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My Rant To The Powers That Be...

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  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Hobart, Tasmania
My Rant To The Powers That Be...
Posted by Konigwolf13 on Friday, June 3, 2011 2:27 AM

Last year I subscribed to a magazine many here are familiar with, its called FineScale Modeler. I decided not to renew when the time was up. Mainly because I dont think its the quality that it used to be and it also averages 10-20 pages shorter then when I used to buy it 5-10 hears ago. Also I dislike having to wait 2 weeks or more to find out what most other forum readers get but I can cope with that.

Even before my subscription was up, and I am (6 months later) still getting both snail mail and e-mail's with "Special Limited Offers"  that offer me the subscription at a discount? No!! The special limited and introductory offers I keep recieving are for the normal standard subscription price. I very much feel I'm getting treated like an idiot and I'm sick of it, since I must be to believe that there special offers are special (maybe to them they are).

But the biggest problem is the BIG RED RECTANGLE that sits a litte just of centre of my forums screen telling me to 'Renew today' which I find very distracting and offputting. I'm sorry FSM staff I will not be renewing my subscription is it possible to remove it?

 

So in a nutshell.

IMO the magazine may still be the same price the I get less quality and less of it so that is why no renewal.

I'm sick of being treated like and idiot, being told of special offers that are just the regular  price!

I'm sick of getting a big obnoxious red ractangle on my screen because I elected not to keep giving you money.

Please Stop The Spam

Please Stop The Snail Mail (its bad for the enviroment)

Please Get Rid Of The Obnoxious Red Rectangle

Signed

Andrew Harris

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, June 3, 2011 9:32 AM

Andrew, it's just my two cents, but if you're a forum member and you obviously use this site for more than just modeling interests (as in your social contacts and posts in Odds & Ends) then you should support the forum by subscribing. Either that or make a donation to Finescale in a suitable amount.

You've got a laundry list of complaints there but if you're not doing anything to support this fine magazine and its attendant forums, tell us why should Finescale Modeler even care? I mean--dude, you're here for FREE. Confused

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Friday, June 3, 2011 9:40 AM

Plus, forums are rather expensive to run/maintain. And considering that we are not paying for the site, they can put whatever they darn well please on the forums. If we paid for it, that might be a different story.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Friday, June 3, 2011 10:14 AM

If you don't wish to receive the emails, click the link at the bottom of the email to "unsubscribe" - easy.

We all get those, magazine subscriber or not - If you don't want them, simple, press the button.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Hobart, Tasmania
Posted by Konigwolf13 on Friday, June 3, 2011 11:44 AM

Doog, I did my bit and subscibed and IMO got a substandard product so why should I give them anymore money? No doubt they make enough from advertisers or the site wouldn't be here, my biggest drama is the Glaring Red Box everytime I log on that stays with me whole journey.

Phil all the FSM promo stuff just goes straight into my junk folder now so thats not really an issue, though they still send me snail mail its the fact that they give special offer's thats nothing more than the everyday subscription price with extra bling. They expect me to believe its special so I run and subscribe, I'm sorry I just find that insulting.

 

Maybe I'm being touchy but hell I'm allowed to be. I could go on and on but I wont. Suffice to say it would be nice at least NOT to have BIG RED BOX damn  near the centre of my screen everytime I log on for the duration of my visit.

 

Andrew

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, June 3, 2011 11:55 AM

Look at it this way, Andrew.

The Big Red Box is your price for a free admission.

Dude--you're on here for FREE.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Hobart, Tasmania
Posted by Konigwolf13 on Friday, June 3, 2011 12:06 PM

Actually I'm not here for free, see all those add down the right hand side, being subjected to them pays my admission (and yes I do follow them from time to time).

As simple and stupid as it sounds I have a disability that makes it very hard to concentrate at time (same thing that lets me get irritated at seemingly innane things). Blocks or colour like that can cause me to keep flicking to look at it, instead of scanning subject links or forum posts. Ever tried rereading the same paragraph 6 or 7 times cause something keeps you from focus? Think how frusting that may be for everypage you want to read!

