Diorama "Jerry's Command"

First, the 500 yds to the enemy ,may well be an OLD sign. I see a radio operator in the track and the jeep crew are looking toward him, maybe waiting for some other deployment for the M16?

 

until I do work reasonably close to "ART INSTRUCTOR" I will add praise, to the work done

 

Dan 

Gotcha, Hans; I realize your love for the Dio, and so you do scrutinize and judge it more so than perhaps I would, even though I DO love a great dio as well.

Thanks for an interesting discussion!

Ok, like I said before... Any part of that dio, on it's own, standing alone, is a fine piece of work.  Put together though, the dio falls apart.  There's too much "thinking" and "filling in" by the viewer that has to be done, the "maybe this guy's doing that." and "Maybe over there is a..." stuff isn't the mark of a great diorama...  One of the keys to a successful diorama is that viewer not only sees what the focus is, but that he immediately sees it and is drawn in further...  

Smaller "scenes within the scenes" are ok, but not at the expense of the major focus.. Continuity is important in a great dio, each part doing something to support the others, even though it may not be apparent that you're actually telling your viewer where you want him to look, placing figures and small details in such places that direct the viewer's eyes around the scene...

I'm not about stepping on people's toes in here.. I'm just trying to offer ideas and suggestions that might make a diorama-builder better at it... That's why I post my stuff "in progress".. I depend on the other eyes in here to help me find the stuff I missed... I also expect brutal honesty, so I dish out nothing I am not willing to take myself...

IMHO, dioramas are at the top of the "scale modeling food chain", and therefore subject to closer scrutiny and tougher critique... As dio-builders, we can't be good at one or two things, we have to get good a LOT of things, the kits, the figures, the groundwork, the structures and foliage, the story, all that stuff... 

 

 

 

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Let's see if I can put in context for you, Doog... Would you care if I joined your (or any other, for that matter) band as a bass player, stood on the stage, took the bows, but only pretended to play, since I actually have a real bassist back-stage playing through my amp?

Again, Hans, with alll due respect, that's not what he's doing. He DOES give his builders credit.

I see MM as more of a DJ, spinnig tracks of artists without layng any claim to having performed or written the works. If he were claiming the models as HIS work, now that would be a whooole other ball game.

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Let's see if I can put in context for you, Doog... Would you care if I joined your (or any other, for that matter) band as a bass player, stood on the stage, took the bows, but only pretended to play, since I actually have a real bassist back-stage playing through my amp?

Forgive me if I am missing something here, but doesn't the individual posting as "modelmaniac" alway give the name (or nickname) of the actual constructer of the posted work? I am fairly new to the forum so I have not had a chance to look back through the complete history of the posting of work but the ones I have seen, he always includes "by art instructor" (or other individuals who's names escape me at this moment-sorry)which would seem to me that he is giving proper credit to the actual builder. If he made improper claims as to authorship in the past then I could certainly understand the ire his postings seem to draw.
Perhaps this next question would be better served on an independent thread but here goes any way:
Is there an American version of "modelmaniac"? Someone who is compiling a vast collection of works?
Given the subjects of some of the threads lamenting the decreasing numbers in the hobby, as well as LHS's, would this industry be well served by having an American version of "modelmaniac" and would you yourselves consider contributing to the collection?

Let's see if I can put in context for you, Doog... Would you care if I joined your (or any other, for that matter) band as a bass player, stood on the stage, took the bows, but only pretended to play, since I actually have a real bassist back-stage playing through my amp?

 

Hans von Hammer wrote:

I agree Doog... Each element, by itself, is pretty good.  Each one would look outstanding on a shelf. But we're supposed to believe (or rather engage the "willing suspension of dis-belief") that all of them are together, interacting with each other, on the side of a non-descipt German road in 1945 and they're from an ADA battalion 500 yards from the enemy... This is where it falls apart...  ... It would also help if the MP at the right front of the jeep didn't look like he was about to draw down on the halftrack, the gunner was working with his observer and the guys didn't have their backs to the German positions

With all due sincere respect to your perspective and knowledge, Hans, that's overthinking the dio. Most people are not going to even come close to considering those elements, and honestly, as a ordinary, rather dull civilian myself, I look at the placement of these figures and elements and think that it's all very plausible. I could see the driver of the jeep being a hothead who drove up close to the halftrack to scream at him to get out of the way. Or maybe, to use the halftrack as a bit of a "safety barrier" to hide behind? And who cannot say that at any given moment in time, that several soldiers in the heat of an exchange or battle wouldn't find themselves in exactly those poses--talking, yelling directions, just turning their heads to look hither, thither, and yon?

