-names" they put on the bottles, like "Mushroom" and "Moss", and you'll have Khaki Drab and Olive Drab...

I agree with the price of paint it is out of control I will go buy crylon or equal brand for the primer coat. And who is going to know if I dont use the color the model called for . One of the colors on the instructions called for black green well I did not have that color but I did have dark green. So I used it now it was on the wheels  of a stuka the wheels are half covered and the rear wheel was so small you could not tell. Or for example the cockpit called for black green will didnot have it so I used flat black now I do not all ways do this but if I have the color and it's close then I will use it.

Yes, I agree, that was my failed attempt at sarcasm.  Hard to do on a computer.  This business (like many) seems to be seeing kit maker consolidation and termination, with that comes fewer players and higher prices, not to mention increased input costs.

Sparrowhyperion

Yes they have..  There is no reason for this recent increase.  No justification.  If I am now having to pay $30 for a kit that less than 6 months ago I could find for $10 or so, then YES the prices have gone up quite a bit.  I realize that most folks aren't living on less than $1k a month so it doesn't seem like as much I would imagine.  But for some of, we are slowly but surely being priced right out of model building.  I can't afford to pay $10 or more for a can of Testors Thinner.  Paint at $5 for a half ounce bottle which might last 2 kits if airbrushed or less if the kit is large.  And don't even get me started on resin.  $30 or so for six small cast resin pieces which aren't even properly cut off their cast blocks, and together make up two engine exhausts....

Yes, they have gone up a LOT.

 

Rich

 

Reasoned:

Come on guys, model prices haven't gone up that much.  We only have a 3.2% inflation rate, and oil... well who needs that anyway?  I mean, they can't possibly use it in styrene.  

 

Arrg... Should read, "Chick names", lol...

Hans von Hammer

Quit buying "Model Brand" thinners, Sparrow... You can get automotive-quality laquer thinners and enamel reducers at auto parts stores much cheaper per ounce than you can from a hobby shop...

Same with paints... Take your color chips up to the arts & crafts aisles and compare them to the paints there... .99 cents to 2.00 for three-ounce bottles of acrylics...  All you gotta do is get past the goofy "chick-nemaes" they put on the bottles, like "Mushroom" and "Moss", and you'll have Khaki Drab and Olive Drab...

more good tips !

Quit buying "Model Brand" thinners, Sparrow... You can get automotive-quality laquer thinners and enamel reducers at auto parts stores much cheaper per ounce than you can from a hobby shop...

Same with paints... Take your color chips up to the arts & crafts aisles and compare them to the paints there... .99 cents to 2.00 for three-ounce bottles of acrylics...  All you gotta do is get past the goofy "chick-names" they put on the bottles, like "Mushroom" and "Moss", and you'll have Khaki Drab and Olive Drab...

Yes they have..  There is no reason for this recent increase.  No justification.  If I am now having to pay $30 for a kit that less than 6 months ago I could find for $10 or so, then YES the prices have gone up quite a bit.  I realize that most folks aren't living on less than $1k a month so it doesn't seem like as much I would imagine.  But for some of, we are slowly but surely being priced right out of model building.  I can't afford to pay $10 or more for a can of Testors Thinner.  Paint at $5 for a half ounce bottle which might last 2 kits if airbrushed or less if the kit is large.  And don't even get me started on resin.  $30 or so for six small cast resin pieces which aren't even properly cut off their cast blocks, and together make up two engine exhausts....

Yes, they have gone up a LOT.

Rich

Reasoned

Come on guys, model prices haven't gone up that much.  We only have a 3.2% inflation rate, and oil... well who needs that anyway?  I mean, they can't possibly use it in styrene.  

Come on guys, model prices haven't gone up that much.  We only have a 3.2% inflation rate, and oil... well who needs that anyway?  I mean, they can't possibly use it in styrene.  

Hans von Hammer

 

You can go out and buy the mask and PE separately for just about all the Weekend Editions, but you miss out on the marking options and excellent decal sheets Eduard ships with their Profi-pack boxings.

 

That's a thing where we differ greatly, Doogs, ol' buddy... I could no more go out and buy a pre-cut masks for a kit than I could a resin cockpit... I learned how to mask canopies and windscreens about 30 years ago, and see no reason spend money on 'em...

Sorry, I meant you in the general sense, not specifically you.

Case in point - the Eduard Yak-3 Weekend Edition. I don't think it's a kit that justifies either a mask (despite my love of masks) or PE (if you want to dress up that cockpit, we're talking probably a total teardown...PE would be lipstick on a pig). But the decal sheet was just awful. 