Andrew

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by DrShrinker on Friday, June 3, 2011 12:30 PM

I let my sub run out several months ago (for different reasons) but i dont get this big red box you speak of on the web site. I do get the e-mail and snail mail adds which i just delete or use as masking scrap paper, but not the big red box. I use firefox with two trusty add ons, No Script and Ad block plus. So maybe that is why. /shrug

Safe surfing.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, June 3, 2011 12:55 PM

the doog

Andrew, it's just my two cents, but if you're a forum member and you obviously use this site for more than just modeling interests (as in your social contacts and posts in Odds & Ends) then you should support the forum by subscribing. Either that or make a donation to Finescale in a suitable amount.

Sorry doog, but I think this is bogus. The idea that someone has to subscribe to a magazine they are not happy with to secure their 'rights' to participate in the forum? Nope, sorry. There is already 'Subscriber only' content. If FSM is taking such a big hit by offering this forum for free then, by all means, charge a fee or make it 'Subscriber only' as well.

In my mind, it is FSM's decision to offer this for FREE. None of us has an obligation to give them money to participate.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, June 3, 2011 1:02 PM

bbrowniii

 

 the doog:

 

Andrew, it's just my two cents, but if you're a forum member and you obviously use this site for more than just modeling interests (as in your social contacts and posts in Odds & Ends) then you should support the forum by subscribing. Either that or make a donation to Finescale in a suitable amount.

 

 

Sorry doog, but I think this is bogus. The idea that someone has to subscribe to a magazine they are not happy with to secure their 'rights' to participate in the forum? Nope, sorry. There is already 'Subscriber only' content. If FSM is taking such a big hit by offering this forum for free then, by all means, charge a fee or make it 'Subscriber only' as well.

In my mind, it is FSM's decision to offer this for FREE. None of us has an obligation to give them money to participate.

That's your right to feel that way, Boyd. I'm not going to try to talk you down about it.

For me, I guess that it comes down to the way you wuz raised. I believe in that if you benefit from something as much as people here obviously benefit from this forum, then you have a moral obligation to support it. Anything else to me feels an awful lot like a sense of entitlement to me. But maybe that's the fashion these days for some?

Hey, wouldn't it be great if FSM decided to make the forum a "subscriber only" benefit?! COOL! Hey, I'm up for it! It wouldn't impact my participation a bit! Big Smile

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, June 3, 2011 1:09 PM

Indifferent

Free is free, doog. If they are going to offer it for free, I see no reason why people shouldn't take advantage of it.

The reality is, the forum isn' t free anyways - it is being paid for by all those nice ads that we see.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, June 3, 2011 1:19 PM

BTW...Anyone know how many articles has the Doog published in FSM?

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, June 3, 2011 1:19 PM

bbrowniii

 

 

 

Hmmm, you're not going to talk me 'down about it', but in the next breath you'll imply I was the product of poor upbringing... interesting...

Didn't imply that at all. I was talking about myself. And you ain't the one complaining.

bbrowniii
 

Look at it this way. If your car tires are low on air and you pull into the gas station with one of those 'free' air machines are you going to go inside and toss the guy behind the counter a quarter? I mean, you benefitted from the air, so don't you have a moral obligation? Or are you OK to with entitling yourself just a little?

If I used it EVERY DAY, ....yeah, sure, I probably would. AT least I wouldn't complain about him starting to charge for something I obviously NEEDED. But this forum isn't exactly a "need", now, is it?

At least I wouldn't complain about the hose not being long enough to reach three parking spaces away. You get my drift....

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, June 3, 2011 5:46 PM

Have you considered posting this topic in here?:

/forums/10.aspx

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 3, 2011 6:13 PM

Wow...that's 0 for 2... 

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Friday, June 3, 2011 7:00 PM

bbrowniii

The reality is, the forum isn' t free anyways - it is being paid for by all those nice ads that we see.

 

since when does it cost money to look at the ads? Plus, they're rather unobtrusive. A bar on the bottom right. The only time you get a pop-up is from FSM, and usually at the homepage.

