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RAN UH1Cs Wide chord blades or not?August 6 2007 at 7:24 PM
No score for this post | Bruce A (no login)
from IP address 203.214.0.138 |
| Halfway through my Monogram Huey and am stuck on what blades to use. I know the C used the wider chord blades due to the uprated engine but can find no pics of any with blades at rest. I know we only had four. Dave Edwards kindly sent me some pics but they are all B models with narrow blades, well I think they are B models. The C model had a wider chord fin and stabilisers but cannot tell any difference from pics either
Bruce
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John Ellis"); // --> John Ellis John Ellis
(no login)
124.171.97.78 | Re: RAN UH1Cs Wide chord blades or not?No score for this post | August 6 2007, 8:09 PM |
The only UH-1C features on our hueys was the extended fuel tank on the left hand side. The filler cap was also moved from the right to the left side. During the 80s, 894 and 898 were the only ones featuring this.
John
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
143.238.136.138 | RAN UH-1B/CNo score for this post | August 6 2007, 8:10 PM |
G'day Bruce,
I gather you're building the 1:48 kit? If so, the main rotor and hub are no good. The RAN Iroquois were, for all intensive purposes, UH-1Bs with some C model features. NO broad chord fins and narrow chord synch elevators.
You will need a 'standard' head with 21" chord (narrow) blades. The 1:48 Monogram kit has a '540' head with a completely different hub and wide blades. I suggest robbing the head from a D/H Model kit and shortening the blades by two scale feet. You'll need to replace the trim tabs as a result.
If you're building the 1:24 kit, the main rotor is good to go, you just need to add the missing chinese weights to the inboard drag brace attachment points.
Not all of the aircraft had the left side refuel point, check your references carefully.
Hope this helps. Ryan H is advertising B Model conversions in the Marketplace DG.
Rod
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John Ellis"); // --> John Ellis John Ellis
(no login)
124.171.97.78 | Re: RAN UH-1B/CNo score for this post | August 6 2007, 8:46 PM |
I probably wasn't very clear. N9-3102/894 AND N9-3104/898 were the only ones i worked on that had the left hand filler cap and extended tank.The 5 hueys that were on HC723 in the 80s;
N9-882/897 RH cap and intake scoop
N9-3101/893 RH cap and intake filter
N9-3102/894 LH cap and intake scoop
N9-3103/895 RH cap and intake scoop
N9-3104/898 LH cap and intake filter
The intake i am referring to is the engine jet intake.
895 and 897 also carried drop tanks.
All the aircraft sat in different attitudes on the ground due to their differing weights. This varied with the age of the skid cross tubes. The older the tubes, the more tail down the aircraft sat.
John
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
143.238.136.138 | On the skids...No score for this post | August 6 2007, 9:14 PM |
G'day John,
There was an urban myth at 5SQN that you guys had H Model front cross tubes on some of your skids to make them more ship friendly.
Our Bravos were often the opposite with a distinct nose down stance courtesy of all the autos and running landings onto the lanes at Fairbairn. Also, semi regular C130 transport for the SAR birds meant we were a bit tighter on skid spread limits. 102" max from memory...
Got to see the Museum's Bravo wockering around last time I was at Albatross. Looks and sounds great!
Rod
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John Ellis"); // --> John Ellis John Ellis
(no login)
124.171.97.78 | Re: On the skids...No score for this post | August 6 2007, 9:21 PM |
Would have been nice to have them. In the end we were scrounging anything we could get. We used to have a lot of fun with the guys from 5 sqn. They used to think we would strip their hueys if they left them too long on our pads
John
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the other Ray
(no login)
203.220.81.151 | aaaah, those were the days!!!No score for this post | August 6 2007, 10:47 PM |
Hi all,
Those were the days, when the RAAF operated the big choppers and all was right wth the world!!!!
the other Ray
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the other Ray
(no login)
203.220.81.151 | aaaah, those were the days!!!No score for this post | August 6 2007, 10:47 PM |
Hi all,
Those were the days, when the RAAF operated the big choppers and all was right with the world!!!!
the other Ray
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Bruce A
(no login)
203.214.0.138 | Rod and John THANKYOU very much for the info, and John,someNo score for this post | August 6 2007, 10:27 PM |
more questions.
