ok, look at this "pro" and his models, LOL

RonUSMC

Member since
April 2003
From: Seattle, WA

ok, look at this "pro" and his models, LOL

Posted by RonUSMC on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:13 AM

Ok. Honestly I feel a bit sorry for him in a way. I think this is a young kid trying to make a buck, and if so... Bless his heart. I hope he does well. Because lets face it.. alot of people cannot even build them, let alone apply an airbrush to them. But I just have to say.... these are some pieces of work, lol.

Its almost crazy when I look at the detail pictures, some of the parts are not even painted at all... bare plastic. No weathering at all... no panel lines.. nothing... just basic airbrush across them, and even that... some of the camo jobs are the wrong colors, lol.

My first hint was the fact that he can't spell some of the most common words..... like vehicle, amphibious, like, seems, crucial, enemy, mobile, coalition, forces, undercarriage, aerial... well you get the idea. I just want you to look at some of these links and tell me what you think.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2588&item=3135579260
This is in the wrong colors.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2587&item=3135349510
Look at the pilots.. I think they are two colors.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2588&item=3135333850
"florlessly assembled " , "I am also a member of the International Model Builders Socity of America"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2587&item=3135216363
"Notic the realoism and warm detailing"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2587&item=3134903881
I think he just painted over the clear plastic windows in this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2588&item=3134627949
This one is VERY obviously lacking paint on several parts. The hinges where the 25mm rest.. the insides of the doors. All those parts have not even been touched, they are bare plastic.

Click on "View Seller's other items" to see more works from this guy. My only thing is.... He says he has 30 years experience, he's in clubs, etc.

My gripe with it is this.... pictures dont give all the details. So while he claims they are "florelessly detaled" : just from the pictures they look like they have been painted by a child. Then the claims about experience and things, which would lend on giving him some credibility on what you need to guess about in regards to details... just seems like false advertising to me.

Opinions? Comments? Shut Up Ron, its me?

http://finescalegallery.com Active Kits: 1/48 AM Avenger 1/35 Sd.Kfz 251 Ausf C

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erush

Member since
May 2003
From: USA, GA

Posted by erush on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:48 AM

I think I'd have to agree with you Ron. It looks more like an 8 yr old built those and is trying to pull a scam.

My favorite quote is
"My hand mand model can be broked down-"
Give me a "brake" heh heh. He also used "witch" for "which" in one description.

I don't have a problem with someone at that skill level selling his stuff, but to make the claims that he's a "professional" is ludicrous. I'd like to see how well he packages any of his models that he sells too. I bet they're in more pieces than they started when they get where they're going.

It was at least entertaining to read his discriptions Big Smile [:D]

Eric

Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.

"Friendly fire...isn't"

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erush

Member since
May 2003
From: USA, GA

Posted by erush on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:13 AM

Actually after looking at some more of the items, I believe this guy found these at a yard sale or inherited them. The Kearsage actually looks pretty good (for a photo) and way above the skill of most of the rest of the models.

Curious, he didn't place his IPMS trophies in the pictures next to the models that won Question [?]

I think the Beaufighter description takes the cake!! Tongue [:P]

Eric

Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.

"Friendly fire...isn't"

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:52 AM

"This gave the enemey the disadvantage of loss of sleep witch was very bad for solders, who worried about attacks at dawn. "

Attacks at dawn? Wires coming loose again, at most. Dawn raids seem a bit o.t.t.

Not bad for an 8 year old though..

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:51 AM

The only thing going for him, is it looks to me like his models were airbrushed. Other than that, the models ain't exactly what I call "Top Notch", This guy could mess up snap-tite kits, I'd be willing to bet!
Other than that, the colors are usually off, and the figures seem unpainted...
The Abrams looks pretty good, though. Looks like he left off the detail parts, however(even a bargain basement kit would have AT LEAST one jerry can or backpack!)

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:01 AM

Yeah I have to agree that these were probably built by a kid. Look at his A-10. He did such an impressive job on that camoflage. His overspray is only about a couple scale feet. Tongue [:P]

And correct me if I'm wrong (I am not an aircraft nut) but arent hogs in the gulf painted grey?

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:59 AM

I think people shouldn't be so worried about other people's work. If you don't like, don't buy it, move on. To pick apart his work, and his English, is pretty petty if you ask me. Did you ever think that perhaps English is his second language, and he's trying to learn the language??

I think people have too much time on their hands to criticize others. If you don't like his work, have a chuckle to yourself, and move on. But don't add further embarrasement to him by ridiculing him on a public forum.

These are just my thoughts.

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erush

Member since
May 2003
From: USA, GA

Posted by erush on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:36 AM

irherman,
If he hadn't claimed to be a "professional model builder" I wouldn't have said a word. He's trying to make a quick buck off, I think, someone elses work.
But that's just my opinion Smile [:)]

Eric

Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.