I used to be a huge critic of MM, until I realized what his schtick is, and I'm not going to get into the business of opening up the can of worms about why or how he acquires his collection, but I do believe that the forum members here really do hold his contributions to a higher standard than others, if only to knock him. If this dio were presented by another modeler here, the criticisms would still be valid, but I believe not heaped upon the dio in such a gratuitous fashion.

WHile I do sincerely respect those with a better eye, and more experience than I regarding combat situations, I take this dio for what it is--a nice scene, competently finished, with the few expected overlooked small errors from a man who turns out dozens of these things a year, and who is more than likely, a simple civilian like me who would not have the perspective of a military man, and whose goal is primarily output, not necessarily absolute fidelity to 100% accuracy.

And besides--he really has improved his work from the two years that I've seen him posting. He really does turn out some very nicely finished models.

WOW- who has looked at the website?  It's unbelievable the # of models this guy has!!!  His place looks like a museum and and hobby shop combined!  Beautiful!  Congratulations!  I wish I had one tenth of that space to display my models and dioramas.  Mine are mostly in boxes in a closet. Of course I probably have about one twentieth of what he has. 

- A comment about posting and criticism: if you post a photo, expect criticism, and take it as constructive criticism.  

- A comment about dioramas: I believe that a diorama should tell a story: drama, humor, irony, etc., and that story should be clearly percievable without additional explaination.  If there's no clear story, OK, that's fine, but it's not a diorama, it's a display. 

Steve B

PaintsWithBrush wrote:

I agree with wirraway, the power pole looks too pristine. I very much like the rust work on the half-track, however. I am curious about something else, not related to this specific diorama. I have seen other postings of yours (modelmaniac) and am wondering, are these works being displayed at your personal home or do you have a separate building devoted to them? I have seen the extensive shelving in some of your pictures but have never noticed where exactly they are. Perhaps you have included that information in the past and I just missed it because I haven't been coming to this site for very long. You seem to building your own personal shrine to the hobby of scale modeling through the efforts of your builders. For that fact alone I shall risk the wrath of the site and say "Good for you on that note".

Thanks, PaintsWithBrush, for your kind comments and inquiry about my collection. They are displayed in my house mainly at 3 locations - in my bedroom, at the side of my house, and in the show room at the back of my house. The show room is a separate building devoted to them, it's 3 years old and almost full. This page shows them in brief: http://www.falconbbs.com/model38j.htm 

 

Division 6 wrote:

I think the title comes from the sign in this picture.

You're right! First I thought I'd name it "Clearing the pole" because it seems to me that the halftrack is going to level the pole using its left side as bumper. But when I saw the sign in the very last picture, I changed my mind. Those who wonder about the title will know finally. ;-)

 

the doog wrote:

From what I can see in these two photos, I honestly think it looks great -the two vehicles look competently finished, the soldiers are nicely painted, and even though the scene lacks a real evident "plot line", I've definitely seen much worse from both AI and other modelers. I think I'm with MountainDew on this one. I like it, No reservations. *EDIT*--Ok, I just checked out the additional photos on MM's page there. C'mon, guys--ideological objections aside, this really IS a well-executed scene. The figures are really beautifully done, and the vehicles as well. The wall and the ivy on it are really well done. The painting is very competently done; the only weird thing is the track sag, but the rest of the scene is really nice, if admittedly lacking a real story line. Judging it strictly on the elements, it gets a thumbs up from me.

Thanks so much, Karl, for your kind compliments on this dio! AI has got some justice from your comments. 

PaintsWithBrush wrote:

I agree with wirraway, the power pole looks too pristine. I very much like the rust work on the half-track, however. I am curious about something else, not related to this specific diorama. I have seen other postings of yours (modelmaniac) and am wondering, are these works being displayed at your personal home or do you have a separate building devoted to them? I have seen the extensive shelving in some of your pictures but have never noticed where exactly they are. Perhaps you have included that information in the past and I just missed it because I haven't been coming to this site for very long. You seem to building your own personal shrine to the hobby of scale modeling through the efforts of your builders. For that fact alone I shall risk the wrath of the site and say "Good for you on that note".

Thanks, PaintsWithBrush, for your kind comments and inquiry about my collection. They are displayed in my house mainly at 3 locations - in my bedroom, at the side of my house, and in the show room at the back of my house. The show room is a separate building devoted to them, it's 3 years old and almost full. This page shows them in brief: http://www.falconbbs.com/model38j.htm 

 

Division 6 wrote:

I think the title comes from the sign in this picture.