I am indeed using the Monogram 48th scale kit in conjuction with Ryans set. I have grafted on an early style intake from the fujimi kit as below
![]() " border="0" />
and another one of the bottom. I have opened up the cargo hook and rear vent as well
![]() " border="0" />
I am going to use the hawkeye decals and do 897 with the drop tanks decorated with the navy ensign
1. Would this be correct for this particular a/c. I am assuming tanks got swapped from a/c to a/c
2. was the flag on both drop tanks or just port or starbord
Thankyou for clearing up the rotor issue. I will be using the head and blades from an old ESCI kit
Bruce
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John Ellis"); // --> John Ellis John Ellis
(no login)
124.171.97.78 | Re: Rod and John THANKYOU very much for the info, and John,someNo score for this post | August 6 2007, 11:19 PM |
we never had drop tanks with the ensign on them.I dont know when they were painted on. Normally the tanks had the last digit of the code number on them.Later on we only had one set of tanks, which were plain blue. Tanks weren't used very often.As for 897, it was a stock standard UH-1B.Early in 84 it was used as HMAS Stalwart ships flight helo for 2 weeks and was fitted with extra tie down points on the skids and hard points. Check photos as these hueys were zapped on a regular basis. A couple of them were covered in stickers
John
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
143.238.136.138 | Blade tabsNo score for this post | August 6 2007, 11:20 PM |
Bruce,
One more thing about the blade surgery, the real trim tabs are just 1/8th alloy plates bonded to the lower skin and faired in with bog. From memory, the tab extends about the same distance under the blade trailing edge as it protrudes.
I'm pretty sure the tabs were the same distance from the tip regardless of B or H. Reference photos seem to support this. I suggest you take measurements of the Esci blade tabs and replicate them using thin card after you shorten the blades.
Out of interest, the tabs are there to match the blade tracks to prevent vertical vibrations. Using a strobe gun and reflective I & - targets bolted to each blade tip, we would watch the blades on a test flight. If the vibration (and track) was consistent throughout the flight range, we adjusted the pitch change link of the low blade up. If the vibe increased with airspeed, and we could see the blade track split increasing, we would bend the tab of the low blade up.
As far as lateral vibrations go, the big blade bolts are hollow with a screw in plug on top. Lead sinkers are added for spanwise balance. For chordwise balance, one blade is swept slightly using the adjustable drag brace that connects the trailing edge to the head.
One more thing (pet hate), PLEASE don't forget to put a little coning angle on the main rotor hub. The main rotor assembly doesn't sit in a flat plane. The B Model has a 3 degree coning angle and the H Model 2 degrees.
Here endeth the lesson!
Cheers and hope the build goes well. I'm about to attempt a 1:35th scale 5SQN Bravo using the Academy kit. If anyone has pics of the rear cabin wall fittings, I would be eternally grateful.
Rod
p.s. there are some great UH-1 reference articles popping up over on finescale.com under forums/helicopters.
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Bruce A
(Login pacificmustang)
203.214.0.138 | Thanks again Tom and John, some interior pics for you TomNo score for this post | August 7 2007, 2:20 AM |
![]() " border="0" />
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will indeed bend a bit of angle into the blades Tom I also note that on most of the pics the blades are not horizontal to the ground but are p
"pointed backwards" if you know what I mean ie on all parked a/c the blades are aligned along the axis of the heli, the front blade seems to point up a little and the rear blade points down, poor explanation I know, sorry
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
143.238.136.138 | This pic any use?No score for this post | August 7 2007, 12:38 PM |
Bruce,
This is 1019's hook hole if it's any use to you?