"Friendly fire...isn't"

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:47 AM

He claims to be the son of a WW2 Navy vet. So english would be his first language. It just looks like he is a 5th grade dropout.

I would be ashamed to ask that much money for such average quality work. His skills are NOT of Professional Quality. Neither are mine, but I'm not claiming to be and trying to pass off work that is.

I'm wonder if several of us shouldn't use the "ask seller a question" option to tell him that he has become the Laughing Stock of the FSM Forum. And what we think of his spelling and work.

How about it? I'm game if you are.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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upnorth

Member since
December 2002
From: Canada / Czech Republic

Posted by upnorth on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:06 PM

I would, but the temptation to tack on a picture of an actual Longbow variant of the Apache so he knows the difference between a normal Apache, as he has on display, and the actual Longbow.

Lots of people call themselves "professionals" at one thing or another, as long as snake oil "medications" have been sold off the backs of chuckwagons in the Old West and probably long before that.

Just remember the immortal words of P.T. Barnum:

"There's a sucker born every minute"

What else do need to know after that?

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gregers

Member since
February 2003
From: UK

Posted by gregers on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:52 PM

I never thought i would see it but here is someone even I could teach to build kits
(and i think -infact know- i'm not a good modeller) a little more care and attention to detail would have done wonders . To call these creations "pro built" is very optimistic
to say the least. Ok i don't build show winners but at least i admit it.
if ever anyone needed this forum its that guy someone introduce him to it QUICK please before his family starve to death....Gregers

Why torture yourself when life will do it for you?

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:38 PM

As an former F-16 mechanic and current F-16 instructor since 1983. I can safely say I am NOT impressed by his work on the 2 F-16's that he built. You could fill a matchbox with my armour knowledge (and have room leftover) so I dont feel qualified to comment on that aspect. I also have time on A-10's and F-15's and they were in the same catagory as the 16's. I would hate to try and make a budget for a family based on the numbers of bids he is getting on those little "jewels"

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RonUSMC

Member since
April 2003
From: Seattle, WA

Posted by RonUSMC on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 5:18 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by irherman

I think people shouldn't be so worried about other people's work. If you don't like, don't buy it, move on. To pick apart his work, and his English, is pretty petty if you ask me. Did you ever think that perhaps English is his second language, and he's trying to learn the language??

I think people have too much time on their hands to criticize others. If you don't like his work, have a chuckle to yourself, and move on. But don't add further embarrasement to him by ridiculing him on a public forum.

These are just my thoughts.

I see your point very clearly, so let me be more specific on my thoughts so hopefully you understand my point.

I am not a critical person. In fact, if you look through every post I have ever made on anyone's work.. I have never been critical of anyone's work on here, or elsewhere. I dont even give tips or anything on someone's work specifically, or give advice on completed models. Its not my place to do so at all.

Here is the exception.... He claims to have 30 years experience, he claims he has won National Titles, he claims to have been in all these contests.... which is fine and I have no problem with that at all and I dont care one bit... but he put his work up for sale on a public site!

When you put your work up for sale ... you invite criticisms. That is the inherent responsibility of the consumer. To be critical of products, to give reviews, to give opinions to the producer to provide a better product.

If he would put the exact same set of models here... I would not say a word, but he didn't. He posted them for sale on eBay and that in itself invites criticisms. As the consumer it is our responsibility to be mindful.

http://finescalegallery.com Active Kits: 1/48 AM Avenger 1/35 Sd.Kfz 251 Ausf C

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 5:49 PM

I must admit, I'm no expert model builder, but I would never try to sell any of my models, not only because they are worth squat, but also because they are embarrassing.

It looks like this guy doesn't think the way I do!

I'm stunned... absolutely stunned!

Thanks for the links!

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berny13

Member since
February 2003
From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley

Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 6:49 PM

RonUSMC.

Very well put. I agree with you 100%. A person who claims to be a pro should have professional built models to prove it. My grand children can build a model better then the ones he is selling. It is people like that who give this industry a bad name. Just my two cents worth.

Berny

Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale.

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale. F-4 Phantom Group Build.

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M1abramsRules

Member since
June 2003

Posted by M1abramsRules on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:06 PM

look at the p-38. Is that one bomb and one fuel tank I see on there? He is from the US, so its not like english isn't his first language. He has to have a credit card to register on ebay, plus heknows too much about the things he selling to be an 8 year old. but I would not call him a pro Big Smile [:D]

I don't do any weathering either, but I don't have airbrush yet(hopefully within the nexxt 2 months i will and then I'll be putting out some weathered models this winter)

something's fishy though

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 7:44 PM

Looks like a lot of these were relisted: Seller's History

In regards to that Apache, what's up with that description?
Its two man crew sit back to back just like ridding a hourse, one drives the other attacks. This model is built by a Pro, who appreciates the fact that other people can purchase his work and get the power.

