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Help, Old Modeler back with few Quesitons

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  • Member since
    April 2013
Help, Old Modeler back with few Quesitons
Posted by VTModel01 on Friday, April 26, 2013 12:51 PM

Hello, typical old guy re-entering the model world after 30 years of other-world toil 

Wow!!   Lots of new stuff

I would appreciate any direction and/or thoughts  (airplanes mostly for me)   I am deeply immersed in various issues of Military Illustrated and fine Scale Modeler and I have a number of the FS How to books so I am not trying to get answers to stuff the is easily researched (half the fun is finding this stuff out)....but at this point, some things which I think are "easy" confound me....any thoughtful direction is appreciated.

Things I seem to understand 

The market addition of PE parts, the market addition of resin parts, both of these add detail to a given set.   I get this, you buy the kit, perhaps some accessory kits and have a blast. Also, acrylic paints seem to be new to me -- easy to use and clean up as I understand.   Also, air brushes, which 30 years ago I could not afford, seem to be used all the time.

Things I do not understand

Glue: What glue do you use, does one use super glue all the time?  Do you ever use the old Tester "melt it together" stuff I used to know?   Is this something I will just figure out?   Are there different glues for different applications?   There is slow glue, runny glue, fast setting glue, etc?  Paint:  I do not understand the various painting instructions, not so much the detailing and weathering (techniques that I read about) as much as the decal preparation and the final preparation--I guess the overall process steps?    I get the "paint the plane" step, but then you air-brush/spray the whole thing in gloss?  Then you put on decals?  Then you weather?  Then you spray the whole thing in matt?   Am I getting this right, I have yet to read anything about this that does not confuse this mind.... Mold Details:  It seem I have read conflicting things...one model demands you sand down the rivet marks, while another model is great because it has the rivet marks?  In general, the panel definition and various outlines have improved over the years and I get this...why would one want to sand down a set of rivet marks?

With apologies, I admit I have yet to open the box.  Some are coming my way.  But I would like to have a feel for the process before I start crackin plastic.   The rest, I would like to discover on my own?

Thank you

Chris

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:46 AM

VTModel01

Things I do not understand

Glue: What glue do you use, does one use super glue all the time?  Do you ever use the old Tester "melt it together" stuff I used to know?   Is this something I will just figure out?   Are there different glues for different applications?   There is slow glue, runny glue, fast setting glue, etc?  

Yes, to some degree, different glues for different applications.

Liquid (bottled hobby) cement is a good all around assembly product for plastic parts. Testor's bottle is an example, Plastruct is another. Tamiya has at least one. I apply Plastruct with a drafting pen, either to a seam and let capillary action draw the glue along or on the surface to be glues. If you're bonding two dissimilar materials, PE, resin, plastic, a 
"super glue" will be your go to product. I like the Zap-A-Gap products. To get an super fast bond, an accelerator like Zip Kicker can be judiciously applied. Don't use the spray that comes in the bottle. A piece of wire, rod, stretched sprue or an old paint brush will work much better. 

Paint:  I do not understand the various painting instructions, not so much the detailing and weathering (techniques that I read about) as much as the decal preparation and the final preparation--I guess the overall process steps?    I get the "paint the plane" step, but then you air-brush/spray the whole thing in gloss?  Then you put on decals?  Then you weather?  Then you spray the whole thing in matt?   Am I getting this right, I have yet to read anything about this that does not confuse this mind....