I guess we differ on decals, too - I do like to build actual, historical aircraft. For me, researching the history of the plane, its pilot and crew and unit, that's a big part of the enjoyment for me. But regardless - the kit decals were crap. At the time I didn't have much of a stock of Soviet markings, so I had to go out and run down a Yak-3. I found precisely one, buried in a sheet with a bunch of Yak-7s and -9s. About a month after I finished that, Eduard released or rereleased or whatever the Yak-3 Profi-pack with five gorgeous marking options.

I like the ability, if somebody were so inclined, they could purchase the whole hog, or the bare bones, or maybe the bare bones and then just the decal sheet. Or just the mask.

Our one Hobby Lobby has pretty much nothing other than a couple of air brushes and some floquil paint.  No kits, not even glue.  HobbyTownUSA is literally the only game in town locally.  I wish the heck that I was back on the East Coast.   At least out there I knew of at least 8 places in Boston and a couple of dozen in the surrounding area, less than a half hour away by the MBTA (subway and buses). But freakin Toledo is dying and all of the good stores are the first to go it seems.

Vacuforming is a bit out of my league I'm afraid.  I usually check out SPrue Bros, and Hannants in the UK.  I am currently waiting to see if Sprue Bros get's in any of the FGR.2 zoom PE kits for cockpit details.

I have one of the older multi speed corded Dremel tools which I wouldn't give up for anything.  It's about 10-11 years old and you just can't find one as well built anymore.  I originally bought it to use for cutting holes in steel computer cases.  But it's great for modeling.  I wish I could find some of the attachments for it like the router attachment or the drill press stand for it. 

I know about searching eBay. lol  I spend a lot of time trawling for good deals in the modeling and other sections.  I go for a lot of open box and bagged kits.  I seldom will buy a brand new kit unless it's something I can't find used and the price is good.  I have a very limited amount to spend per month, so i really have to bargain hunt.

Rich

Hans von Hammer

 

 

That's why I buy at Hobby Lobby... The Hobbytown was in the same strip mall as Hobby Lobby, but they went the way of the dodo...

The only alternative is to use the on-line stores and buy their "closeout sale" stuff and when doing so, buy enough to get the "Free Shipping"... I've yet to ever spend THAT much though, except for tools.. Which brings me to another point... I have lots of tools like Dremels and a lathe, and other power tools for modeling, a  Mattel vacuformer, because I invested in them, rather than buying the after-market parts for every kit that comes down the pipe...  They eventually pay for themselves, and then you can really turn some precision parts for a few cents per... Plus, you can three times the mistakes in half the time..

Heck, an entire Dremel starter set, with motor-tool and  a dozen or so cutting bits, cut-off wheels, sanding drums, and such, can be had for less than the price of Tamiya's Betty... A scratch-built rheostat speed control can be built for about 11.00, and you're set there...

As for Ebay prices, you gotta really search the place for deals nowadays, and you gotta make sure you ain't buying from a "store"... Too many commercial outlets and hobby shops sell there, and they're no bargain... Wish Ebay would dis-allow commercial sellers...

 

You can go out and buy the mask and PE separately for just about all the Weekend Editions, but you miss out on the marking options and excellent decal sheets Eduard ships with their Profi-pack boxings.

That's a thing where we differ greatly, Doogs, ol' buddy... I could no more go out and buy a pre-cut masks for a kit than I could a resin cockpit... I learned how to mask canopies and windscreens about 30 years ago, and see no reason spend money on 'em... In fact, my canopy/windscreens are 90% freehanded or they're masked only in certain spots for the first pass, then in another for the second pass... I don't have transparent things on the models when they get their base-coats of paint and clears, even if I have to shim and sand in some areas to make it fit..  That's what "Touch-up" painting is for, lol... (windows that have to be inserted from inide, I generally leave off and then, after painting, use Micro's "Krystal Klear"... )

As for decals, well, I tend to go for spurious aircraft markings anway, since the Rivet Counters can't tell me I did it "wrong" then... Only thing I keep "accurate" is the theater markings and camouflage schemes... Occasionally, I'll make one with accurate Group and Squadron markings, but put on a fake aircraft letter and S/N... Then nose-art options are infinite, since there's no prototype to compare it with.. I tend to put my name or names of friends on the canopy rails instead too...
As for buying P/E, I don't do that either... I use what comes with other kits more ofen than not.. Like the ProModeler B-17 and B-24D... Most of their P/E for the cockpits are unviewable once the "glass" is in, so the buckles and slides go into single-seat open canopy builds... 

