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Political Correctness in Modeling

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gjw
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Saint Anthony, North Dakota
Political Correctness in Modeling
Posted by gjw on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:52 PM

I was curious as to anyone seeing a trend that has enveloped much of the Western world starting to creep into the modeling community. I have both experienced this at a project fair and seen some comments on this forum in which someone was ridiculed for doing a diorama of the 13th SS Handschar. I am not looking for a debate but rather a dialogue with the community as to any experiences.

Thank You!

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, November 12, 2015 11:16 PM

I would not call my own view towards the SS as PC, but I do not care for most SS subjects. The 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions being the exception (as far as I know from my limited knowledge of those two units). In my personal view as a vet, most SS divisions sacrificed their honor as soldiers with the war crimes they committed. And the Waffen SS did so as a matter of policy, not exception. I'm not talking the Einsatzgruppen, but actual combat units. From the campaign in France of 1940 to the final days in 1945 SS units routinely slaughtered prisoners and non combatants. They lacked the soldierly honor that other members of the Wehrmacht in WWII did exemplify in thier refusal to implement National Socialist policies.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:22 AM

Stikpusher, didn't you serve in KFOR? These messes just seem to never go away.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:30 AM

No, I was a "errand boy" for IFOR/SFOR after they folded up house. Sent by gorcery clerks, to collect a bill. And no, the messes do not go away. It has kind of colored my view of things more so since then.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:33 AM

gjw

I was curious as to anyone seeing a trend that has enveloped much of the Western world starting to creep into the modeling community. I have both experienced this at a project fair and seen some comments on this forum in which someone was ridiculed for doing a diorama of the 13th SS Handschar. I am not looking for a debate but rather a dialogue with the community as to any experiences.

Thank You!

 

 

Wel, i seem to have missed this dio and the comments made towards it. I have not recieved any sort of ridicule for my own builds. I am certainly not in favour of PC but i don't see it creeping into the hobby. I have taken some of my dio's to a couple of shows as well as the monthly meeting of the model club and never been told its not appropriate or had any negative somments.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, November 13, 2015 1:04 AM

Hello!

While I understand the concept behind Political Corectness and I don't want to insult anybody, every now and then I encounter people who want to tell me what I am allowed to model and what I'm not. The so called communists in Poland pre-1989 didn't allow the modellers to build German subjects. After the system change some people tried to tell the modellers not to build the soviet units, especially the NKVD, Smersh and so on. Many were also outraged by the models of Pope John Paul II. In Germany you run into problem when you put a swastika on your model. Well I think such things are just awful - not only do they take away my freedom of expression, but they also show a complete lack of understanding of what model building is all about. If I choose to show a part of well researched history in my model, I should have the right to do so. Even if I a fellow modeller chooses to model some fictional subject (Fantasy, '46, Mecha) this should be considerer a work of art, where we need some freedom of expression. Finally, there's something everybody can do - if you don't like it, don't look at it.

Thanks for reading, good luck with your modelling projects and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Friday, November 13, 2015 4:26 AM

Pawel

Hello!

While I understand the concept behind Political Corectness and I don't want to insult anybody....

In Germany you run into problem when you put a swastika on your model....  

but they also show a complete lack of understanding of what model building is all about....

PaweÅ‚ 

As Pawel States very well, I don't intentionally seek to offend, nor am I offended by the depictions, provided they are grossly offensive.

In Germany, (SFAIK) it is legal to use the Hakenkreutz in it's correct historical setting, but not to glorify it.

In practice this means that Model Mfrs either omit the Hakenkreutz or 'half' them, if they want to sell kits in Germany.

It also means that German Modellers who wish to display certain colour schemes in public, also omit the marking, or put a tent over them...

& then there's the line, 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Yadda-ya... 

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, November 13, 2015 6:39 AM

If the vehicle I'm modeling comes with SS markings that look cool,then I will use them.I guess the only one that I went out of my way to do was Michael Wittman's 007 and crew.But my builds are for me,I don't display them at work,so I can't say I have expierienced this.But personally I have no problems with SS vehicles or figures.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: The cornfields of Ohio
Posted by crockett on Friday, November 13, 2015 7:18 AM

If it is somehow perceived that we endorse evil when we model historical subjects, which seems to be the case lately, then, those perceptions are mistaken. I find it ridiculous that the swastika decal is banned in model kits marketed in Germany, for example.