 

Also, There shouldn't be an obligation to pay since you use the forums. However, because I use the forums often, I am inclined to subscribe, which I do. FSM is generous enough to put the forum out here for us to use. the least we can do is support their magazine. No obligation, but it's the charitable thing to do.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Friday, June 3, 2011 7:09 PM

Fine Scale Modeler is a great production.

I subscribe.

If you can't afford the nickel pal, find a free penny subscription you are happy with....pal....

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, June 3, 2011 8:15 PM

the doog

At least I wouldn't complain about the hose not being long enough to reach three parking spaces away. You get my drift....

Fair enough... Big Smile

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, June 3, 2011 8:18 PM

Boba Fett

 bbrowniii:

The reality is, the forum isn' t free anyways - it is being paid for by all those nice ads that we see.

 

 

since when does it cost money to look at the ads? Plus, they're rather unobtrusive. A bar on the bottom right. The only time you get a pop-up is from FSM, and usually at the homepage.

Tongue Tied... Ummmmm, it doesn't cost a dime to look at 'em. However, I suspect that FSM expects the advertisers to pay for their space on this forum, just like in the magazine or anywhere else. It doesn't cost you anything to read that bright shiny billboard on the side of the road as you go to work in the morning. Doesn't mean it didn't cost something to put it up there...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Friday, June 3, 2011 8:43 PM

Really pal,

maybe there is a stamps program.....

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tornado Alley
Posted by Echo139er on Friday, June 3, 2011 9:33 PM

Konigwolf13

Last year I subscribed to a magazine many here are familiar with, its called FineScale Modeler. I decided not to renew when the time was up. Mainly because I dont think its the quality that it used to be and it also averages 10-20 pages shorter then when I used to buy it 5-10 hears ago. Also I dislike having to wait 2 weeks or more to find out what most other forum readers get but I can cope with that.

My solution to the shortage of pages and lack of articles as well as the wait is simple. I go to the books store and I browse the mag.  If I like it I buy it, If not I move on.  Yes, I do pay more for it than if subscribe but, I really like the ones I buy and I feel they are worth the price.  Plus I get a sense of entitlement as a participant in this forum.  I believe in the past two years I've skipped 3 issues.

I also do not get the red box  you speak of nor do I get "junk" mail.  I have in the past but its nothing to write home about.

any way my 2 cents

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Friday, June 3, 2011 9:38 PM

Can't complain about a stamps program.....

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:28 AM

My friend.  I am disabled as well.  I have a ping pong ball sized ball of metal wire permanently residing in an artery in my brain to keep the arterial aneurysm that it lives in from popping.  I too have trouble with concentrating sometimes.  I also get those emails and snail mails.  But man..  You need to think of what you get for the price of a subscription.  Not only do you get the magazine, which I find immensely useful, but you also get access to online content here which is just as valuable and useful.   In addition you get access to these forums which contain more combined modeling know-how than any place else on the planet with the possible exception of an IPMS convention. I am living on under $1K a month which is all I get in disability payments.  But I am pretty well a shut in.  so the hobby is what keeps me sane.  I have no problem whatsoever with the subscription rate.  It is the one  treat I can afford.  I used to be a network administrator before I was disabled, so I know what the costs are in keeping a forum server running, as well as the costs of hosting a full site.  And trust me...  The subscription fee is more than reasonable.

All of us who have subscribed have paid our dues for what the site and magazine offers.  You are not paying for a subscription anymore and that's your choice, but the red rectangle is a small price to pay for free access to the resource that the rest of us pay for.  If you are not happy with the magazine or site, you don't have to use it.  That again, is your choice.  But you cannot expect to get the same as we do when you don't pay for the subscription we pay for.  Basically you have three choices.

1.  Stop going to the site if the box annoys you so much.

2.  Pay for the subscription like te rest of us do, so you no longer have to deal with the box.

3.  Put up with the box and be glad you can access without paying real money for the subscription.

Your choice.

Rich

 

Konigwolf13

Actually I'm not here for free, see all those add down the right hand side, being subjected to them pays my admission (and yes I do follow them from time to time).

