panel lines

There's no need to post another thread. As I said in the first one, if you don't understand, or if you have a question, just ask! We're here to help. 

DO NOT USE FUTURE!! I know that there are those who use this stuff, but I HIGHLY DON'T RECOMMEND IT! This is floor polish - not paint, and therefore its' formulation isn't suitable for modeling regardless of what other peoples' experience may be. It turns yellow over time, and it can ruin your model!!It also makes painting it harder, and there is no real remover for it as others have either destroyed their decals using it, or have destroyed their paint surface with it so I say use KRYLON clear coat which IS formulated for use with PLASTIC, WOOD, AND METAL.  You can use a gloss which doesn't allow for the wash to either stain, or run all over your model. The surface tension, and glossiness keep the wash from being absorbed into it, and helps with the flow of the wash to keep it in the panel lines. So the answer is NO concerning the use of FLOOR WAX/POLISH. Use either KRYLON brand clearcoat, or TAMIYA, or TESTORS, or something that IS a paint finish, and NOT something designed for use with floors like waxes, or polishes which is what Future truly is! Go ahead and seal your panel lines if you're going to either do a weathered look, or if you're going to do other colours for a "patch work quilt" look as if it has had repairs over time. I've never used a clear coat with panel lines as they're supposed to look oily so a clear coat isn't necessary over it. Ultimately it's up to you - it's your choice whether you want to or not. I'd say no personally.

~ Cobra Chris

Firstly, it depends what you are useing for the panel line wash and what paint you have used.

As for the future, if you are useing it as a protective coat or just to give a shine before adding decals, then once the decals and weathering are added, you can give it a flkat or semi flat coat, depending on what end result you want.

Yes. No matter what you use for your panel lines as long as it's completely dry. Spray your clear coat LIGHTLY so that it doesn't cause the wash to run, and ruin your paint job. You'll be perfectly safe.

~ Cobra Chris

Thanks so much☺

Any time!

~ Cobra Chris

@ Cobra Chris, I have been using Future for nearly 20 years now and have noticed no yellowing at all on my oldest builds with it. Now Testors rattle can glosscoats and dullcoats that I used previously are all yellowing. Those products I stay clear of for the past 20 years. Their  Gloss coat I replaced with Future. For Flat top coats I have tried various products, and my personal favorite is Humbrol matt coat in the little tin. Ah well, live and learn.

But a simple answer to the question is a gloss coat will help any washes flow in the panel lines. As well as improve decal adheasion and reduce or eliminate silvering. But the main issue for washes is dissimilar layers. If you use an enamel or oil wash, an acrylic layer beneath is desirable due to the thinners in the wash being likely to attack any enamel layer beneath without an acrylic coat in between. If you use acrylic paints this is not an issue. But the rough finish of flat paints can show "tide marks" from your wash as staining. The gloss coat will eliminate that and help the flow of any washes.

Well, Sir. I understand what you're saying, but a quite a few people have complained about future yellowing, and ruining their decals, and paint. Maybe your situation may be different because of your location geographically, or because of the difference in humidity, heat, cold, or other environmental factors beyond any one persons' control. It's hard to say without looking at your builds. This includes how thick it's applied, what other paint types were used with it, their composition, formulation, etc.  Also I don't use washes, but most people use ink with rubbing alcohol which is the traditional method other than using plain black enamel thinned with mineral spirits. Either way, KRYON acrylic clear coat in flat won't be acidic, or chemically reactive enough to damage anything! This is the reason why I use it. I've never had a problem spraying it directly from the can. However, other people may want to use an airbrush for spraying tiny detail without getting a bunch of build up, or they aren't confident using the cheap spray button that most spray paint cans still come with. That's been my experience, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

~ Cobra Chris

For me and aircraft panel lines,the go to combination has been Future and Flory Panel Wash,great stuff,organic,and easy to use.Usually the Future isn't my final coat,mostly I cover it up with a flat coat.

