Is a toy a model?

I have a Kenner A-Wing toy I bought years back with the very same intention. Take it apart and rebuild it and add fine detail to it. I did the same with a SW Land Speeder.

My opinion is this. Repaint a toy. That is a nicely repainted toy. Rebuild that toy to incorporate better detail and fill in seams add scale fidelity then you now used that toy as a starting point. The end result is a scale model. IMHO.....

Nitehalk    The RC guys are coming to get you!   I have taken some of my subs to a pond just to see if they would float......  Am I playing ?    Or does that count as "research?        If it sinks is it a model?

I would consider rebuilding a "toy" or diecast as modeling. Look at it like being on different levels--scratchbuilding-->building from a kit-->building or rebuilding an existing article.  Purists might say scratcbuilding is the ultimate form of modeling expression whereas a model kit has some or a lot of the work done by the molding or casting process.  I have a number of models I built from kits back (way back) in my high school days that I would like to "fix" ie repaint, clean up seams etc. that occured when my skill set was not what ii is now or will be.  I think that would be modeling.

Freem

I know one thing; I've made a lot of models into toys.

Got to add my two cents to all this,if you play with it it is a toy,If you display it,it is a model a form of art,

buying  a toy to fix up is no different than buying an assembled kit to fix up. They call them Wreck-scue on AAMB forum.

Don Stauffer

This is very similar to modifying die cast models (sold already assembled). I have seen such models entered in contests and no one complained that I am aware of.  Just refinishing might not be enough, but when they are extensively modified like the OP did, I think it qualifies.

i don't mind diecasts, as they usually have subjects not done by plastics manuf. they have an annoying habit of sticking all together in the box. Sometimes they almost look finished, like someone had a try at assembling it.

Well if you take something apart and enhance and rebuild it so that it is no longer in its original purpose i.e... a toy why wouldn't it be a model?  If someone scratch builds a model from various components, is that not a model?  or is it just wood, brass, and glue?

So if you build it to be seen but not played with or handled its a model, if you set the model into a theme then its a diorama, so finally who cares unless you enter it into a competition and claim you built the whole thing from a kit.

They only say your playing with toys untill you tell them you get paid for it. Then two things happen .... they look puzzled and walk away, never to bring it up again.  Or, they suddenly want to hang around you to get to know you better and show them how to do it to. This never lasts however, ...they didnt know it takes years to learn how to assemble "TOYS" !!!!!

Perhaps if there is enough interest in the subject perhaps there could be a "Modified die-cast/Pre-built category " for contests.  And as far as "toy like" goes, I learned a long time ago that a good 90% of the adult public who aren't modelers consider us to be adults who build "little plastic toys".  And no amount of explaining or talking will ever change their minds! (My 50th class reunion was last fall and I had at least two classmates ask me if I was still playing with those little plastic model toys)

I just the other day saw a pic of a 12" action figure, whether it was a GI Joe or waht i can't recall, but it had been very detailed and put into a dio setting, it doesn't look 'toylike' in the pic. Where does it stand? Is it a toy or figure? I was wondering too about the 1 piece figure 'kits', they just need painting and detailing. When I mentioned my 'model-toys' earlier, I like my toy stuff to still have a 'toy' loook and feel to them. My models, tho, I want accurate, or at least relatively accurate. I see on eBay a lot of times just because a vehicle is 'sized' for GI Joe, it's described as being 1/6 scale, even tho it's not even based on a real vehicle or in accurate 1/6 scale, it'd be 2 or 3 times the size it is. Some will even argue that if it's for GI Joe, it IS 1/6 scale regardless of size.

                     What if you build something out of Leggos?  Its plastic right?

  (Had to throw this last one in for the younger guys who may not know what a Tinker toy is.)

                                                               Are Lincoln Logs a kit?

                                                               Is an Erector set a kit?

                                                      Are Tinker Toys considered a kit?

                                            Or are all these considered learning toys?

                                      Is my 1\72 scale U-Boat  a kit or a learning toy?

                                                What happens if I dont learn anything?

I'v decided to stir the pot a little more.    Do the guys that do figures get accused of playing with toys? Some figures are one piece that you only have to paint. Is that considered a kit?  What if you only give a figure a glosscoat? If you leave it in a natural finish is it a toy?

    If you get mad at it and throw it at a wall is it now an "action toy"?.     

Haha, yeah this is probably all being way over thought.

I think most of us should know the accepted difference between what we consider a model and what we consider a toy... 

This is starting to make my head hurt!

I would still consider that a model. Its origins are still as a model kit regardless of possession.

Is it a toy because WE didn't build it? Makes me ponder the following........a modeler builds a beautiful Tamiya P-47, then gives it to his buddy. Is his buddy now in possession of a toy or a model?

littletimmy

I will say this....   A guy who takes a Han Solo action toy and paints the vest blue and then enters it in a contest is off his rocker. There should be some sort of dividing line between  a touch of paint and a complete overhaul.  And yea  ok   I give in...... there not kits. But they were assembled from parts at the factory so dissasembly and reassembly may count........ I think? 