While stationed in Germany in the 70's, I had many conversations with many a veteran Landser about their experiences. I tried to put myself in those shoes, so to speak, as a young man to understand the dynamic of the German people at the time.

The grand error, in my view, is not acknowledging, and discussing, what our collective history really is with younger generations. Not to live in the past, but to clearly realize what has happened in our many conflicts both domestic and foreign. The only way to move forward IMO.

We are motivated in our hobby, to re-create realistic subject matter because it's interesting, not because we want to glorify a political philosophy. We need to replicate our modeling subjects accurately, so as to judge the quality of the work, leaving behind a "political" burden that has no place in what we do.

Peace out......

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by MRME on Friday, November 13, 2015 7:35 AM

yes I have, I was on a sister site to this one, different mag and you can't post a picture of the General lee and the rebel flag, a model of a german tank with a swatzstika on it WTF, people, Its just a model get over yourself, Political politness what is that just another form of sensorship, I asked a few different times about this and was told that those were offensive images, Huh ????  So to answer the original question yes I have, and it just does'nt make any sense to me.Censored

anyone needing/wanting info about me contact me a richduddy@gmail.com. I only give info about myself on a need to know basis.

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, November 13, 2015 7:59 AM

MRME

...........I was on a sister site to this one, different mag and you can't post a picture of the General lee and the rebel flag, ...............

 

FSM forum members recently had a prolonged discussion about the rebel flag and the General Lee. Whistling
BTW.............Chill out............that smiley is not whistling Dixie...Wink
Tags: General Lee
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, November 13, 2015 8:55 AM

As someone who lived through WW2, though too young to fight in it (I had family who did), I find it hard to have much reverence for any WW2 German modeling subjects.  Maybe I was just too susceptible to our own propogranda.  But when I read history I don't think that is the problem.  The Nazi empire was truly evil.

Sad thing is, we as humans did not learn anything. So much genicide and ethnic cleansing continued after the war, and continues yet today!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Friday, November 13, 2015 9:42 AM

Jon_a_its
 
Pawel

Hello!

While I understand the concept behind Political Corectness and I don't want to insult anybody....

In Germany you run into problem when you put a swastika on your model....  

but they also show a complete lack of understanding of what model building is all about....

PaweÅ‚ 

 

As Pawel States very well, I don't intentionally seek to offend, nor am I offended by the depictions, provided they are grossly offensive.

In Germany, (SFAIK) it is legal to use the Hakenkreutz in it's correct historical setting, but not to glorify it.

In practice this means that Model Mfrs either omit the Hakenkreutz or 'half' them, if they want to sell kits in Germany.

It also means that German Modellers who wish to display certain colour schemes in public, also omit the marking, or put a tent over them...

& then there's the line, 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Yadda-ya... 

 

 

I completely agree with you 2000% !!! Here's the sad thing, schools and colleges nowadays have become more politically correct themselves, it's scary.

A long, long while back, I remember reading something that some folks want to do away with our U.S. Constitution. They claim it's "outdated." Really? You really want to go there?

gjw
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Saint Anthony, North Dakota
Posted by gjw on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:12 AM

The comment was not so much calling them evil (which is entirely correct by the number of attrocities committed by them) it was more of a comment ridiculing the modeler for even painting the 1/35 dragon set. I completely agree with your reasoning and views on the SS as a whole but it seems people today are to concerned with feelings than the truth on certain points of history.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:21 AM

Lot of venting here, when the original poster has neither displayed the dio he is referring to, or any reaction to it, or why the reactions if in fact they exist, "ridiculed" it. And if those "ridicules" were somehow PC.

Short of accusing them of trolling, I would say that going into the old PC argument over such thin stuff is a little premature.

I went back and dug it up. This was a Dragon kit marketed as "German Mountain Troops", all three terms not really factual. It was discussed on many modeling forums, not only this one. I found two here. The more recent, by Model Maniac, got a negative reaction from yours truly about a complete lack of taste, and insensitivity. But as Stikpusher said at the beginning, disgust for the Waffen SS (which these guys are only even marginally affiliated with) is a legitimate obsevration, and an utter disgust for Muslim civilian murderers, which these guys were, were created to do and focussed on Catholics and Jews, certainly is something that needs to be said. In particular because the original poster of that older thread has a habit of commissioning builds from others and throwing them up, without any idea what they represent. I got pillow pummeled a little , but wasn't accused of being PC, just thin skinned.

