A good question, curious to see what people think.

WW2 warships are being produced like never before as quality kits.

Sailing ship models are mostly the old dated ones, with a few new offerings.

Small craft, pleasure craft etc. used to be really popular but I would say are rare to non existent.

Merchant ships, forget about it.

This forum seems to perk along pretty well on the strength of a small group of regulars.

I really like ships in the 1/350 scale and have 13 builds in the case and 7 in the stash,but it has been about 7 years since I built one.For me it has been dwindling bench time which has prevented me,ships take awhile and when time is limited,I reach for something that goes a little quicker.

Could be pricing for many also,newer detailed stuff cost a lot,and if you choose PE,the cost can skyrocket.

Sometimes it depends on where you live.  CLosaer to the water or a naval base you might see more ship models.

My opinion is that if a man is into modeling, ships are the quintessential expression of that. Men build ship models. Maybe it's because they lend themselve so well to a home's decor. You can get away with displaying a ship model easier because it hearkens back to the classic age of men at sea. If you've built a model ship, no one looks askance at you if you tell them.

That being said, the last ship kit I tried ended up in the garbage. Now, granted, this is because it was a marginal kit anyway--Dragon's old Ticonderoga class CG. I also handicap myself because I can't afford the nice new molds, and I'm sure that factor affects how appealing the genre is. An easy build increases the chance of more ships appearing finished on the shelf. 

So, in my own case, the challenge of a ship kit puts me off. I have a few 1/350 submarines in the display case, but have yet to put a surface vessel in there. I want to, because, again, manliness. Every guy needs a ship kit on his bench.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Ration that man some rum!

I am building a Dragon 1/700 carrier. I have literally taken the thing back apart twice now. Can't wait to get back to my Revell yacht model.

As a kid, I built a LOT more ships than what I have built as an adult. The market seems to have changed/evolved. Ship kits have gotten for more complex and pricey in the past 30+ years. Back then there was a more varied selection of kit types, and far more "entry level" kits for younger modelers. Now kits are more high end and in more specific areas and scales: mostly WWII, and some current types in two primary scales-1/700 and 1/350. Selection is great nowadays, but it would be nice to see other areas of shipping covered as well as more low cost/entry level type kits to attract younger modelers to the genre. I know folks argue about the high cost of a kit working out in hours spent vs dollars paid, but the initial costs are often quite steep and I suspect that is the biggest obstacle for many. The second being display space- anything bigger than a WWII destroyer starts to eat up a good amount of shelf display space.

I think the ship sections in four of the five shops in the greater Seattle area are healthier than I remember 20-30 years ago.  Somebody must be buying them.  Even though I only build 1/700, I think they sell more of the big ol' 1/350 ships, and that draws more attention to the ship sections.

I try to say that I build 1/700 ships, 1/24 cars, 1/1200 sailing ships and Napoleonic 1/32 figures, but I find that I get focused on one area or the other for a few years and don't get any work done on the others.  Right now, it has been five or six years since I built anything besides a ship.  Between the nice new kits coming out and the really interesting, though clunkier older resin ships that I haven't built yet, I have tons of projects to work with and I am still slower than molasses.

Rick

Surface_Line

I think the ship sections in four of the five shops in the greater Seattle area are healthier than I remember 20-30 years ago.  Somebody must be buying them.  Even though I only build 1/700, I think they sell more of the big ol' 1/350 ships, and that draws more attention to the ship sections.

 

I try to say that I build 1/700 ships, 1/24 cars, 1/1200 sailing ships and Napoleonic 1/32 figures, but I find that I get focused on one area or the other for a few years and don't get any work done on the others.  Right now, it has been five or six years since I built anything besides a ship.  Between the nice new kits coming out and the really interesting, though clunkier older resin ships that I haven't built yet, I have tons of projects to work with and I am still slower than molasses.

Rick

 

Hey just curious have you visited skyway models???

