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Military vets - is this hat offensive?

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  • Member since
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  • From: NW Washington
Military vets - is this hat offensive?
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Monday, September 23, 2013 5:09 PM

  If I bought a hat like this and wore it to my model club meetings, and you were a member of that club, would you consider it offensive? Even knowing that I do so as a tongue-in-cheek joke and an effort to bring a little levity and character to the group, with no political or otherwise serious message intended?


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Posted by ajlafleche on Monday, September 23, 2013 6:12 PM

Not a vet here, but I have a couple pennies.

Well, consider we never really came to blows with the USSR.We rattled sabers at each other, fought proxy wars, and came close to cooking the planet 51 years ago, but we never went full out.  

What I think is far more offensive is people tooling around on their mopeds and scooters wearing German WWII helmets or  guys showing up in SS  and other German unit t-shirts 

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Posted by GMorrison on Monday, September 23, 2013 6:41 PM

What he said. But it's a free country, right?

We never had a shooting war with the Rooskies, thank god.

I have a Soviet Navy belt buckle that I wear from time to time.

Getting a major "Strangelove" flashback....

My father in law didn't like our BMW, but he had a wall full of Sony stuff. To each their own.

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  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, September 23, 2013 11:23 PM

In one of my ancient Zvezda T-60 models, I got a Soviet Guards badge inside of it. I think it was included as a prize. The kit was labeled for sale in the USSR only. I used to keep it on the desk in my office next to my unit coins and name plate that had my former unit crests on it. I had it as more of a souvenir of our winning the Cold War.

Hat wouldn't bother me as much as the guys who think the *** were all that.

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Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:00 AM

 I had a sweatshirt with a red star/hammer and sickle with CCCP that I would wear while at work repairing Navy ships and subs. When questioned about it, I would simply state that I was wearing as a symbol of the freedoms we have in the USA (and to be a non-conformist) and would ask my questioner if he thought my Soviet counterpart in in the USSR could get away with wearing a sweatshirt with a bald eagle and USA on it.  That always got a nod of approval.

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Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:43 AM

I'm not a vet but personally I don't have an issue if you're joking around, it's the people wearing stuff like AJ posted who are serious about it that bother me.

After bringing a couple of Japanese fighters to our club meeting I wore a headband with a rising sun on it as a joke. Most of the crew understood the humour in how goofy a white guy wearing a Japanese headband looks but one guy really got offended by it. Not sure why, he isn't a vet and he's only about 40 or so. Nevertheless I took it off and haven't worn it since.

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Posted by Blueline on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:24 AM

If you have to ask, then you already have your answer.

Dre
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Posted by Dre on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:03 AM

LOL, I have a hat like that one that I've considered getting a Rooskyi emblem for.

So, no.  I would not be offended in any way unless the person wearing it is yelling like a party apparatchik.

(not a veteran, but a product of the Cold War)

  • Member since
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  • From: Talent, OR
Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:24 AM

Uncle Buck may have said it best . . .

"It angers a lot of people.  Just the sight of it." 

Smile

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

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Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 12:54 PM

As a vet ('83-"07), no I dont find wearing one of those offensive. I actually bought one while I was at Hohenfels Germany while we were training up for deployment to the Balkans. And wore it on a few snowy nights there. I have collected a bit of Soviet militaria, and like Rob, consider it souveniers of "we won that one". I am in agreement about the SS or Che Guevarra t-shirts and such, wether worn for shock value or because the person believes in those ideologies.

Oh we actually were in a shooting war with the Soviets- at least in the air. It's just the powers that be on both sides kept it hush hush so that it did not turn in to WWIII. In Korea, the USAF and Soviet VVS rose daily to fight head to head in Mig Alley over North Korea from late 1950 until July 1953.

 

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Posted by Bish on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 1:40 PM

Personally, I find it highly offensive, but that has nothing to do with me being a vet, but it is a free country.

What I don't get is why it is perfectly expectable to wear something like this, but wear anything with a swastika on it and you would get lynched.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

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  • Member since
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Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:07 PM

I agree Bish.  The Soviets were just as bad or worse than the ***. I find it odd that the hammer and sickle doesn't evoke the same reactions as the swastika as well.  I used to live in area that was very heavily populated by Russian immigrants and most of them would have taken exception to a hat like this.

I personally wouldn't wear something featuring either of those symbols.

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

  • Member since
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  • From: Talent, OR
Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:18 PM

Strange example of what you were saying, Bish I can say Soviet here, but they blanked out "knotsie" in my above post.

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

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  • From: Lyons Colorado, USA
Posted by Ray Marotta on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:28 PM

I AM a veteran and your hat doesn't offend me.  What DOES offend me is people who wear che guevara (doesn't deserve caps) shirts...

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Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:32 PM

bitbite

Strange example of what you were saying, Bish I can say Soviet here, but they blanked out "knotsie" in my above post.

An explanation for that, bitbite. It's nothing political.

The auto *** feature, the nannybot, is set up to defuse flame wars. In this case the term *** is commonly used in fights about obsessive sticklers for accuracy, for instance "rivet ***".

Nazi however works

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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  • From: Talent, OR
Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:35 PM

Thanks for the clarification. So if I capitalize it it's ok?  Let's try.  Nazi.

