UH-1B/C RAN....help needed.

Here are a few pics that show the roof area and winch.  This one looks like a Naval model, but is still the same basic set-up. 

Hope that helps.

   Thanks very much Gino. I have a few pictures in my collection and they are mostly like yours. Distant shots that don't show lots of detail. 898 is the bird that i want to build. It serves with the RAN Historic Flight and i have seen it at airshows before. I am not sure if it is still flying. I may pay the RAN Museum at HMAS Albatross a visit over Xmas and get some close ups. 

   Any pics are good pics, so again, thanks so much!!

   Boomer...

Boomer,

   My records show the Australian Navy purchasing both UH-1B's and UH-1C's but not UH-1L, TH-1L, UH-1E's or HH-1K's.  In any event, the kit you will modify should be a UH-1B and NOT a UH-1C.  The photos of 898 clearly show the narrow chord horizontal stabs, narrow chord blade, blade counterweights, and nose mounted pitot tube characteristic of the B model.  There is no kit of the TH-1L, UH-1L, HH-1K or UH-1E in any scale that I am aware of.  The rescue hoist is exactly the same as that seen on UH-1E's, HH-1K's, etc.  Here is a photo page with at least one decent shot of the hoist:

http://apma.org.au/reference/ranfaa/huey/huey.html 

Also, 898 has the later style particle seperator instead of the bell mouth intake seen in most of the pics in the link above.  Let us know what scale you are building in and maybe we can point you to the right kits.  In any event, your bird will basically be a B model with a rescue hoist.  Here are a roof shot of a B model:

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Here's a closeup of the particle seperator on a UH-1M (UH-1C with T53-L13 engine).  This type seperator was also retrofitted to B models:

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Let us know the specifics of what you need and someone here will surely post more pics.  Also try searching the forum for the Navy and Marine Hueys (check the Huey Links thread).  Good luck with your build and keep us posted!

   Ray
 

  Thanks for the help so far guys..

  The kit i have is the old Monogram Huey Hog in 1/48 scale. It is an old kit and needs lots of clean up and TLC.  As far as i can see it close enough to a RAN UH-1B. Adding the roof hoist and motor housing should make it look more like a RAN bird.

  Someone from here sent me an email to my private address with some very useful pics and diagrams. One pic i already have in my collection, but your line drawings were perfect. Thanks whoever you are on here..........lol. Here they are....

  Line drawings of the hoist set up...

   And a great shot of the roof. This is a C model right?

  Rotorwash.....  Thanks for the pics. The first one didn't come out though. You mentioned about the narrow chord stabs and rotors. What does the Monogram kit have in it? I would not be able to tell the difference myself.

   Boomer...

Boomer,

  When you say the first pic didn't come out, do you mean the picture of the UH-1B roof or the link to the pictures?

Assuming the RAN never got the Marine or Navy Huey models mentioned earlier, the photo  is of a UH-1B with a roof mounted winch.  It is definitely not a Charlie model.  There is no roof mounted pitot (charcteristic of the C model) and the rotor head is the typical 204 rotor head found on Bravos as opposed to the 540 rotor charcteristic of the Charlie.  Also note that this bird has the bell mouth intake not the particle separator found on the bird you are building.

  So your building in 1/48.  The monogram kit is an OK starting point, but you have some mods to make in order to get an accurate B model.  Unfortunately, the kit is a mixture of both B and C features.  There are several threads on this forum dealing with converting the HUEY HOG to either a B or C, but here are a few tips.  First off, your lucky in my estimation that you are building a Bravo.  The kit comes with a B model tail and horizontal stabs.  The roof mounted pitot tube should be left off and a nose mounted one scratchbuilt.  The particle seperator for your bird is also in the kit.  The one major issue is the rotor.  the rotor that comes in the kit is the 540 rotor found on Charlies but not on Bravos.  The B model also has a rotor chord of 21 inches vs. 27 inches for the C model.   My suggestion is to get a rotor from a UH-1D ESCI or Italeri kit.  The rotor head will work great and the blade is the right chord.  Unfortunately, the diameter of the blades are 4 scale feet too long (44ft-B model vs. 48 ft.-D model).  Other than shortening the blades,  you only need to add the blade counterweights and you are in buissness.  If you need pics of some of this stuff, just give a holler.  good luck!

    Ray
 

  Well, now i am really not sure what is a B or what is a C when it comes to RAN Huey's......lol. You say that pic of the crashed 895 is not a C because it does not have a roof mounted pitot. Other references i have showing C models don't have roof mounted pitot's either. They show a single small pitot just below the co-pilots windscreen.........the more pics i find the harder it is to tell. It appears that either air intake system could be fitted to eithe model. One of my references states that the C was quite rare.