Krylon... I cringe at the thought of anyone wanting - let alone suggest using any Krylon product. Take it from my own experience - DO NOT USE KRYLON!! they're garbage and they've changed the formula on all their product. I used Krylon on a couple of my kits and it literally ruined them! I ended up tossing both in the bin. I was absolutley p***ed  and disgusted with krylon. Krylon has been banished from my home forever.

Now back to the topic of using Future. I have heard numerous folks using Future and have had ZERO issues with them. Maybe your was an old bad batch. I highly doubt location, weather, temps have anything to do with it. Everyone swears by them and I have used them as well. Again, I haven't heard a whole lot of negative issues with Future. Each to his own I guess.

Stuburbia

two, can i take some of the shine out of future because it is very shinny, and im not really looking for that look

Future can be flattened with Tamiya flat base, X-21. I use a 3 part Future to 1 part Tamiya for a final flat coat. This ratio works for me and can be adjusted flatter or glossier depending on one's desired look. You can expect mixed responses on topics due the the wealth of experience found on theses forums. It is a personal journey that you will play out trying any technique or tips you choose to use.

Unless Testors has re done their clear flat/gloss lacquer formula, it will yellow over time specially over white paint. I have been using Future for well over 20 years too and have NEVER had an issue using it. One of the last older builds I had being close to 30 years old was sealed in Future and was recently sold on Ebay. The US Navy high visibilty scheme including the white areas did not yellow and the paint looked like the first day I prayed it on. On the other hand, I had Testors clear gloss lacquer yellow only after about 5-7 years. 

Some modelers have a bad experience with a product or hear of one and automatically condemm its use. I have a friend who used Alclad for the first time and had an awful experience with the black primer. We have heard horror stories about that because the first black primer badges were bad and some even sprayed really bad.

Now he refuses to use Alclad and even gave me a couple of the bottles he had. And as for me, I love how Alclad sprays and the metallic tone it puts down. 

Tojo

I also use Flory but I use it over a Future gloss coat which makes it easy to wipe off once it's dry. I have noticed that if used over a flat coat, it makes it a lot harder to wipe off and will darken the finish a bit, acting like a filter. 

Tojo72

For me and aircraft panel lines,the go to combination has been Future and Flory Panel Wash,great stuff,organic,and easy to use.Usually the Future isn't my final coat,mostly I cover it up with a flat coat.

 

I have to agree with Tojo and PJ here; Flory washes and Future work well for me.  I've found that Future sprays really well when thinned with a bit of Windex.  Man, it looks like glass.  There's never a problem with decaling.  I gave up Testors Glosscote lacquer years ago, mostly due to the lacquer smell but also to not worry about that hot lacquer damaging paint.  That did happen on my Monogram Harrier (still never photographed either...). I've seen no evidence of yellowing of Future at all either.  Generally, I use Model Master clear flat acrylic for the final flat coat.

I tried several different washes, but I've not looked back after switching to Flory.  One note of caution regarding them however:  DO NOT contaminate those Flory mixes with anything solvent-based.  I even keep separate stirring sticks and cups for their use.  Cross-contamination with solvents will ruin the washes. 

Gary

PJ - I'm assuming your friend had used Alclad's black primer is the reason why he won't use Alclad product. There have been numerous complaints of Alclad's own black primer. If he had use straight up gloss paint, I think his feelings would have made a complete turn around.

Use Future.

Wash with oil paints thinned in pseudo turpentine. It's a petroleum based product called Turpenoid and has no smell.

What this gets you, and esp. if you are learning to weather, is that if you don't like the results you can mostly correct them with some wiping.

At the end I flat coat everything.

PJ, I had a bad experience with Micro Flat when I used that product. The Micro Gloss went on like a dream, but the Micro Flat... Yikes. very bad results! I nearly had to pitch the build because it was after decalling and no second chances for what I wanted. Dont recall anymore what I did to salvage it as this was about 20 years ago now and the time I was getting away from Testors rattlecans, but I was not happy. I got rid of that stuff (Micro Flat) immediately. Lets just say a test mule is a wise idea with that stuff before you use it on a project that matters.