Over the years, I've collected gobs of national insignia decals, mostly RAF, USAAF/USN, and German, so buying AM decal sheets these days is rather a "once in a while" thing... Since they depict specific aircraft, they really aren't my thing, but that's just me.. 

I don't buy the Balkenkruez for German aircraft often, nor Hinomaru for Jap aircraft at all, since a squirt of spray paint and frisket-paper circles and crosses is all one needs for those guys.. And what better way make a marking look "painted on" than painting it on? Could use a sheet or two of Hakenkruez in various scales though...

 Red Star stencils are pretty easy to make too.. As are the geometric shapes for USAAF groups... It all comes down to what you feel like doing, I reckon.. But stencils are my favorite way to go with many national markings, except for the more complicted shapes, like the US star & bar... Plus, I only have to make one in most cases... For other markings, like custom names on canopies and nose-art, well.. That's why God made decal paper and printers, lol...

Bottom line is that, for me at least, to make as much stuff myself as I can, with what I have n-hand or scrounge... That's "Gizmology 101"...

And for the guys who rationalize with the "more bang for the buck" thing, you'd THINK that they'd be the ones doing that as well, since everything like that takes more time... And that's what they're after, isn't it? Spending as much time as they can on the model to get the most "fun" outta the dollar?

Sparrow:

I have noticed a dramatic increase in kit prices in the last 3-6 months.  Things like Monogram F4 kits going for over $30 on eBay  and that's not including shipping.  The hobby store prices are even worse.  The prices at our local (and only) hobby shop, Hobbytown USA have gotten to the point where I just can't afford any of their kits.

That's why I buy at Hobby Lobby... The Hobbytown was in the same strip mall as Hobby Lobby, but they went the way of the dodo...

The only alternative is to use the on-line stores and buy their "closeout sale" stuff and when doing so, buy enough to get the "Free Shipping"... I've yet to ever spend THAT much though, except for tools.. Which brings me to another point... I have lots of tools like Dremels and a lathe, and other power tools for modeling, a  Mattel vacuformer, because I invested in them, rather than buying the after-market parts for every kit that comes down the pipe...  They eventually pay for themselves, and then you can really turn some precision parts for a few cents per... Plus, you can three times the mistakes in half the time..

Heck, an entire Dremel starter set, with motor-tool and  a dozen or so cutting bits, cut-off wheels, sanding drums, and such, can be had for less than the price of Tamiya's Betty... A scratch-built rheostat speed control can be built for about 11.00, and you're set there...

As for Ebay prices, you gotta really search the place for deals nowadays, and you gotta make sure you ain't buying from a "store"... Too many commercial outlets and hobby shops sell there, and they're no bargain... Wish Ebay would dis-allow commercial sellers...

Just make sure you have good optical insurance.  I can't even see well enough to do those small scale kits anymore.

plumline

 Thanks guys for the comments. I will start building the 1/72 scale models seems they have a lot more to pick from anyway. 

 Thanks guys for the comments. I will start building the 1/72 scale models seems they have a lot more to pick from anyway. 

Sparrowhyperion

 The AM stuff probably came to about three times what the kit cost.  I just can't see how the market can sustain these prices.

Rich

 

It all depends upon what the Wiz Kids in DC do.

If Joe Six-Pack can't afford price increases for food, heat, petrol, (and beer )  then the hobby will lose an increasing number of customers.

i don't know what the breaking point would be to keep the plastic model kit industry alive..

Hans, I couldn't agree more with you on just about every point you made.  I have noticed a dramatic increase in kit prices in the last 3-6 months.  Things like Monogram F4 kits going for over $30 on eBay  and that's not including shipping.  The hobby store prices are even worse.  The prices at our local (and only) hobby shop, Hobbytown USA have gotten to the point where I just can't afford any of their kits.  Even paint and supplies are getting even more out of hand.  If the prices from my normal eBay sellers get much higher, I am probably going to be priced right back out of the hobby. 

I actually saw a lindberg Cutlass (the plane not the car) gor for $49 and $12 to ship a few days ago.  We are talking lindberg here.  Not even a really good brand like Monogram or Academy.  That's just ridiculous...  Manufacturers, distributors and retailers are soon going to find thta they have priced themselves right out of business. 

It really ticks me off because my Daughter Marissa is just getting into the hobby, and she may not even be able to stay in it despite how much she likes it. 