                                                                                       

I agree, they should not be entered into contests. Either way, most contests I've been in require you to name the kit you've assembled so it would be difficult for an entry to be accepted if it was a Hasbro or Mattel action figure or something.

Well if you want to get all technical, than the dictionary defines "model" as a representation, generally in miniature, to show the construction or appearance of something.

It doesn't say a model is necessarily a kit, the final sum of many parts. Just a representation in miniature. So a toy, technically, is a model in the barest sense of the term.

That's playing devils advocate. However, I think it is generally understood at least to us that a model is something we've built from a kit.

If I were to post something like that, I would preface it by mentioning it is a toy as you have.

I do work with toys a lot and put them on bases. Less "modeling" and more diorama building in this case. Mostly giving the toy a wash, some dry brushing, maybe some new paint then putting on a detailed base - like this little Hoth scene I did recently.

I will say this....   A guy who takes a Han Solo action toy and paints the vest blue and then enters it in a contest is off his rocker. There should be some sort of dividing line between  a touch of paint and a complete overhaul.  And yea  ok   I give in...... there not kits. But they were assembled from parts at the factory so dissasembly and reassembly may count........ I think? 

I had a similar discussion with an art critic, "What is art" I asked - "If you say its art its art" was his reply. If you say its a model its a model and some of the guys on here produce art.

Phil

As a collector of 12" action figures (GI Joe +) and Major Matt Mason, among other things, I have made a number of vehicles for both, but mostly MMM. Some are models of MMM prototype vehicles that either exist only in a few pics or drawings or some are scaled up from smaller '60s era space toys and vehicles that aren't out of place with MMM stuff. Since they look like they are supposed to but aren't generally functional but are made for my toyline collection, I refer to them as 'model-toys'. I occasionally have detailed and painted toy vehicles to use with my aircraft models. I consider them toys that were detailed and painted but were accurate for being toys and good enough to go with my models.

A very timely post.

I just converted an "Arthur Saves Christmas" S-1 Sleigh from a toy to a model display. Its was only $2.99 at TRU after Christmas.

I basicly filled in gaps with putty, sealed the cockpit, removed the wheels/filled the wells with putty, puttied over screw heads, and scraped/sanded off some manufacturers marks.

I also repainted the three figures that comes with it and removed the base that helped them stand up.

Not to bad.

On the die cast items I remember an entire forum devoted to making die cast look more realistic by repainting, modifying, weathering, etc. It was a car forum and I dont do cars so I didnt following it for very long.

I think its a question of semantics. How narrowly or broadly do you want to define a "model". A model doesnt even have to be a physical thing. It could just be an explanation. i.e. a chemical reaction, gravity, light waves, etc.

Anyone for a "scale replica"?

Hmmmmm.....   Ok I guess there are certain peramiters that should be set.   A toy is designed to be played with. A model is for show only.  But wait .... the rc guys might take offence to that. Toys take a beating that a model could'nt handle so toys dont have a lot of detail that could be broken off or eaten. RC models usually dont have a lot of detail for the same reason.... rough handling. Does that mean an RC boat is a toy?  Also, if you buy an already built RC car  ,boat or airplane Is it a model? is it considered a kit? Is a prefab house a kit and if so does that mean a house built from the ground up is considered "scratch built?   A prefab house requires some assembly so some skill is involved . Same with model assembly. Taking a toy and altering details or making scale adjustments to it also takes some skill.   True ... some of us have more skill than others but in the end what you are left with is somthing that is "different than the others".  I stand by my previous post. A toy can be improved . I also understand that sometimes the alterations are so dramatic that little to nothing of the original toy is left.

When it comes right down to it..... are'nt we all just working in miniature? 

Just so I dont  "ENRAGE" the RC guys..... yes I have seen RC models that are detailed to infinity and still float or fly just fine.

Well.....hmmm.....maybe because you TOLD us it was a toy, it still looks like a toy to me. Too many bright colors, and the detail looks really soft.

I'd say it's a "model" in the same way that a pre-fab is a "house". You couldn't really tell someone that you "built" you house--even if you fixed it up all nicely. Not really the same thing, in my opinion.

This is very similar to modifying die cast models (sold already assembled). I have seen such models entered in contests and no one complained that I am aware of.  Just refinishing might not be enough, but when they are extensively modified like the OP did, I think it qualifies.

littletimmy

                                     But it's not a model kit.

Technically   anything with more than two pieces could be called a "kit" .        

possibly,but a star wars action figure,that someone buys and enhances,is not sold as a model kit,it is a toy or action figure.

                                     But it's not a model kit.

Technically   anything with more than two pieces could be called a "kit" .