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

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Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:38 PM

It works!  Makes little sense but I guess I understand it. People who lack don't capitalize should be punished, I suppose.  However sometimes, like you, I do it intentionally.  Wink

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

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  • From: St louis
Posted by Raualduke on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:09 PM

It dosent offend me a bit ,ihad a very similar hat until my dog chewed it up. (I'm not kidding)

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Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:22 PM

bitbite

It works!  Makes little sense but I guess I understand it. People who lack don't capitalize should be punished, I suppose.  However sometimes, like you, I do it intentionally.  Wink

No, no- it's not the capitalization; it's singular (acceptable) versus plural (not acceptable).

I'm sure I do not know the reason why this is, but if you think about it in the context of people hurling insults, it kind of makes sense.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Talent, OR
Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:28 PM

*test* So I can say, "Rivet *** like you . .  ."  but not, "You are a rivet nazi."

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

  • Member since
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  • From: Talent, OR
Posted by bitbite on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:29 PM

Ok, other way around.  Got it.  Not sure about the philosophy, but I'm not out to flame anyone anyway.  I'll just accept that that's how it is.  Smile

"Resist the urge to greedily fondle the parts . . ." - Sheperd Paine "Modeling Tanks and Military Vehicles" Page 5

  • Member since
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Posted by the doog on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:42 PM

I have the exact same one. I bought it directly on Red Square in Moscow, and wear it regularly when it gets silly-cold up North.  There's noting "offensive" about it---it's a hat, that's all; not an endorsement. I also have a full Soviet-era greatcoat with insignia, and have worn that to Wegmans when I walked down there in one blizzard up in NY when I lived there. Good enough for Siberia, good enough for NY. I would have been pretty surprised if anyone actually took offense to that in any way.

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  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:57 AM

Its funny what burns some people.  I used to shoot at a rifle range many years ago, all ex-military stuff.  One day I dragged out my chi-com SKS out of the car- well you could have heard a pin drop.  I quickly stuffed it back in the car and re-appeared with my trusty 30-06 Springfield,  Not a word was said.  Boy those folks were down on anything communist.  I remember the first time my in-laws saw one of my builds, a Stuka with swastika on the tail.  Much tut-tutting about how I shouldnt display such an "evil" insignia.  Thats just their generation I guess.  They lived through the war and some things are not easily forgotten.....

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  • From: Milaca, Minnesota
Posted by falconmod on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 7:12 AM

I also have a couple of these hats with that insignia on it, one I even bought at the moscow airport.  I kinda consider it a badge of our victory.   I also like the hat itself up here on the north country when it's -20 degree's.

John

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Posted by dirkpitt77 on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 3:48 PM

Interesting discussion. Thanks guys.

    I think there is something intriguing about "the bad guys". Where "the good guys" have the expected morality, the sense of right and wrong, and the stars and bars on their wing, I think it sort of lends a bland tone to them. Not necessarily a bad thing.  When you think of the bad guys, or the enemy, there is a mystery there, a sort of curiousity about the way they live, operate, fight, think, etc.  which has always generated an interest in me when I go to buy a model, or when I picked out toys as a kid.  Modeling their equipment or wearing their gear is...well...different, or sinister, or exciting. That's all it is to me.

  Unfortunately some in my club don't see it that way, and since they've been there much longer than me, it's not an argument I can win. I might have to find a different hat.

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

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  • From: Indiana
Posted by hkshooter on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 5:41 PM

No, I would not find it offensive. Might even get a chuckle out of it. But then I'd chuckle if you showed up wearing a full Nazi uniform too, unless I thought you were serious.

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Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, September 26, 2013 8:10 AM

I Vuud Haf You Shot In Za Morning ! !

  No way do I find that offensive . In cold country you wear what is warm , They do ! Three tours in country ( Nam ) didn't make a narrow minded putz out of me . Now , I would say I was offended when I entered a model with Swastikas on it and was told to remove it from the contest because it offended the venue building owners .They Knew there would be models with Soviet and Nazi emblems on them ! You go ahead and wear that hat and don't be surprised if I show up in your neck of the woods wearing one with insignia that outranks yours . Ha! Ha! . I wore the uniform to guarantee our way of life was safe . Freedom of speech and expression is part of that . I am only offended when the wearer espouses that as the right way to govern and live .That goes for " CHE " shirts and " SS " emblems and beliefs too .They are just dead wrong . "You vant trade ? I giff you VODKA for Popular Science Magazine " AK for Nikes ! DA ! He! He! He!      Tanker - Builder

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  • From: Ohio
Posted by B-17 Guy on Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:57 AM

As a vet I wouldnt be bothered by that hat. I dont like when I see people wearing SS tshirts though. I'd personally wear the hat for its function but I'd remove the pin because I have no affiliation nor do I support what the pin is.

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Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 26, 2013 8:28 PM

I got my buckle for a half used can of Right Guard aerosol.

Now, what would happen to Ivan if he showed up at the Greater Moscow IPMS meeting wearing a K-pot?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:44 PM

good question.. alhough they are using a very similat style helmet nowadays... or at least some of the Spetsnaz types are...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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