Regarding spelling, I find it interesting that he can spell the word "bombardier", but yet goofs up "topetto dive bomber". I don't get the impression that English is a second language for Bob, the model builder. It appears to be more of a rush job sprinkled with some major typos. How much trouble is it to open up Word and do a spelling/grammar check? Or check http://www.m-w.com/ or something. Personally if I referred to myself as a "professional" and asking for that kind of money, I would make an effort to make a better impression.

Labeling himself as a professional model builder or referring to the work as "Pro Built" is kind of a slap in the face to people who really do professional work. I think it gives model builders a bad name. Somebody who may not know better might think that really is "professional built". In the future when they hear that term, they'll be using that work as a reference point.

You might think I'm out in left field, but it happens in every field/profession. From the medical field, legal profession, insurance, auto-repair, programming, etc. People learn a bit of something, label themselves as "professional", sell their services/products and people get upset when things go wrong or aren't up to the standards they should have been. People are quick to blame the profession and not just the person. It's called stereotypes. Then there's the typical complaint that starts out, "The last person/company who did..."

Anyways...

My gut is telling me that the guy is trying to make money off of the Iraqi War. A large % of the models have references to either "Iraqi War" or "Operation Iraqi Freedom" (or some variation). The hyping of the subject matter and the war, high price, low quality and little about the actual kit -- something just doesn't feel right.

BTW, does anyone know where to find membership information for the "International Model Builders Society of America". No one? That's what I thought. Wink [;)]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:01 PM

This guy should be thrown off e-bay. He is obviously not being honest. The A-10 appears to be missing the main gear doors and the nose gear door is half closed with the leg between the door and fuse.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:30 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2587&item=3135331664 is probubly the worst: the photoetch is not painted, too loose, and looks taped on.

the frames are kinda painted, and some leeked onto the clear plastic.

the decals are silvered

and some of the gaps are not filled.

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berny13

Member since
February 2003
From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley

Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:39 PM

Bayonet Recon.

Not everyone can express their thoughts in writing. Everyone of us has made a mistake in spelling or made a typo error. I try to go back and check my work for errors prior to submiting it. At times I may miss or overlook an error. I find most of my errors are a result of being in a hurry and thinking so far ahead of my fingers.

The one thing I can't understand is how a person is able to graduate from high school and not be able to write or spell? Isn't that a requirement for graduating? The second largest selling book in the world is the dictionary, but very few people know how to use one. Maybe spell check has spoiled the younger generation.

Berny

Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale.

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale. F-4 Phantom Group Build.

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RonUSMC

Member since
April 2003
From: Seattle, WA

Posted by RonUSMC on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:01 PM

It is in every industry.

Also... it gives people like 7793, http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4133 , a bad name. He makes a living off of selling his models I *think*. Now when he goes to sell another one, they might not even think about purchasing one because they have already been burned once. When customers get burned, they usually just give up on any further like-entertainment purchase. Which in reality just hurts the Pro Building industry.

This type of thing runs rampant in my industry also: Web Design.

http://finescalegallery.com Active Kits: 1/48 AM Avenger 1/35 Sd.Kfz 251 Ausf C

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renarts

Member since
April 2003
From: Sunny Florida

Posted by renarts on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:20 AM

This is also a visual industry and you'd have to be pretty foolish to contract a "professional service" off of e-bay. Talk about Buyer Beware. I've been burned on e-bay once too much to trust it. I will live vicariously through you guys on that one. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

He will cater to a market that will appreciate his goods, if they can get through his diction. Why you would consider buying something like that off of e-bay when there are plenty of local artists that could offer the same thing is sort of like going to a dentist in a flea market. "Here buddy, drink this and hold on" Ya gets what ya pays for.

We benefit most from a well educated consumer. It becomes your best interest to educate more people to belive your product is superior to another. If everyone around you is building $10 models, sure they will expect you to build models for $10 its up to you to educate and sell your client on the $100 model. Does it really matter if this guy sells snake oil? Do you go down and stop the local faith healer from taking innocent peoples money for something they didn't get? Do you go to Hooters for the wings? Do you really belive that the ronco pocket sewing machine can sew drapes? And do you really belive that those college girls on the Girls gone Wild videos are really college girls?...... same thing with this. Do you really think he is damaging the industry? Florida certainly didn't do anything to ruin the electoral process. Made the state look bad and certainly gave the country something to laugh about, but we still have presidential elections no matter how questionable. I'm with irhermann on this one. Its a source of a laugh but I wouldn't lose sleep on it.

Mike

Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:28 AM

We all had to learn some time.