As simple and stupid as it sounds I have a disability that makes it very hard to concentrate at time (same thing that lets me get irritated at seemingly innane things). Blocks or colour like that can cause me to keep flicking to look at it, instead of scanning subject links or forum posts. Ever tried rereading the same paragraph 6 or 7 times cause something keeps you from focus? Think how frusting that may be for everypage you want to read!

Andrew

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Saturday, June 4, 2011 9:44 PM

Sparrowhyperion

My friend.  I am disabled as well.  I have a ping pong ball sized ball of metal wire permanently residing in an artery in my brain to keep the arterial aneurysm that it lives in from popping.  I too have trouble with concentrating sometimes.  I also get those emails and snail mails.  But man..  You need to think of what you get for the price of a subscription.  Not only do you get the magazine, which I find immensely useful, but you also get access to online content here which is just as valuable and useful.   In addition you get access to these forums which contain more combined modeling know-how than any place else on the planet with the possible exception of an IPMS convention. I am living on under $1K a month which is all I get in disability payments.  But I am pretty well a shut in.  so the hobby is what keeps me sane.  I have no problem whatsoever with the subscription rate.  It is the one  treat I can afford.  I used to be a network administrator before I was disabled, so I know what the costs are in keeping a forum server running, as well as the costs of hosting a full site.  And trust me...  The subscription fee is more than reasonable.

All of us who have subscribed have paid our dues for what the site and magazine offers.  You are not paying for a subscription anymore and that's your choice, but the red rectangle is a small price to pay for free access to the resource that the rest of us pay for.  If you are not happy with the magazine or site, you don't have to use it.  That again, is your choice.  But you cannot expect to get the same as we do when you don't pay for the subscription we pay for.  Basically you have three choices.

1.  Stop going to the site if the box annoys you so much.

2.  Pay for the subscription like te rest of us do, so you no longer have to deal with the box.

3.  Put up with the box and be glad you can access without paying real money for the subscription.

Your choice.

Rich

 

 

 Konigwolf13:

 

Actually I'm not here for free, see all those add down the right hand side, being subjected to them pays my admission (and yes I do follow them from time to time).

As simple and stupid as it sounds I have a disability that makes it very hard to concentrate at time (same thing that lets me get irritated at seemingly innane things). Blocks or colour like that can cause me to keep flicking to look at it, instead of scanning subject links or forum posts. Ever tried rereading the same paragraph 6 or 7 times cause something keeps you from focus? Think how frusting that may be for everypage you want to read!

Andrew

 

 

Well Sparrow, you are a better man than me. I shouldn't have been so rude or flippant.

Fact is, the magazine is indeed worth the money, and I would encourage people to have a look.

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Sunday, June 5, 2011 1:04 PM

bbrowniii

 

 Boba Fett:

 

 

 bbrowniii:

The reality is, the forum isn' t free anyways - it is being paid for by all those nice ads that we see.

 

 

 

since when does it cost money to look at the ads? Plus, they're rather unobtrusive. A bar on the bottom right. The only time you get a pop-up is from FSM, and usually at the homepage.

 

 

Tongue Tied... Ummmmm, it doesn't cost a dime to look at 'em. However, I suspect that FSM expects the advertisers to pay for their space on this forum, just like in the magazine or anywhere else. It doesn't cost you anything to read that bright shiny billboard on the side of the road as you go to work in the morning. Doesn't mean it didn't cost something to put it up there...

 

Agreed. But how does that fit in? The viewer is merely looking at those for free. It's his choice whether he wants to click on it or go buy the advertised product. So... unless I'm misreading your original post there?

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: t.r.f. mn.
Posted by detailfreak on Monday, June 6, 2011 9:05 AM

                                    I do not subscribe,and probably will not. I find that there is usually very little that really catches my eye,and given that I cannot justify the cost of a subscription. I have in the past subscribed three or more times and have always been dis satisfied . So to each thier own.Or maybe we could be blacklisted from contributing,or forum participation. If that would be the case. Oh well,maybe we'll meet on another forum.

                                                          Greg"Detailfreak"RowleyYes

     ps. Doe'nt mean I don't play well with others.