I only use AM parts ad detailing when it is a special build and the resin and/or PE is inexpensive.  Like The F4 build I am doing for Berny.  Without Dom helping on the financial end on that one, it probably would have never been possible to do it.  It has a lot of Eduard PE, Aires Engine cans and seats, KMC Resin Intakes, we got two sets of Hasegawa weapons and i picked up an ESCI one for it as well.  The AM stuff probably came to about three times what the kit cost.  I just can't see how the market can sustain these prices.

Rich

Hans von Hammer

 

plumline:

 

Ok  Hans what is your take on this subject I am paying for the name is that right.

 

 

I'm SOooo gald you asked that, lol...

Sure, you pay for the name, lol..  That's certainly worth about nothing, since EVERY kit manufacturer has sold "Monday kits"... Kits that that otherwise may be pretty good, but the copy YOU got was made and QC'd after a wild weekend or spent the weekend in a truck parked in 100-degree heat and on Monday, it's got missing/broken/warped parts... But you don't know that until you crack it open...

 

Been wanting to do a good kit price-rant for years, but held back (occasionally  throwing a few barbs out in the hopes that some manufacturer reads here) for the most part... First observastion is that many kits have gone up considerably in the past ten years, not so much because of normal inflation, but because they've been given a face-lift here& there, a new decal sheet or two, or had some panel lines added or changed, or the manufacturer threw a fret of photo-etch and a new instruction sheet with some grainy B & W pictures of the prototype and christened it "High-Tech"...

Others have seen the success of a couple of kits, and decided, hey, let's throw in another sprue of five or six parts to allow the builder a way to make different variant, or add a metal gun barrel and we'll call it "New Kit Release"...  Armor modelers have gotten sucked into this "metal gun-barrel" thing so far that it's almost pathetic... Same thing with the tracks... The "new" standard is to have all link & length, or indy-link tracks sor modelers no longer have to worry about " track-sag" (instead of simply using a dowel or two and some CA, or thread to tie them down) and are willing to pay an extra 30.00 per kit for that crap...  Yet, they can't include some figures... That gimmick's how they get you to buy their "crew-figures"... Hasegawa is famous for crap like that, forcing a modeler to buy an entire weapons kit for 20-25.00 if he wants his A-10 or F-4 "bombed up"...

I also hear things like "Contest-Quality" kits... That's a BS marker right there... Contest winning kits are from the skill-sets of the modeler, not the model... Judges don't (or shouldn't) care about things like whether the cockpit is loaded with greeblies or built SOB with some stretched sprue and masking tape harnesses, and they REALLY shouldn't care if that's a Lindberg (like 'em) JN4D or a Tamigawa one....  They should only focus on the build itself, and the modeler's skills, not whether a kit has engraved panel lines (which are more often than not, WAY outta scale) or raised ones.  

Manufacturers' should never come into play...  And many times they don't, but it happens more than I'd like..... I've seen numerous Monogram kits take the Gold away from Dragon or Tamiya kits, much to the "high-end kit-builders' astonishment...  I've butted heads with other judges over this many times in the past, since I deem "Scope of Effort" quite important in judging a kit, and when a guy scratch-builds (well, I might add) a cockpit for a Monogram Spitfire or HAWK P-51, that's worth way more points than the guy who went out and bought a replacement cockpit for it, or the guy that, all other things being equal, modifies his figures for his diorama rather than the guys who build them SOB and design a diorama arond the figures, rather than making the figures fit the diorama.. (There are exceptions, though.. Von Manstein, for instance, is a master when it comes to telling stories with stock figures)... However, I digress...

I saw a letter in a recent FSM in which a reader asks about kit prices.. FSM came back with a rationalization of how much "fun" per-hour you get with a high-dollar kit vs a round of golf or something equally un-related to the hobby... Phooey... We're modelers, not golfers...  A round of golf for me would be a once a year thing, if that... I buy way more models per year than that...  Frankly, if a kit costs more than a couple hours pay, fergit it... Plus, I don't keep them forever... I've got a few that're two-years old (built)... The rest last maybe six months to a year before I get sick of looking at them and tear them down...  I've built well over 2000 kits in my lifetime, and I've never had more than 30 or 40 on display...  Usually less, since they're all in dioramas..

When a kit costs more than a week's worth of groceries for me the wife, that's wrong...  There're are "Skill Level Two" kit (made for those 12 years of age & Up) that cost 50-70 dollars... Phooey.. I ain't paying it... 