Gloss paint may simplify the process, but many military colors are not available in gloss. Also, gloss tends to dry more slowly and is prone to orange peel. Use the closest color you need to match the prototype. Let teh paint dry, acryics dry faster than enamels, Apply a coat of gloss. many people like Future Acrylic Floor Polish by Johnnson's Wax in the grocery store. Certainly more economical than hobby branded products! Any gloss will do. Let Dry. Apply decals. Some chose to seal with gloss before weathering, some go directly to flat. Try both and see what works for you. Weather. You want blend the decals in with with the rest of the model, since anything that happened to the paint on the prototype happened to the marking. Seal with a flat coat. Note: do not use Tamiya's Flat Base, at least not from the bottle. It's designed to be mixed with paint to flatten the paint. Some people mix it with Future to get a flat finish, but then you're complicating matters by needing to get just the right mixture or end up with a semi gloss finish or a milky white finish. Clear flat, such as Testor's DullCote from the bottle works great when shot through an airbrush.

Mold Details:  It seem I have read conflicting things...one model demands you sand down the rivet marks, while another model is great because it has the rivet marks?  In general, the panel definition and various outlines have improved over the years and I get this...why would one want to sand down a set of rivet marks?

You might not want to but then again,you might. Depends. Some vintage kits have extremely overdone rivets. Back in the late 60's and earl;y 70's we thought that indicated better detail. Old Airfix and some old Revell kits are among the worst. This is a case for research. Look up the prototype, in books or on line. If possible, see one in person at a museum. Note how prominent the rivets are or appear to be. Proceed accordingly. 

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Twin Towns, MN
Posted by MAgather on Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:31 AM

VT:

First, welcome. Second, don't worry, there is plenty of time to learn, so don't blow your head up with the too many details. There are folks here who are pros in every sense of the word, and of course they are using techniques that flummox mere mortals.

Glue: I have multiple types of the good old 'tube' glue like you remember, but none in tubes. Testors Model Master is a nice one, thin stainless tube allows precise general purpose application. Ther are other more specialized types and methods of application. Remember the old style glues just bond by melting the plastic, they don't work on resin or PE, and definitely not on paint.

Beyond color, paint can be simple or complex. I have 7 to 10 different steps where color is just the first. The reason for a smooth coat is for decal adhesion.  Rough surfaces don't allow the decal to snuggle down and bond well. After the fact the decal 'silvers' and doesn't look right.

Dont fret, just build.  And in no time you will be using some of the techniques that folks use here.

Good Modeling,
  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by mitsdude on Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:45 AM

On the glues.

Yes, different glues for different applications.

Super glue is popular among many people in model forums. I tried super glue after getting back into the hobby and reading about its benefits in this forum and others. It just didn't work out for me. I've thrown away more of it than I've used because it has,for me, a limited shelf life. I've since pretty much gone back to the solvent type glues. I do see its possible use on projects where you might have to "crack" the model open to get at lights, wiring, batteries, etc.

The really thin glues like Tenax, Ambroid, and Platistruct can evaporate on you if the cap doesn't seat well.

I really like the Testors Model Master liquid cement with the applicator. Be sure to get the one in the black labeled  plastic bottle and not the red labeled  one. The applicator in the black one is a thin metal tube and the red one has a plastic applicator prone to clogging.

I still use the good ole Testors cement in the red/orange squeeze tube. I suppose its mostly because its what I've used from the beginning (early 60's) and have just learned how to manipulate it for my needs. I find it most useful when I need to glue a piece with lots of surface area that may take several minutes to apply all the glue and get it aligned right.

I've just started experimenting with the Tamiya liquid glues which are very popular.

Another must have glue are the crafting "hot glues". Fortunately the "guns" and glue sticks are very inexpensive.

Then there are the epoxys. Very useful in areas where strength is need.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Saturday, April 27, 2013 5:05 PM