Rod
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Bruce A
(no login)
203.214.0.138 | Rod thats sensationalNo score for this post | August 7 2007, 1:28 PM |
the only pics I had before were from the side, never knew what was above the hook, now to put some of that detail in, goes to show, you can never have enough pics and different angles
thanks again
Bruce
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
143.238.136.138 | Hell hole detailNo score for this post | August 7 2007, 2:02 PM |
A pleasure Bruce,
the hell hole is boxed in on all four sides as you see it. The hook assembly hangs from the Lift Beam which is basically an I beam which runs across the hell hole and is attached to the main fuselage structure. The transmission has a lift link on the bottom which attaches to the top of the lift beam. Thus, any external load strain acts in a straight line to the main rotor axis does not affect the aircraft's Centre of Gravity.
There are three springs that keep it central and our hooks did not have the ability to swivel.
Rod
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Graeme Molineux"); // --> Graeme Molineux Graeme Molineux
(Login GraemeMolineux)
59.167.92.167 | So the Academy UH-1C is no good for RAN?No score for this post | November 19 2007, 12:28 AM |
Hi Guys, Is it too late to come and chat in this threadd?
I have two Academy 1:35 UH-1Cs up in the cupboard and I was intending to build one as N9-
N9-3101-4 and possibly produce some decals. From what you are saying, Rod, The tail fin, stabilator and rotor head on the RAN Charlies are actually
Bravo style?Bugger! I thought this was going to be OOB! I guess I've got some cutting and filling to do.
Now that I look closer at some of my reference, I see what you mean. So, really, the only thing Charlie is the engine?
I want to do some proper colour profiles of the RAN birds too, Might anyone be able to help me with stencils and details and such when the time comes? I am looking at doing all the RAN birds and as many of the RANHFV choppers as I can find reference and details for, slicks and guns.
My aim is to produce some high quality frameable prints of Hueys in Australian service, and I want to make sure I get the details right.
Let me know your thoughts!
Graeme.
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
121.223.22.60 | Academy 1:35 UH-1C to RAN B conversionNo score for this post | November 19 2007, 10:03 PM |
G'day Graeme,
I think you have your work cut out for you. I have one of these kits but am fortunate to also possess the Cobra Company C to B backdate resin set (birthday present courtesy of my son's trip to the States earlier in the year).
http://www.cobracompany.com/35008.htm
At US$30 plus postage it's an expensive exercise. One other option might be to use the fin and rotor head from the old Revell 1:32 UH-1D kit.
I don't know how well they'll scale out, the fin mightn't work but I reckon the main rotor would go close. You would obviously need to shorten the blades and re-do the trim tabs to achieve a scale 44 foot span tip to tip.
Whatever you do, the winch, winch motor fairing and external tanks are going to have to be scratchbuilt (unless Ryan H can come up with something...hint,hint,).
Bottom line, despite what is written in various texts and websites, the RAN UH-1s were Bravo Models. They just picked up a few Charlie features along the production line such as the extra fuel tank on the left engine workdeck and a rotor brake.
Good luck,
Rod
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Graeme Molineux"); // --> Graeme Molineux Graeme Molineux
(no login)
59.167.92.167 | How about the Panda Hotel kit fin?No score for this post | November 20 2007, 9:55 PM |
I may be back in business here... I have a Panda Hotel that I was going to sacrifice for the rotor gear. I could use the fin from that, yes?
That would be cheaper than going the Cobra Company set tooo.
It still makes it a $100 chopper!. The stab and winch I could scratch up.
While I'm at it, does anybody know anything about the "Ned Kelly" gunship trials bird the AWM has pics of? They haven't labelled it very accurately but it does appear to be a Bravo.
Graeme.
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Rod Cairns
(no login)
121.223.22.60 | That'll work!No score for this post | November 21 2007, 7:51 AM |
DO'OH,
Graeme, I hadn't thought of the Panda kit. The fins are identical on Bs and D/Hs so that should work. There are some 'chinese weights' that need to be fitted to the rotor hub for a Bravo also. They are small 'posts' where the blade drag braces attach to the blade grips.
Your new synch elevators should be the same span as the kit ones but 3/4 the chord, symmetrical in profile and have a small spanwise fence along the top only.
9SQN UH-1B A2-1025 was Ned Kelly (1).
Cheers,
Rod
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