Sure I've visited Skyway Models.  It is a great resource for the Seattle area modeler, along with Galaxy Hobby in the north end.  Three Hobbytown USA stores offer varying amounts of support. 

My interest in modelling is mostly non-military. Occasionally there's a military subject (such as an interesting plane) that I build, but mostly I like working civilian machinery: merchant ships, oil tankers, civilian planes, training aircraft, ordinary people's cars ... and so almost everything I like is out of fashion, and the manstream of model-building, which is mostly military-minded, isn't all that interested.

For me, that isn't a problem at all. I just have to work harder to find kits to build, subjects to model, and so finding something that interests me is part of the fun. I have to track down my modelling subjects – they're probably not going to be sitting there on the shelves of any hobby shop I enter – and so tracking down and researching the next model comes with the territory I have chosen to wander.

For all of the modelling mainstreamers building their Spitfire and Hurricanes, Bismarcks and Yamatos, F18s and Blackbirds, life is a bit easier, and you have plenty of friends doing the same and enjoying the fun with you. Good luck to you all, and happy modelling!

For anyone who chooses the road less travelled, not only in modelling but also in life, it has its own pitfalls and pleasures. But for me it is the only way I want to follow ...

And so when it comes to ships, if you think ships ain't as popular as they should be, what exactly is the problem? All you have to do is track down an interesting subject, spend time tracking it down, then do it justice. As the football coach once said "It's a simple game."

I have the usual suspects in my stash, Bismark, Hood, Missouri, Dreadnought and the last Tamiya Yamato I even have a couple of the Italeri 1/35s as well. To be honest they are being saved till I get better at modeling or I retire as they will take a while to build and I want to do them justice.

They also seem to take up a lot of room, well the two 1/35's will and appear so delicate I still wonder how I'll attach the railings on them

Phil

Hi;

     I don't think they are less popular . There is this though  .If you look around what do you have ? Supply ships and one Box boat ( the Colombo Express ) in 1/700 . The size - 1/700 , and what's available are killers for lots of folks .

     The selection is indeed small even to Tugs , Coast Guard patrol craft and of course Tankers and Passenger ships ( those since 1960 ) . Even the old ones are hard to find . Of course there's those ugly Hotels on Barges ( my term for the newest (liners ? )

     The really beautiful liners and freighters are almost non - existant .

   Now other civilian craft , if you want them , are available as large Wooden Wonders . That means ( I Wonder if I can build that , it's Wood .) They aren't cheap either and don't fit the new style mantels anyway .They are too big as a rule .

      That's how I got into building paper models .Trouble there is , most are models of European ships and boats . Very little for the American Merchant service . That's how Tanker - Builder as a handle came about .

      I use a technique borrowed from paper and build Tankers , Freighters , Liners , workboats and motoryachts , and everything that floats , that way . Also they are either railroad scales ( 1/160( " N " scale  , 1/87 ( H.O. scale) 1/48 ( "O " scale ) and once in a while , 1/72 scale .

    The interest seems to be in those objects that make war on the high seas .Whether the Age of Sail or Modern .There are few Clippers , Whalers or plain old cargo ships from the Age of Sail . Once in a while in the odd scales you will get a smattering of Civilian stuff from Japan or China , mostly ships you've never heard of . Those are all modern too or at least within the last twenty years .

     Revell used to do some nice ships like the S.S.United States , Oriana and Canberra from P and O and the Brasil/Brazil - Argentina , from Moore - Mc Cormack lines . And of course the ubiquitis  "Hawaiian Pilot " a Post war  " Stick Ship " ( a Merchant Term ) employed by Matson Navigation , who also operated the Mariposa , Monterey and the Matsonia and Lurline cruise ships ,    and the Nuclear Freighter Savannah operator unknown .  Must not forget the Queens ( Mary and Elizabeth ) done by both Revell and Otaki with a smattering from other companies .