The earlier thread I found did contain a fair amount of silliness, by others, to the effect that Shriners have RED fez'es, not Feld Grau ones, and where are the clown cars. That's just humor.

The absurdity of the whole culture of accusations of "PC" are that first of all, most opinions labeled as such, left or right, are fundamentally legitimate ones. In other words, besides being "PC", they also happen to be "C". Life is full of gray areas, which I wouldn't expect a 19 year old to understand, and shouting down people for what they advocate is a bad trend, though our poster here has not done so.

Anyone wishing to understand or debate why Germany outlaws the display of the Swastika should start by reading the excellent Wiki article on the subject, and then perhaps reflect a little on why that group of people, subjected to what they were, need us to tell them how to self govern.

And last, my observation of Stikpushers service was only slightly off- same conflict, different era. And the man humbles himself where no humility is necessary. Anyone who risks their life in a foreign country to insert themselves between the forces and counterforces of ethnic cleansing is in my opinion a hero. That's my point.

These forums are FULL of Waffen SS, IJN, Fascist Italian and whatever else subjects that people enjoy modeling and knowing about. Most go unremarked on, and rightly so. People model that, it's their right of course. I was tempted to compare the subject referrenced to a dio of an ISIS guy standing behind someone on their knees, but that's unfair so I won't. But do read up on the history of the 13th SS and consider that it might be beyond the reason of someones stomach to take here. There are forum rules after all concerning such things, in order to have a more inclusive readership.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 13, 2015 10:22 AM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour

 

 
Jon_a_its
 
Pawel

Hello!

While I understand the concept behind Political Corectness and I don't want to insult anybody....

In Germany you run into problem when you put a swastika on your model....  

but they also show a complete lack of understanding of what model building is all about....

PaweÅ‚ 

 

As Pawel States very well, I don't intentionally seek to offend, nor am I offended by the depictions, provided they are grossly offensive.

In Germany, (SFAIK) it is legal to use the Hakenkreutz in it's correct historical setting, but not to glorify it.

In practice this means that Model Mfrs either omit the Hakenkreutz or 'half' them, if they want to sell kits in Germany.

It also means that German Modellers who wish to display certain colour schemes in public, also omit the marking, or put a tent over them...

& then there's the line, 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.

Those who do not know history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Yadda-ya... 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with you 2000% !!! Here's the sad thing, schools and colleges nowadays have become more politically correct themselves, it's scary.

A long, long while back, I remember reading something that some folks want to do away with our U.S. Constitution. They claim it's "outdated." Really? You really want to go there?

 

Back off on the politics, BS. Those folks after all did lose the Civil War.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:03 AM

gjw

The comment was not so much calling them evil (which is entirely correct by the number of attrocities committed by them) it was more of a comment ridiculing the modeler for even painting the 1/35 dragon set. I completely agree with your reasoning and views on the SS as a whole but it seems people today are to concerned with feelings than the truth on certain points of history.

 

Can you post a link to the diorama in question. The only one i can find.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/t/114545.aspx?page=2#1183309

is 6 years old, the links are broken and i don't see the comments you are reffering to.

And i will repeat, i have neither seen or recieved any comments of the kind you are reffering to and i build German subjects and display German flag and insignia on them, including SS markings.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:05 AM

History is history. It's not our jobs as modellers to change that. It's a shame some would like to, through censorship. I'll just model whatever subject or controversial item as I darn well please to as a reflection of history, art and personal freedom to do so. It's just sad if others don't 'get it', especially if they are in this hobby. However, I don't see this as a big issue. Yet, anyway.

-Tom

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:24 AM

Folks seem to be getting a bit too intense around here.

Even a brief review of history clearly demonstrates that human societies rise and fall ; some with greater rapidity than others.

It's simply that time for our society.Big Smile No worries.Wink

Of course, it may put a significant crimp in the number of model kits being designed and sold.Hmm

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:31 AM

Regarding "Wiki" articles. I would advise being very, very cautious of the content of Wiki articles.

The warning against believing everything posted on the internet also applies to Wiki articles.