  My HAWKEYE MODELS decal sheet shows 895 as a C model but with a filter intake instead of a scoop. The book VAMPIRE, MACCHI AND IROQUOIS IN AUSTRALIAN SERVICE shows it(and incidentally as a C model) with a scoop as in the crash photo. So i am confused.....

  Its a bummer about the rotor. I had the old Esci UH-1D years ago. It got broken up and went to model heaven. Just proves you should never throw anything out! Ok, just to set the story straight. It went out in a blaze of glory. It was hovering above my bed and was taken out by enemy AA (mum making my bed...lol). A total write off. 

  Right then, i am set on modelling 898. It is close to the kit i have and being on the airshow circuit for years, there are plenty of pics around.

  Oh by the way Rotorwash, your post had a square with a red box in it. I just assumed that one of your pics didn't turn out.

  Boomer...

   These pics of 893 and 898 also show an antenna of some sort on the roof. It is not present on all RAN Huey's either. Just another something to confuse me......LOL. 

   Oh, i did read somwhere once, another forum maybe or another site that white ensgins were never on the drop tanks. 893 has them.....

   Boomer...

Boomer,

  I feel you pain about the confusion between B and C models.  I was trying to keep things simple.  The earliest C models had the bell mouth intake, however, NO C model that I have ever seen had a nose mounted pitot and NO B model I have ever seen had a roof mounted pitot. I will never say never because somebody will surely post a pic proving me wrong, but it's as close to a rule as I can find.  The one feature that will definitively distinguish a B from a C is the fuel filler location.  The Bravo has the fuel filler on the right side and the Charlie has the fuel filler on the left side.  Also, the 540 rotor system is significantly different from the 204 rotor system.  There are many misslabeled photos in refs so you have to be careful.  For instance, many UH-1B's suffered from cracked tail booms during Vietnam.  Many of these were replaced with UH-1C tailbooms which had a wider chord tail.  However, these birds still retained the narrow chord horizontal stabs and the 204 rotor system of a B model.  Also, the particle seperator was used on both B and C models even though some refs indicate it was a difference between the two.  Nose mounted FM antennae on US Army birds were found mostly on UH-1B's.  However, UH-1C's early in production had them as well.  There is no way to give you all the info you probably want in a few paragraphs.  All of this stuff has been hashed out here in the forums and your best bet is to go to the Huey Threads link and start surfing.  There are tons of photos with good documentation that will help you learn the differences between the two.  By the way, you are correct that Charlie models were less common than Bravos.  The C model was an interim model between the B model and the AH-1G Cobra gunship.  That is one reason why I don't think the RAN ever flew Charlies, at least until after VN.  Like I say, though, I Never say Never!

    Good luck,

           Ray
 

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Boomer,

  I'm not sure exactly which antenna that is on the roof.  However, here are the features that identify this bird as a UH-1B (again assuming that the RAN didn't get any Navy or Marine Hueys).   The blue arrow points to the blade counterweights.  The yellow arrow to the symmetrical narrow chord horizontal stabs.  The green arrow points to the nose mounted pitot. Fianlly, the red arrow points to teh right handed fuel filler cap.  This bird is defnitely NOT a Charlie model.  I hope that helps.

     Ray
 

   Thanks for all your info and pics Rotorwash. Also thank you for your patience and time you have put into your posts. I am very grateful and it has helped me very much.

    THANK YOU....

   Boomer...

Boomer,

  My pleasure, Mate.  Keep us informed of your progress.  Good luck with the build!

            Ray

The RAAF and RAN early Hueys were standard UH-1B's. The only different ones were navy 894 & 898 which had the C model fuel tank arrangement. The filler cap was on the left hand side and the tank on that side was extended to the top of the cabin door in height. The winch was the same as used on the UH-1E and other US navy and marine rescue versions. I have some photos and drawings which I will dig out and post.

John

   Thanks EXBIRDY. Thanks for your private email too. I appreciate all the help given to me so far. And if you have any pics, well, any reference material is always usefull. So please post them, that would be great.

   My build is slow. The fit of this kit i have is not real great.....lol. Putting up a bit of a chalenge. A lot of trial fitting and trimming going on........

   Boomer...

Boomer 

I've got a few overhead photos if needed. contact me off line as I don't know how to post photos here on the site.