As for correct spelling.
I think that anyone even considering buying one of these things
will instantly turn away once they see that.

I hate to say this but some of almost sound threatend that this guy.

It seams that alot of you are taking a "THE NERVE OF THAT GUY" attitudes.

Has anyone conntacted him and asked what the deal is?

Their seams to be alot of talk here.

Who's going to step up and contact that person!

Then what will you tell that person?
"You suck", you can't build models so give it up?

I think its time for a reality check boys.

First lets figure out if this person is trying to commit fraud by claiming to be a pro
before we destory a persons reputation.

Maybe he really thinks he's a pro.

Lets give him the benfit of the doubt and assume he does not have any "real " modelers the show him the way.

P.s. do not worry about a poor modeler ruining our reputations as pro's or semi pro's
On e-bay or any where else.

I know that I am not going to lose sleep over it.

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leemitcheltree

Member since
January 2003
From: Washington State

Posted by leemitcheltree on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:03 AM

Goodness Gracious..............
I am a professional modeller, and I do take exception to seeing this calibre of work, labelled as created by a professional, being sold for that kind of price.
I've asked for, and gotten, up to USD250 for a 1/12 Tamiya motorcycle (heavily modified and just about perfect) because true enthusiasts recognise the quality of the scale replicas I create and have no problem paying the price I ask.
I have no problem with people such as the gentleman in question advertising his wares on Ebay - I feel fairly confident he's not cutting into my market share.
If someone wants to purchase one of his models, great. Good on them. And good on him for selling his models.
I feel that I, and my clientele have slightly (!!) different standards, so I'll keep doing what I do, and he can keep doing what he does (and ne'er the twain shall meet!).
I've found that a subscription to FSM (13 years now) has been a great source of inspiration and makes me try harder and at least equal (or better!) the finer models detailed in the magazine.
Keep doing what your'e all doing - have fun and always try to do better next time and have a laugh about it but don't let this kind of stuff ruin your day.
Life is too short.
Cheers,
Lee Tree

Cheers, LeeTree
Remember, Safety Fast!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:03 AM

that's some goofy shisnit, but really what's this guy thinking?

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:51 PM

OK guys I stepped up to the plate and sent this guy a message via the Ask the Seller a Question option.

I said that his adds have got this thread going, put in a link, and invited him to use it and to READ all the messages.

I didn't use a "Mean" tone, just matter-of-fact type. I hope he will read this. He really is an embarrassment to you true professional builders out there.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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garyfo

Member since
December 2002

Posted by garyfo on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 3:34 PM

Seriously, the little army guys he has in his diorama pictures crack me up. Smile [:)]

Those are great. Honest. Aside from all the spelling and all that..those little army guys made my day.

Gary

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:56 PM

Nobody can prove any of the accusations that they are issuing. Therefore most of what is being said is merely speculation and assumptions. What if this person has physical or mental limitations, and this is the very best work that they can do? Wouldn't that be embarrassing? My point is, we don't know what this persons situation is. So why not cut him some slack?

Darren

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 9:01 PM

If I calimed to be a professional modeller, with credentials dating back to when Moses built little model arks, would I be criticized or ridiculed by the forum? Most definately, and I would expect to be.

As to wether his shenanigans can impact the ebay sellers out there, most definately. If potential buyers see that quality (?) of work often enough, they won't hesitate to skip over any item bearing a "pro-modelled" description with the thought that it's just another scam. In every little way, the way we as modelers and professionals conduct ourselves both in and out of this forum reflects on the hobby as a whole, and directly on those that partake in this glorious hobby.

A few months ago, a modeller won an award for his work at a national competition. Come to find out, he was passing others' work as his own. He was banned from any further participation in any sanctioned event FOR LIFE. Officials are still very wary of any entry now, as to its authenticity and actual artist. Can we afford this kind of scrutiny just because one person wants to make a buck or two?

demono69

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Wingman_kz

Member since
March 2003
From: Virginia

Posted by Wingman_kz on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:16 PM

Well, although I don't post often and haven't been around much at all lately, I am a member here and this is my opinion...

So what?

I really can't believe that this thread has grown to two pages. Some of the comments are slanderous and believe it or not, you could be sued for making such comments and statements here just as you could in real life. That may sound a little preposterous and may be an unwinnable case but either way, it would still be a hassle that most of us wouldn't want to face and for some, that would be reason enough to try it.

All of ebay is a *buyer beware* situation. You lay down your money and you take your chances. If you get burned by someone that's one thing, and you'd still have to watch what you say in a public forum, but to randomly assault and pick apart a seller is going a little too far. No matter the claims made by this person or the quality of their work.

I haven't looked at the items in question and don't intend to. I'm not defending this person either. Just giving my opinion.