Per Wiki policy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies_and_guidelines

 Wikipedia is free content that anyone can use, edit, and distribute.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:48 AM

That particular Wiki article is a good one that has a lot of footnotes that also hold up. Please spare me the lecture, Sprue. You know I don't just grab stuff off the net.

Panzer, no one is censoring or banning this. The OP here threw out the usual "I hate PC" stuff, but didn't/ can't produce anything to back up his claim. Just the usual, world going to hell stuff.

Bish, here's the two on FSM I could find.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/t/114545.aspx?page=1

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/p/157591/1721093.aspx#1721093

The first one seems generally pretty complimentary. No PC, no ridicule. The second one has the pictures you are looking for, Bish. Also I wouldn't say it was complimentary in response, because MM's dios don't much get that since they are really sloppy. But certainly not PCish, and no ridicule.

The OP here just stirred it up, but there's nothing, repeat nothing I see to back his rant.

I'm done here, leave this mess to the rest of you.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:52 AM

Actually, I have no way of knowing what folks around here use as references.

I still stand by my admonition, despite any one forum member's preferences.

Sounds like somebody needs a tasty Haggis for dinner.Whistling

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:53 AM

Political correctness is nothing more than an attack on free speech, driven by the claim that the person complaining has been offended.

It's a means of controlling the terms of any argument, so you can shut down your opponent without actually countering his argument.  You simply say that you're offended, and convince everyone else that the content you don't like must be suppressed.

It's one step up from ad hominem attacks, in terms of conducting an argument (By "argument", I mean, "reasoned debate to prove or disprove a point", not the vernacular, "shouting match").  If you can't defend your position with logic, you just call your opponent a name, and that's that.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:54 AM

It's true the other way around too, Baron.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:56 AM

PC comments in modeling... have I experienced any myself on any builds? No. And I build stuff from any nation and armed service that interests me. Have I heard any comments at any clubs or contests that I attended? Well the closest thing that I have heard was a youngster asking if some nude nose art was appropriate. I explained to him that if the real aircraft displayed that artwork, yes it was because us modelers like to represent reality in miniature accurately. And that made sense to him. I think as a whole us modelers understand that concept quite well. It's the rest of folks who see our work that may not get that concept.

Getting back on to WWII, just have a look at international relations today between Japan, China, and Korea. Both China and Korea are quite vociferous towards Japan regarding Japanese conduct in those countries during and before the war. Study of history there shows that Imperial Japan did horrible things there as national policy, and to this day remains reluctant to speak honestly about those deeds. Yet, there is minimal outcry regarding the rising sun banner under which those actions were perpetrated. And Chinese & Korean model companies will turn out oodles of WWII German subject kits: land sea, and air. While only a small handful of Japanese subjects are put forth by those same companies. Bad feelings still run deep there.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:57 AM

GMorrison

That particular Wiki article is a good one that has a lot of footnotes that also hold up. Please spare me the lecture, Sprue. You know I don't just grab stuff off the net.

Panzer, no one is censoring or banning this. The OP here threw out the usual "I hate PC" stuff, but didn't/ can't produce anything to back up his claim. Just the usual, world going to hell stuff.

Bish, here's the two on FSM I could find.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/t/114545.aspx?page=1

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/p/157591/1721093.aspx#1721093

The first one seems generally pretty complimentary. No PC, no ridicule. The second one has the pictures you are looking for, Bish. Also I wouldn't say it was complimentary in response, because MM's dios don't much get that since they are really sloppy. But certainly not PCish, and no ridicule.

The OP here just stirred it up, but there's nothing, repeat nothing I see to back his rant.

I'm done here, leave this mess to the rest of you.

 

GMorrison

That particular Wiki article is a good one that has a lot of footnotes that also hold up. Please spare me the lecture, Sprue. You know I don't just grab stuff off the net.

Panzer, no one is censoring or banning this. The OP here threw out the usual "I hate PC" stuff, but didn't/ can't produce anything to back up his claim. Just the usual, world going to hell stuff.

Bish, here's the two on FSM I could find.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/t/114545.aspx?page=1

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/p/157591/1721093.aspx#1721093

The first one seems generally pretty complimentary. No PC, no ridicule. The second one has the pictures you are looking for, Bish. Also I wouldn't say it was complimentary in response, because MM's dios don't much get that since they are really sloppy. But certainly not PCish, and no ridicule.