 Bottom line for me is that I won't pay any amount for a kit that I'm not willing to let get eaten by the cat...   We, as a group, need to stop rationalizing away the stupid prices, and take back control... The kit manufacturers seem to listen when when people want MORE of something... Why wouldn't they listen when we want LESS?

Eduard has something right with their "Weekend Edition" kits... Let the guys that want all the P/E and resin Greeblies in the kits pay for them, and those of us who can scratch-build 'em (and sand a plastic gun-barrel without leaving a seam and flat spot) buy the cheaper kits... 

You guys can rationlize and make excuses for the manufacturers all you want, but, IMHO, you're still getting ripped off... Plus, you aren't exactly increasing your skill-sets when you're letting someone else make all the detail parts...  The skill involved in gluing a P/E part in lieu of a stritched sprue part you made yourself is nil... The skill-increase comes from making the part...

That's my take on it...  It ain't gonna matter, and I'm still gonna keep building Monogram, HAWK, Revell, and Lindberg kits, my "after-market" bill will still be around a buck, and I'm still gonna walk away with the gold, lol... I done it before, lol...  Watch out for Fermis too... He brings in that Lindberg PT-17of his, and the 1/48th biplane guys will be SOL, lol... Unless I bring in my Glencoe J2F Duck, lol...

 

 

 

Hans von Hammer

Eduard has something right with their "Weekend Edition" kits... Let the guys that want all the P/E and resin Greeblies in the kits pay for them, and those of us who can scratch-build 'em (and sand a plastic gun-barrel without leaving a seam and flat spot) buy the cheaper kits... 

I'm leaving my ten-foot pole in the corner, but I will agree that Eduard is definitely on to something with the Weekend/Profi-Pack/Royal Class packaging.

Just one thing. You can go out and buy the mask and PE separately for just about all the Weekend Editions, but you miss out on the marking options and excellent decal sheets Eduard ships with their Profi-pack boxings. I really, really wish they'd make those suckers a la carte, as well, especially for more obscure subjects with very little aftermarket support. I mean, a Hellcat or Fw 190 is one thing, but aftermarket sheets for the Yak-3? Nightmare.

plumline

Ok  Hans what is your take on this subject I am paying for the name is that right.

I'm SOooo gald you asked that, lol...

Sure, you pay for the name, lol..  That's certainly worth about nothing, since EVERY kit manufacturer has sold "Monday kits"... Kits that that otherwise may be pretty good, but the copy YOU got was made and QC'd after a wild weekend or spent the weekend in a truck parked in 100-degree heat and on Monday, it's got missing/broken/warped parts... But you don't know that until you crack it open...

Been wanting to do a good kit price-rant for years, but held back (occasionally  throwing a few barbs out in the hopes that some manufacturer reads here) for the most part... First observastion is that many kits have gone up considerably in the past ten years, not so much because of normal inflation, but because they've been given a face-lift here& there, a new decal sheet or two, or had some panel lines added or changed, or the manufacturer threw a fret of photo-etch and a new instruction sheet with some grainy B & W pictures of the prototype and christened it "High-Tech"...

Others have seen the success of a couple of kits, and decided, hey, let's throw in another sprue of five or six parts to allow the builder a way to make different variant, or add a metal gun barrel and we'll call it "New Kit Release"...  Armor modelers have gotten sucked into this "metal gun-barrel" thing so far that it's almost pathetic... Same thing with the tracks... The "new" standard is to have all link & length, or indy-link tracks sor modelers no longer have to worry about " track-sag" (instead of simply using a dowel or two and some CA, or thread to tie them down) and are willing to pay an extra 30.00 per kit for that crap...  Yet, they can't include some figures... That gimmick's how they get you to buy their "crew-figures"... Hasegawa is famous for crap like that, forcing a modeler to buy an entire weapons kit for 20-25.00 if he wants his A-10 or F-4 "bombed up"...

I also hear things like "Contest-Quality" kits... That's a BS marker right there... Contest winning kits are from the skill-sets of the modeler, not the model... Judges don't (or shouldn't) care about things like whether the cockpit is loaded with greeblies or built SOB with some stretched sprue and masking tape harnesses, and they REALLY shouldn't care if that's a Lindberg (like 'em) JN4D or a Tamigawa one....  They should only focus on the build itself, and the modeler's skills, not whether a kit has engraved panel lines (which are more often than not, WAY outta scale) or raised ones.  