Foremost....welcome.  Secondly, I feel your pain.  I just bought models for the 21 years I was in the Air Force, now that I'm back into it, I have had an education for sure.  Not like when we used to build them huh?!  Anyway, I'm still learning the airbrush thing.  I'm trying to justify buying a compressor this weekend!  As for the glues....yeah, the old orange tube of smelly stuff is almost obsolete now.  My suggestion would be do what I did.  I bought one bottle of almost every kind of glue: Faller Expert: (not bad, dries slow, ok for doing big pieces i.e. 1/48 B-17, 24, 29, 36 wings.  Faller Super Expert: did not see any difference between Expert and Super Expert.  Testors Plastic Cement: this is the stuff in the little bottle with the brush.  It's like freon and will evaporate quickly.  Stinks too! But it dries fast and "welds" the plastic.  Not bad stuff, my third favorite.  Microscale Micro Weld:  Smells better than all the rest, but I'm not crazy about it.  Didn't seem to dry as fast as the other liquid stuff.  Tenax-7R:  I used this stuff when I first started back into modeling and fell in love with it!  Great stuff, but it dries really fast.  It too is like freon and evaporates quickly.  You leave the lid off...it's gone!  It is my second favorite.  Ambroid Pro Weld:  Now this stuff is my favorite!  I got a bottle when I couldn't find any Tenax and absolutely fell in love  with it.  Not sure why, I just like it a little better than Tenax.  It's lid comes with a little brush like Testors...maybe that's why?!  Anyway, I really like it and you get about twice as much for the same price as Tenax.  Finally, Model Masters Clear Parts Cement:  I may be wrong, but it seems to be watered down  white glue.  I may try some watered down white glue to compare someday.  

So, as for PE, resin, aftermarket stuff?  Shot, let me know when you try some stuff.  I have some kits with it in the box already, but have not been brave enough to try yet.  But, there is a wealth of knowledge here on the forum, and these guys and gals are awesome!  More than willing to help out a couple of new/old guys like us!  So jump on in and have fun!  Bring back the youth and let the glue fly!

Eagle90

P.S.  Is the VT in VTMODEL01 for Vermont?

 

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by VTModel01 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:59 AM

Many thanks

Yes the VT is for where I live.

Not creative, but it is all I got.

Thank you

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:12 AM

First- acrylic paint. I use it very little.  I am comfortable with enamel, have used it for decades, and I can still get what I need in enamel. It brushes well, and gives me more time to clean my airbrush (acrylic dries so fast you must be punctual in how soon you clean airbrush afterward).

I use four kinds of glue. For most joints I use the gel CA.  With the gel the parts do not need to fit perfectly, and the adhesive sets a little more slowly giving me time to adjust longer joints.  I do keep regular thin fast drying CA for when the parts fit perfectly and I want a quick bond.

I keep white glue and a close cousin, the stuff sold for windows and canopies.  I do NOT use that for windows that mount inside fuselages, however.  The bond is not real strong and windows can pop inside during masking.  The windows are then virtually impossible to glue back in place with fuselage closed up.  For such windows I use epoxy.

I also use white glue for attaching small pieces of photo-etch.  The slow drying time gives me plenty of working time, and if I get too much glue in joint so it oozes out, white glue dries transparent.

So I keep all four kinds, gel and regular CA, white glue, and epoxy, on my bench.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, April 28, 2013 12:27 PM

I'm a born & raised Vermonter, but went to college on Long Island then went wherever the Army sent me after that. I retired in Kentucky, but I am still a Vermonter.

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by Jeremy on Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:15 PM

Heya VT! Eagle is probably just happy to see a fellow Vermonter join the hobby and forum. Creativity is better suited on building and less on forum names anyway ;)

I'm from New Hampshire myself. Well, born and raised in Arizona but I've wanted to live in New England since I was seven years old (seriously) and I've never felt more at home than I do living here. Maybe this fall you'll make it to the show in Nashua, NH! I'm new to the hobby myself and have really learned a lot from the folks here. Being able to talk to friendly people who are enthusiastic about the hobby is a real encouragement.

Enjoy!

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • From: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Posted by Digital_Cowboy on Sunday, April 28, 2013 3:34 PM

VTModel01,

     Given you say that it's been about 30 yrs since you last built.  Might I suggest that you get some cheap kits to practice on.  This way if you screw up you won't be ruining a kit that is important to you.  They'll also give you "fodder" to practice gluing and painting techniques before you commit them to a kit that is important to you.