The OP here just stirred it up, but there's nothing, repeat nothing I see to back his rant.

I'm done here, leave this mess to the rest of you.

 

GMorrison

That particular Wiki article is a good one that has a lot of footnotes that also hold up. Please spare me the lecture, Sprue. You know I don't just grab stuff off the net.

Panzer, no one is censoring or banning this. The OP here threw out the usual "I hate PC" stuff, but didn't/ can't produce anything to back up his claim. Just the usual, world going to hell stuff.

Bish, here's the two on FSM I could find.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/t/114545.aspx?page=1

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/19/p/157591/1721093.aspx#1721093

The first one seems generally pretty complimentary. No PC, no ridicule. The second one has the pictures you are looking for, Bish. Also I wouldn't say it was complimentary in response, because MM's dios don't much get that since they are really sloppy. But certainly not PCish, and no ridicule.

The OP here just stirred it up, but there's nothing, repeat nothing I see to back his rant.

I'm done here, leave this mess to the rest of you.

 

Ye, that first link is the one i found. And i concur, this seems to be somthing about nothing. And there is nothing i hate more than the PC brigade. If it was there i would have seen it. And if it was here, i would certainly have been the victim of it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:01 PM

stikpusher

PC comments in modeling... have I experienced any myself on any builds? No. And I build stuff from any nation and armed service that interests me. Have I heard any comments at any clubs or contests that I attended? Well the closest thing that I have heard was a youngster asking if some nude nose art was appropriate. I explained to him that if the real aircraft displayed that artwork, yes it was because us modelers like to represent reality in miniature accurately. And that made sense to him. I think as a whole us modelers understand that concept quite well. It's the rest of folks who see our work that may not get that concept.

Getting back on to WWII, just have a look at international relations today between Japan, China, and Korea. Both China and Japan are quite vociferous towards Japan regarding Japanese conduct in those countries during and before the war. Study of history there shows that Imperial Japan did horrible things there as national policy, and to this day remains reluctant to speak honestly about those deeds. Yet, there is minimal outcry regarding the rising sun banner under which those actions were perpetrated. And Chinese & Korean model companies will turn out oodles of WWII German subject kits: land sea, and air. While only a small handful of Japanese subjects are put forth by those same companies. Bad feelings still run deep there.

 

Of coiurse, much the same can be said about many nations. The UK is cerainly good at white washing our history, which certainly has a lot not to be proud of.

But i am sure we can all find things we find offensive or don't approve of. I have seen some posts/threads on here i take issue with. But, given the nature of the forum, i simply take the option of stayuing out of them. If you don't like it, you don't have to look, thats the way i see it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Friday, November 13, 2015 12:58 PM

GMorrison

It's true the other way around too, Baron.

 

 

Yup. Two opinions don't make it right or wrong. It's call Freedom of Speech - politically correct or not.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, November 13, 2015 2:11 PM

Bish, aside from Iceland, I really can't think of any nation that does not have some blood on their hands from the past. Boiled down, it's simply human nature to be violent with one another and enforce our will. Otherwise we as a species would have perished long ago. The big difference between the past and now is that now we have weaponry that can eliminate our entire species. The planet would survive, and some other life form likely evolve over time to become dominant. But we would be gone.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by Cat Daddy on Friday, November 13, 2015 2:24 PM

One thing that always seems to get left out, or forgotten from, these discussions of offense and political correctness is the idea of context. Context is very important. I recently had a discussion with my girlfriend about whether or not to put swastikas on the tails of Luftwaffe models. We both determined that historical accuracy was more important so I ordered a third-party decal sheet. So, I'll have swastikas on my airplanes, and it's on the cover of my copy of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," but I in no way condone what the *** did nor do I find anything admirable about their policies. For me, in context, the decals belong on the models but what they represent belongs nowhere else in my life.

I have similar feelings about the confederate flag. It belongs in museums and on historical models, but governmental entities shouldn't be flying it. As for individuals, there are First Amendment considerations I don't want to delve into at the moment. I'm a bit of a Constitutional Law geek so I could go on for far longer than many of you would want to read.

Anyway, context is important. Too important to leave out of the discussion.

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