 Hmmm . That's it .

    They had an old 50s era Chris Craft Tri-Cabin for years and even though it didn't happen , turned it into a " Sport Fisherman " ( no Way in real life ! ) . Years ago OTAKI had a 40' Coast Guard Inland patrol craft . OTAKI is the company which did the modern ships no one ever heard of . From molds of the same ( motorized for the domestic market ) in Japan .  All 1/400 except the patrol boat at 1/32 scale .

 So If you don't want to do Paper or Scratch - Build , you are kind of limited on what you can get , if you can even find it . I forgot to mention Lindberg's offerings in work boats and yachts  very large , except for the Chris Craft 30' express Cruiser ( a small Thirties / Forties cabin cruiser . It came Motorized and Non-Motorized ). they originally , Except the " Chris Craft Constellation " started life as PYRO kits many eons ago it seems .

       So there you have it . Except the " Hemi Hydro " and the hard to find " Bass Boat from Ranger " ( Two versions , by Revell ) there isn't much out there . Sorry but it's true . That's why ship modelers search like detectives at model shows where there are a lot of vendors . Trouble is , the price may equal or exceed what you would pay for a new kit of the U.S.S. North Carolina from Trumpeter , $ 225.00 with P.E.

     Don't let closeness to water fool you though . There  are very many folks crazy about ships and boats that have never dipped a toe in either coast's salty waters ! I have friends from Montana who are just bonkers about the old Liners from the forties and fifties !                Tanker - Builder

Great discussion. I remember as late as the mid 80's seeing tons of naval models. I do see a great reduction in stock in current hobby shops and even at modeling shows where you will find rows of tables filled with aircraft and armor models but just a few ships.

The detail quality has improved  in the last few years and some really impressive models in the 1/700 and 1/350 scale can be built. Another scale that would be good to expand a selection is the 1/444 line. Currently several submarines are available with some outstanding details.

I certainly find them fascinating but they just seem like a LOT of work. For a sailing ship like HMS Victory you've got piles of rigging and for a more modern ship like USS North Carolina you almost have to add piles of PE rails and other parts. It takes me forever just to build a 1/48th aircraft or 1/35th tank, I don't think I'd have the patience or stamina to ever finish even a 1/700th ship model. 

My hats off to you guys that can pull it off! 

I suppose it's true that model ships are bigger projects than most other kit subjects... and doubly so when you get into the aftermarket. As I spend lots of time in that area of the hobby I can vouch that the bar is set especially high among shipbuilders too.

The bar is very high for shipmodel builders, because even though they are building plastic kits, the build quaility can (and often will) be compared to something the model viewer has seen in a museum. The detail standards, etc., are set very high and can demand a time and effort beyond many modeler's pain thresholds.

The only work log I've kept on a build was for the Revell big Constitution I constructed 30+ years ago.  It took 500+ hours over almost two years to finish it. At the time I was hanging around with a bunch of shipmodel builders which included Dr. Tilley, so my motivation was high.  Everybody's models took a long time, so by their standards no one was in a rush.

I believe the one thing that makes ships somewhat different than other model subjects and the details required is that a ship model represents a unique one of a kind thing.  Yes, there are ships of the same class that look superficially the same, but as a shipmodeler can tell you, no two ships are identical.

I can build a F6F Hellcat fighter, make sure I have the canopy and a couple of other points correct for a -3 or -5 variant, apply some decals and representative weathering and I'm done.  

To do a shipmodel justice, that type of build may not be considered enough. A WW II aircraft carrier went through rapid changes during the war. What paint scheme did it have at what time, what was the antenna suite like during the spring or fall of 1944?  Did the air group have SBDs or SBC-5s?

While that amount of research could be applied to a Hellcat fighter model project, few modelers would expect it.  Did Campbell's F6F-5 fighter have heavy exhaust stains during the "Turkey Shoot?"  It could make a challenging project, because details like that may be hard to track down.