Sheep

I told him that exactly. I use Testors gloss black enamel and I get excellent results. He got so upset that he will not use Alclad at all.

stik

I still have Micro flat and gloss that I've in the back of the drawer for eons. I tried thinning it with water and it turned into gunk. Rubbing alcohol thinned it without a problem. I thought they were water based unless mine are so old and they had a different recipe back then.?

PJ, I wish I could recall what I used. I am pretty sure that they are water based, and are supposed to be thinned with distilled water- especially the Micro Flat, IIRC. But like I said, it was 20 years ago, and one shot deal looking for a replacement for Testors rattle cans. And due to the results without a test mule, I pitched the stuff. I think that was when I switched to future for my Gloss coat and began my continuing hunt for the ultimate flat coat. I have found a few that I really liked. And none of them yellow with age... unlike the Testors rattle cans.

I was useing the Micro vanishes for years. But i did ofen have problems especially with the flat. When i moved to spraying out in the shed, i then started to experiance some real issues especially in winter. If i sprayed in the evening, parts of the dried finish would have crystlised. I used to thin mine with distille water no problem.

Now i have switched to Alclad, i mush prefer that.

Bish

I was useing the Micro vanishes for years. But i did ofen have problems especially with the flat. When i moved to spraying out in the shed, i then started to experiance some real issues especially in winter. If i sprayed in the evening, parts of the dried finish would have crystlised. I used to thin mine with distille water no problem.

Now i have switched to Alclad, i mush prefer that.

 

I used the Alclad Flat for the 1st time,that is the deadest flat that I have used,very effective.

plasticjunkie

Sheep

I told him that exactly. I use Testors gloss black enamel and I get excellent results. He got so upset that he will not use Alclad at all.

 

Wow... not even a second chance at it? Such a shame.

Hi Christopher ;

   I have read all of this thread and I am somewhat taken aback . I have used Testors products for years and I've not had yellowing problems

  Now as to Future , I have NEVER had good luck with it ! . I will use Testor's Boyd's Clearcoat thinned and brush applied for decaling then Testors flatcoat Acrylic that's it !

     By the way , Although I don't paint with Acrylics for regular jobs , if you must use Future It can be removed with Ammonia  thinned with distilled water, and it stinks and CAN remove the basecoats ! So beware !  T.B.

plasticjunkie

Unless Testors has re done their clear flat/gloss lacquer formula, it will yellow over time specially over white paint. I have been using Future for well over 20 years too and have NEVER had an issue using it. One of the last older builds I had being close to 30 years old was sealed in Future and was recently sold on Ebay. The US Navy high visibilty scheme including the white areas did not yellow and the paint looked like the first day I prayed it on. On the other hand, I had Testors clear gloss lacquer yellow only after about 5-7 years. 

Some modelers have a bad experience with a product or hear of one and automatically condemm its use. I have a friend who used Alclad for the first time and had an awful experience with the black primer. We have heard horror stories about that because the first black primer badges were bad and some even sprayed really bad.

Now he refuses to use Alclad and even gave me a couple of the bottles he had. And as for me, I love how Alclad sprays and the metallic tone it puts down. 

Tojo

I also use Flory but I use it over a Future gloss coat which makes it easy to wipe off once it's dry. I have noticed that if used over a flat coat, it makes it a lot harder to wipe off and will darken the finish a bit, acting like a filter. 

 

Thats what i like about flory. For a nice grubby look, i do it over a flat finish, for a cleaner result, over flat.

First of all you will need a gloss or semi-gloss coat for any kind of wash."Future" is not the best.Try Alclad gloss ,Testors gloss,or non- spar varnish gloss.These products are stronger.These products have the related flat final applications also.Future and some decal setting solutions do not get along.This is my opinion.But;At contest.I leave everyone in the dust when using these products.

Silver

But;At contest.I leave everyone in the dust when using these products.

 

Cough, cough...

otay.

Ok

Ok i got the gloss coat down and it looks good but im so frustrated trying to do my panel lines im ready to throw the eagle out the window. I just cant get it to flow along the lines ive done alot of reading watched alot of videos i just dont know what im doing wrong.

What are you useing for the wash, is the wash forming into beads.