[View:http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/g-earl828/]  http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/cycledupes/1000Roadwheels4BuildBadge.jpg

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, June 6, 2011 9:39 AM

the doog

 

 

For me, I guess that it comes down to the way you wuz raised. I believe in that if you benefit from something as much as people here obviously benefit from this forum, then you have a moral obligation to support it. Anything else to me feels an awful lot like a sense of entitlement to me. But maybe that's the fashion these days for some?

Moral obligation seems like a bit of a stretch, but like you said, maybe its the way you were raised. Thing is, we are supporting the forum whether we subscribe or not. Obviously, a forum doesn't function well with few members. The more members there are, the more traffic, the greater the likelihood that venders will pay to advertise in this space. Hate to bring up Facebook but.....its a free service that makes MILLIONS through advertising.

It probably costs relatively little to keep up this website since the Community Server is probably hosted elsewhere on the web (like seekdotnet.com or something similar). Don't know what kind of IT staff they have here but if the Server is hosted elsewhere they can probably expect 24/7 technical support which I'm sure they utilized to a great level when they made the 'infamous' change to this format several years ago. So, there probably isn't much they have to do to maintain the site, save for web design and editing content.

I stopped subscribing this February...not because I problems with the magazine, I quite enjoy it and I miss it. I simply ran out of space at the moment. Since I look at these magazines as reference material, I hate to throw them out, so I don't. Any how, I subscribed for five years, collecting 50 issues in the process. Eventually I'll subscribe again, but for now, if I see one I really like, I'll scoop it up from a book store.

Karl, I'm just curious, but do you feel more obliged to subscribe now too since your are basically a regular contributor to the magazine? Good articles by the way, yours are certainly some of my favorites.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Monday, June 6, 2011 10:39 AM

Boba Fett

 

 

Tongue Tied... Ummmmm, it doesn't cost a dime to look at 'em. However, I suspect that FSM expects the advertisers to pay for their space on this forum, just like in the magazine or anywhere else. It doesn't cost you anything to read that bright shiny billboard on the side of the road as you go to work in the morning. Doesn't mean it didn't cost something to put it up there...

 

 

Agreed. But how does that fit in? The viewer is merely looking at those for free. It's his choice whether he wants to click on it or go buy the advertised product. So... unless I'm misreading your original post there?

It is quite possible that we are both misreading each other. No worries. Geeked

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, June 6, 2011 12:18 PM

oddmanrush

 

 

Karl, I'm just curious, but do you feel more obliged to subscribe now too since your are basically a regular contributor to the magazine? Good articles by the way, yours are certainly some of my favorites.

Not at all, oddman; and I tried to ignore the regrettable comment that wanted to impute that.Thank you, too, by the way.

But since you asked directly, I'll say that I simply believe in something from which you derive a benefit and enjoyment. There seems to be such a sense of entitlement in this world anymore, from people stealing music on the internet to DVD pirating and cable TV theft. It makes me sick, honestly, to hear the lame justifications.

I have contributed to Wikipedia because I use it so much. When I was an active member at Armorama, I contributed "free" articles and features there. Armorama does not pay for its submissions, and I COULD have made money selling them to either Kalmbach or even another model magazine. But I submitted them to Armorama because I was getting both information and enjoyment from their site--for free, once again. But in my way of looking at it, submitting an article to them was the currency over there, so I "paid" for the enjoyment that I got from their site.

"Quid Pro Quo" it's called in Latin. You do for me, I do for you. That's how I wuz raised. It's a good way to be in life.

I could understand running out of room, but you could always give a gift subscription to a young nipper like I gave to one of my students?

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Monday, June 6, 2011 12:46 PM

If you don't like this forum....there are dozens of others, that are equally free. But this place is a pretty good place to be.

Truth be told though, I don't feel the slightest bit inclined to believe that I should subscribe to the magazine. I did it for a few years, and then about three years ago just stopped, as to me, the quality and quantity of information in the articles was steadily dropping.

I have not had a chance to take a look at the magazine again, but I'd like to, and if the content warranted it, I'd pay the subscription fee. But I see no correlation between the mag and the freely available forum.

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