Many ship modelers would believe that level of research is expected of them for a project. It is the nature of the beast.

Is it necessary? No. Everyone should build their projects they way they want to.  No modeler should be surprised though, if building a shipmodel, that tradition requires a higher order of work than other projects. It comes with the deal.

Thank You Mike :

      So few folks understand that ship - modeling is held to a very high standard . Now there's the rub , many would build just for the pleasure , and should . I have always felt that ships have a character all their own .

     it's this character that we must bring out .Then there's the Scratch - Build . Like many other things it can go all the way . Now that means working features . Ships can have so much more in that department .  that's reserved for the larger scales , but , it's still possible to have some features that work in 1/700 if you're so inclined .

      Research is paramount in this field too .Thing is , Unlike , say the aforementioned F-6-F there are thousands of variants . The Square Bridge Fletchers had many gunnery suites changed from the time of launch till they got to theater . Sometimes two or three ! Before ! they got past inclination tests .

 There are five iterations of the North Carolina that I know of .There may be more , but , that's all I found at the time !

    Think about the U.S.S. Constitution . She's changed many times since she was built of the finest Oak , America had to offer . It is a fact she is probably Not more than 20% original now . This is all part of keeping the old girl in seaworthy shape and is the nature of all wooden craft .

 We have ships that are made of iron and steel .These now are showing the burden of time . Sometimes changes are made to some fits that can be used to lighten ship to preserve their ability to even stay afloat .  And still be accurate in total appearance and historical rig .       Now there is the  rub . But when you do a ship you have to have a raft of research , photos ( if possible ) and plans in the scale you're working in and Patience , lot's of it .

 This covers everything from plastic to wood and everything in between .     T.B.

So very well said T.B.!

Mike & TB,
I'm not buying it.  While there are a few (let's say hypothetically a thousand) builders who want to get the color exact to match the rig - correct bulges, aa guns, radars, cranes, etc, we are a drop in the bucket.  For a hobby to go on healthily, we need to support all the guys that build the Arizona straight out of the Revell box without worrying about grey/blue or correct rurret top colors.

Manufacturers are not doing a public service, they are trying to make a profit.  Every time.  If we can correct the "glaring inaccuracies" and use the exact colors, then we are safely above the norm.  But if we tell every guy who wants to make a model of the aircraft carrier his uncle served on that "no, there isn't any kit you can use to make that.  You would need to do major surgery to get a Wisconsin kit from that Iowa.  You can't build your Dad's FRAM because the only kit available has a wildly incorrect bilge keel, etc, etc", then we are not serving the hobby well. 

Or were you only discussing the hobby in the way that this small group of accuracy-driven modelers lives?  I believe that the way we build our models is very special and the ship-modeling hobby doesn't really need us as much as we need it.

Ship modelers include guys who say "gosh look at all the guns and airplanes on that painting on the boxtop."  And then while they are building it (straight from the box), they learn that there was a really big war 60 years ago and on and on.  Those guys are the bread and butter that keep Revell and Trumpeter and all the rest churning out kits where we can work our magic.

Sorry - this was not supposed to be a rant.

Rick

Never really cared for HobbyTown, sure they have some nice stuff but I don't know about the stores.

I recently built 1/350 Prince of Wales. It's first time I've built a ship. And I simply fell in love with ships. I'm a fan of WWII aircrafts but something just hooked me in with ships. Maybe the the size, maybe the details maybe the soul... Here take a look...

I think the main problem with the model builders is that they stay away from building ship for many reasons. It's different to build, it's a challange in mind. I think ships must be more encouraged, that's why I like Finescale better when a ship is on cover.