---------------------------------
Digital Cowboy
Live Long and Prosper
On the Bench: '64 Ford Fairlane; '09 Corvette Coupe

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:33 PM

VTModel01

Many thanks

Yes the VT is for where I live.

Not creative, but it is all I got.

Thank you

What part of Vermont?

Jeremy is right.  Didn't know of too many Vermont folk on the forum.  Now it seems like there is a couple 3 now.  Are you in any of the "local" clubs?  Jeremy also mentioned the model show in N.H..  I just went to my first show about 3 weeks ago in Richmond.  Wow!  Had an awesome time!  Meet some really cool people, made a couple of friends, and picked up some great kits.  If you have never been to a show, it is a must!  

Eagle90

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:34 PM

Rob Gronovius

I'm a born & raised Vermonter, but went to college on Long Island then went wherever the Army sent me after that. I retired in Kentucky, but I am still a Vermonter.

Rob, where are you from?  I'm in St. Albans now.  Have lived in Swanton and Fairfax.  

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:44 PM

My hometown is Springfield. I met a few fellow Vermonters when I used to run the maintenance school at Fort Devens, Mass. I gave some tours, rides in 113s, etc.

I used to attend the local shows in Springfield (Mass), Bedford, Attleburo and Nashua from 2001 to 2005. A couple other local shows that slip my mind right now.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:59 PM

Rob Gronovius

My hometown is Springfield. I met a few fellow Vermonters when I used to run the maintenance school at Fort Devens, Mass. I gave some tours, rides in 113s, etc.

I used to attend the local shows in Springfield (Mass), Bedford, Attleburo and Nashua from 2001 to 2005. A couple other local shows that slip my mind right now.

Springfield!  I've been working for the National Weather Service since I retired and we have to go to Hartness State Airport all the time.  Little bit of a drive from the airport in Burlington, but not bad.

So you have been to the show in Nashua?  What was it like?  How big was it when you went last?  I'm seriously thinking about hitting it this year.  

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:10 PM

The last time I went to Granite State was in late 2004 (Nov?). Al Lafleche here probably has been more recently. It was a good sized show with a make-n-take. My daughter won several awards (she was 11 and is now 19). That was the last time she built models, we had a great time but guys were getting ready to give me a hard time because she almost won more medals than I did. We tied I think.

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by Jeremy on Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:34 PM

Being so close and as I haven't been to a show myself yet, I will definitely be hitting Nashua. It'd be great if more folks from around here went, too.  Meeting people and talking is a lot of fun, when I was in Columbus last week I had such an awesome time hanging out in the shop I found there just chatting it up and asking questions. Sure wish there was a decent shop near where I am in New Hampshire.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:47 PM

Rob Gronovius

The last time I went to Granite State was in late 2004 (Nov?). Al Lafleche here probably has been more recently. It was a good sized show with a make-n-take. My daughter won several awards (she was 11 and is now 19). That was the last time she built models, we had a great time but guys were getting ready to give me a hard time because she almost won more medals than I did. We tied I think.

That's cool.  Daughter almost tied with you?  Keeping it in the family is a good thing! Thanks.

Eagle90

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:51 PM

Jeremy

Being so close and as I haven't been to a show myself yet, I will definitely be hitting Nashua. It'd be great if more folks from around here went, too.  Meeting people and talking is a lot of fun, when I was in Columbus last week I had such an awesome time hanging out in the shop I found there just chatting it up and asking questions. Sure wish there was a decent shop near where I am in New Hampshire.

Hey Jeremy, I hope to be there.  As of right now we are planning on.  That's cool about the shop in Columbus.  I have to go to Kansas City, MO a couple of times a year with the weather service for training and was thinking about trying to hit Sprue Brothers next time I'm there.  

Eagle90

 

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