Manufacturers' should never come into play...  And many times they don't, but it happens more than I'd like..... I've seen numerous Monogram kits take the Gold away from Dragon or Tamiya kits, much to the "high-end kit-builders' astonishment...  I've butted heads with other judges over this many times in the past, since I deem "Scope of Effort" quite important in judging a kit, and when a guy scratch-builds (well, I might add) a cockpit for a Monogram Spitfire or HAWK P-51, that's worth way more points than the guy who went out and bought a replacement cockpit for it, or the guy that, all other things being equal, modifies his figures for his diorama rather than the guys who build them SOB and design a diorama arond the figures, rather than making the figures fit the diorama.. (There are exceptions, though.. Von Manstein, for instance, is a master when it comes to telling stories with stock figures)... However, I digress...

I saw a letter in a recent FSM in which a reader asks about kit prices.. FSM came back with a rationalization of how much "fun" per-hour you get with a high-dollar kit vs a round of golf or something equally un-related to the hobby... Phooey... We're modelers, not golfers...  A round of golf for me would be a once a year thing, if that... I buy way more models per year than that...  Frankly, if a kit costs more than a couple hours pay, fergit it... Plus, I don't keep them forever... I've got a few that're two-years old (built)... The rest last maybe six months to a year before I get sick of looking at them and tear them down...  I've built well over 2000 kits in my lifetime, and I've never had more than 30 or 40 on display...  Usually less, since they're all in dioramas..

When a kit costs more than a week's worth of groceries for me the wife, that's wrong...  There're are "Skill Level Two" kit (made for those 12 years of age & Up) that cost 50-70 dollars... Phooey.. I ain't paying it... 

 Bottom line for me is that I won't pay any amount for a kit that I'm not willing to let get eaten by the cat...   We, as a group, need to stop rationalizing away the stupid prices, and take back control... The kit manufacturers seem to listen when when people want MORE of something... Why wouldn't they listen when we want LESS?

Eduard has something right with their "Weekend Edition" kits... Let the guys that want all the P/E and resin Greeblies in the kits pay for them, and those of us who can scratch-build 'em (and sand a plastic gun-barrel without leaving a seam and flat spot) buy the cheaper kits... 

You guys can rationlize and make excuses for the manufacturers all you want, but, IMHO, you're still getting ripped off... Plus, you aren't exactly increasing your skill-sets when you're letting someone else make all the detail parts...  The skill involved in gluing a P/E part in lieu of a stritched sprue part you made yourself is nil... The skill-increase comes from making the part...

That's my take on it...  It ain't gonna matter, and I'm still gonna keep building Monogram, HAWK, Revell, and Lindberg kits, my "after-market" bill will still be around a buck, and I'm still gonna walk away with the gold, lol... I done it before, lol...  Watch out for Fermis too... He brings in that Lindberg PT-17of his, and the 1/48th biplane guys will be SOL, lol... Unless I bring in my Glencoe J2F Duck, lol...

I think it's a combination of a few different factors.  Aircraft have always been the big favorite for most modelers.  At least according to all of the surveys I have seen over the years, so aircraft have higher demand and the manufacturers can get away with charging more for them.  Additionally, most kits are made overseas now, which raises the price because shipping has increased so much.  More pedestrian kits like Revell/Monogram, Airfix, Lindberg (yuckers), and the like, cost less because they are mostly older kit molds and have already had all of their R&D paid for decades ago.  Hasegawa, Tamyia, Trumpeter are newer molds and cost that much more.  Although I still think they soak you for most of them..

plumline

Hello all, I think this has been talk about before why is it I can go buy a car model for say 25.00 dollars a 1/48 scale and go buy a airplane model the same scale and that model will cost me around 40.00 dollars .  Now let me say the airplane a tamiya or hasegawa I am using for an example.  I believe the car model will have larger parts count then say the tamiya or hasegawa sometimes the car model will have extra parts to make to different versions. To me the car model should cost more.  Is it  the demand or because of the manufacture is overseas.

Ok  Hans what is your take on this subject I am paying for the name is that right.

Manstein's revenge

Because in real life tanks and planes cost more than cars---it translates into scale...

Price by definition is what you are willing to pay.  In other words, all the kits I buy cost less than $ 50.00, that's just my price point.Oh, except I did recently buy a $ 300 ship, which probably has less that 50 parts, plus whatever I choose to add.

That is one sad thing- the exchange rate sux so bad right now that I can't afford anything from White Ensign Models or Hannants anymore.

High prices?

The market will eventually sort it out.

If the economy goes south faster than folks can pay bills, stashes will be cheap and manufacturers will either cut back or go out of business.