I find here in my Home Town of Brisbane Australia we have some Hobby Shops that are very well stocked with Ship Kits from most Manufacturers. They can get expensive but you pays your Money and get what you want. I look at it money well Spent versus the Time to build a Ship Kit. I usually work in 700 and 350 Scales. It is up to each individual Modeller to decide how much work they wish to put into a Kit. This could be A/M Sets and a Great Paint Scheme or simply OOB.. Agreed that they can take longer to build then some other Genres but the decision of the Builder what they want to buy and what to build is entirely up to them. I know that the % of Ship Modellers is very small in the general Model Community but I find some of the other Genre Builders come up and say that it is too difficult for them to build a Ship Kit to a great standard due to the Size and the complexity.

While I build all genres of models, I consider ships to be my specialty.  But in spite of this, I build fewer ships than models of other genres.  Why?  Because ships are major projects. I have built ship models with over two thousand parts.  I can finish most models in four to six weeks, or even quicker.  But ships take me anywhere from two or three months to as much as a year.  Thus, the length of time it takes me to build a ship model means I buy fewer. If other ship modelers face the same problem, it seems reasonable that hobby shops would sell fewer kits than other genres.

While the shelf areas in my LHSs are comparable to other genres, the boxes are quite a bit bigger, so they do contain fewer kits, and fewer numbers of kits of same item.

Also, in my model clubs, I find some folks stay away from ship models due to the long build time.

All this being said, I am thrilled with the quality of modern ship kits (I have been building ship models for over sixty years), and the wide range of subjects compared with long ago.  Certainly better to be a ship modeler today than half a century ago.  The one area where I notice a decline is in scratch building of ships, especially sailing ships, reflected by difficulties in buying fittings like blocks, deadeyes, belaying pins, small eyelets, etc.

Rick,

I didn't say that all shipmodeling had to be held at a higher standard from the point of view of an individual modeler. That individual can be his model anyway he wants.

Shipmodels are held to higher standards than most other types of available kits, etc.

Don is correct, I believe, in saying that ship kits don't "feed" the industry as well as aircraft and vechicles precisely because building ship models take longer.  Fewer kits are sold because each project tend to be a long one.

Compromises in ship "correctness" will always be with us. Without some heavy scratch work, which maybe beyond the individual's skill level, showing that Fletcher-class at a given point in its career, may not be possible for a given build.  More often than not though, the builder, when displaying his model or posting photos will list his reasons for the differences.

It doesn't mean it HAS to be that way with ships, but the trend to explain the compromises is there. Aircraft, etc., modelers can be as detailed too, but the tradition doesn't seem to hold them to the level of detail and accuracy that ships are held to.  

Perhaps the hobby is worse off for it, but I can't deny that it is there and personally subscribe to it.

A modeler building the cruiser Newport News for a relative that served aboard the ship after the Vietnam gun turret explosion would be motivated to show the turret with the missing gun barrel.  Would the same modeler have the same motivation to model the parking lot dings on a model of the same relative's '57 Chevy? Probably not, although it maybe fun if he did.

Bottom line is for everyone to keep modeling fun.

ikar01

Sometimes it depends on where you live.  CLosaer to the water or a naval base you might see more ship models.

 

that's funny. i live in colorado and ROCKY MOUNTAIN SHIPWRIGHTS is one of the largest ship clubs in the country. 

I am more bothered by the ratio of naval vs commercial ship kits than I am the number of ship kits vs other genre.  But then, it is probably about the same as the number of civil aircraft kits vs military ones.  I like to build the stuff I see around me, not the exotic stuff only seen at a few military bases.  There are some landmark historic civil aircraft that have no decent kits available, while about every possible version of fighter planes is available.  Same thing with ships- there are ships/boats in wide everyday use that must be scratchbuilt if you want to do a model.

Rick;

   You said what needed to be said as well . I see no rant here . I can safely say that the example you gave was good . For a beautiful model .The Revell ARIZONA oob.or the Buckley or Forrest Sherman begs this opinion . Just build them , they are beautiful right as they are .       T.B.            P.S. There is a terrible shortage of civilian subjects in suitable scales though .