 Brian

Here is a link to some of my photos. The close up shots I found on the web. I am uploading more soon.

http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/JJELLIS_PHOTO/

John

     EXRIRDY.......  Thanks for the link to your photos. I am curious. The two clour close up's, what model Huey are they from? I noticed that the close up of the winch motor housing shows that the housing protrudes over the green roof glazing. Pictures of RAN birds i have show the housing set further back. Those two pics are great though, they show some good detail........

     BMK.......  thanks for the offer of the pictures you have. I have emailed you....

    Boomer...

Just read Stewart Wilson's vampire,macchiand iroquois in aus servise and it states the RAN took charge of 7 iroquois 3 bravo's and 4 charlie's the b model number codes are 857 887 897. the c model codes are 893 894 895 898.  the c model has 2 tiny what seem to be arial's just in front of the bottom of the 2 windscreens near the middle! thay also have no "towel rack" antanae and the pitot tube on the roof.  the winch is the pitot is in the same place as the uh-1D the c also has a small fin type antanae just in front of the beacon light on top of the exhaust cowling.  RAN #898 is the only charlie that has the defused grill on the intake! it also hlate in its career have the late uhf fm antanae on the roof like the uh-1H anything else please ask! cheers ind the spelling just had an op on my brain so unless its in fron of me i can't spell proper yet too well! cheers

Aussiemodeler,

Your source may very well be correct, as long as the Navy moved number codes around between aircraft (to confuse the enemy ).  I say that because in the photos posted above, at least 893 and 898 are UH-1Bs.  The evidence is in the rotorheads.  These are early 204 heads (with the counter weights) and not the 540 head that is the defining difference of the "C" model.  You can add and remove "fiddlies" all over it but it's all in the rotorhead that makes the difference (other assorted differences included of course).

Regards
Steve

   I agree with Steve about the RAN birds being B models.  There is no way those birds are Charlies.  It's more than just the rotorhead (although that seals the deal). Its the horizontal stabs, tail, pitot tube and fuel filler loactions.  Unless those numbers were used on other birds, the ones you listed as C models are ALL Bravos or bravo derivatives (check pics of those birds in this thread).  Sorry that the refs apparently have that mixed up.  As I mentioned before, it is unlikely that the US would have parted with any Charlies until after VN, at least. Also, there were comparatively few Charlies built in the first place. 

    Ray
 

   The references sure are confusing . I have deduced from all that has been posted here that i am building a UH-1C, not a B model as i thought..... The main differences seem to be the fuel fillers and the rotorheads, after that, it all gets too confusing. Aerials and pitot tubes seem to change with no rhyme or reason with the different models.

   Anyway, i am building a C model and thats final!....

   Boomer...

Boomer and aussiemodeler,

  You guys build to please yourself.  If you want to build a D model RAN bird that's fine.  Just have fun!  Steve and I were just trying to help as best we can from our side of the pond.  I will tell you that NONE of the pics that are posted in this thread show a single Charlie model feature.  I hope the build goes well and keep us posted.

     Ray

Boomer, Check this site:

http://www.adf-serials.com/3a2.shtml

It gives serials for RAAF Hueys and the Codes used by the RAN for their birds. Here is the entry fr the ship you say you are interested in building:

You will also notice that there are NO Uh-1C's listed in the RAAF, Army, or RAN enventory.  I hope that helps.

    Ray
 

It occurs to me that those reading this thread trying to decide whether they are looking at a Bravo or a Charlie model haven't seen a C model posted here yet.  So for comparisons sake, her first are two B models:

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Here are a couple of C models fr comparison:

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Compare the following features between the B and C models:  Rotoheads- 204 rotor in B model vs. 540 rotor in C model, Rotor chord- 21 inches in B model vs. 27 inches in C model, Pitot tube- On the nose in the B model vs. on the roof in the C model, Tail fin- marrow in the B model vs. much wider in the C model, Horizontal stabs- Narrow with symmetrical airfoil in the B model vs. Wide with assymetrical airfoil in the C model, Fuel filler- on the right in the B model vs on the leaft in the C model.  Those are the best characters I know of for differentiating teh two models.  Maybe this will help clear up some of the confusion.

    Ray

Aussiemodeler,

  No offense taken, man.  Posting is so impersonal, but I promise that I wasn't upset.  I know how frustrating refs on Hueys can be, trust me.  I was just trying to help out the other guys who read this thread that are also having a hard time sorting out the details.  I guess I have to start using the emoticons again .  See now doesn't that just make a statement look happier!  Good luck with your build!

     Ray 

Aussiemodeler,

  Which kit ya building?

               Ray