You're right! First I thought I'd name it "Clearing the pole" because it seems to me that the halftrack is going to level the pole using its left side as bumper. But when I saw the sign in the very last picture, I changed my mind. Those who wonder about the title will know finally. ;-)

 

the doog wrote:

From what I can see in these two photos, I honestly think it looks great -the two vehicles look competently finished, the soldiers are nicely painted, and even though the scene lacks a real evident "plot line", I've definitely seen much worse from both AI and other modelers. I think I'm with MountainDew on this one. I like it, No reservations. *EDIT*--Ok, I just checked out the additional photos on MM's page there. C'mon, guys--ideological objections aside, this really IS a well-executed scene. The figures are really beautifully done, and the vehicles as well. The wall and the ivy on it are really well done. The painting is very competently done; the only weird thing is the track sag, but the rest of the scene is really nice, if admittedly lacking a real story line. Judging it strictly on the elements, it gets a thumbs up from me.

Thanks so much, Karl, for your kind compliments on this dio! AI has got some justice from your comments. 

 

the two vehicles look competently finished, the soldiers are nicely painted/The wall and the ivy on it are really well done. The painting is very competently done

I agree Doog... Each element, by itself, is pretty good.  Each one would look outstanding on a shelf. But we're supposed to believe (or rather engage the "willing suspension of dis-belief") that all of them are together, interacting with each other, on the side of a non-descipt German road in 1945 and they're from an ADA battalion 500 yards from the enemy... This is where it falls apart... 

It would be quite fixable with the turning of some heads, repostioning some arms, changing a vehicle position, and pulling some color up from the ground with some pastel-work to tie everything together... It would also help if the MP at the right front of the jeep didn't look like he was about to draw down on the halftrack, the gunner was working with his observer and the guys didn't have their backs to the German positions (The sign establishes roughly where Jerry is and in which direction).  After all, each one of 'em is well within the max effective range of a K-98 Mauser. 

Those last couple things may not be readily apparent to a civilian, but they SCREAM at me... 

At any rate, it's fixable, if MM agrees that it's broke (not much chance there IMHO ), and would go a long way in helping AI round up these loose ends that he leaves...

I don't know about y'all, but I plan my dioramas meticulously, writing up and sketching the plans, and measuring and checking each component against the others for position and flow, and then give a 15-minute Power Point briefing to the wife.   Then halfway through construction, I'll also end up using plans B, C, D, & F... That's because [i]Murphy's Laws of Combat[i] #17 "No plan survives execution" applies to modelers as well...  That's why I've only finished two dioramas in eight months... Ba-BUM! *tisshhh*...

Oh, I was kidding about the Power Point brief... It's only 4 minutes...

 

 

From what I can see in these two photos, I honestly think it looks great--the two vehicles look competently finished, the soldiers are nicely painted, and even though the scene lacks a real evident "plot line", I've definitely seen much worse from both AI and other modelers.

I think I'm with MountainDew on this one. I like it, No reservations.

*EDIT*--Ok, I just checked out the additional photos on MM's page there. C'mon, guys--ideological objections aside, this really IS a well-executed scene.

The figures are really beautifully done, and the vehicles as well. The wall and the ivy on it are really well done. The painting is very competently done; the only weird thing is the track sag, but the rest of the scene is really nice, if admittedly lacking a real story line. Judging it strictly on the elements, it gets a thumbs up from me.

 

Ah, thanks, Eric... Good eye... I once saw that sign in a photo... It was in a British position though..

Fine. You guys are right and I'm wrong.

I think the title comes from the sign in this picture.

 

Eric... 

I agree with wirraway, the power pole looks too pristine. I very much like the rust work on the half-track, however. I am curious about something else, not related to this specific diorama. I have seen other postings of yours (modelmaniac) and am wondering, are these works being displayed at your personal home or do you have a separate building devoted to them? I have seen the extensive shelving in some of your pictures but have never noticed where exactly they are. Perhaps you have included that information in the past and I just missed it because I haven't been coming to this site for very long. You seem to building your own personal shrine to the hobby of scale modeling through the efforts of your builders. For that fact alone I shall risk the wrath of the site and say "Good for you on that note".

The passenger is a medic...I don't think he should have a gun, but I'd let that pass, because I think some level of medic may have been allowed to be armed.

In WW2, the Doc had a choice of going armed with a defensive weapon (that means a pistol. A rifle is an offensive weapon) or no weapon at all.  He could use the weapon only to defend himself or his patient.  Otherwise, he was a non-combatant...

MountainDew wrote:

The construction on the models looks excellent.

I was going to stay out of this fray (there's always one, isn't there?) but I have to say, actually, they're not.

Big pin ejector mark on the driver's and passenger's  "windows" on the M16.

Seam on the Thompson stock.

Jeep windshield is uneven, bigger gap on the driver's side than the passenger's side.

Seam on the M16's tow hook,

Tracks shouldn't sag.

Packs hang without attachment points.

Silvering on the jeep's decals has not been hidden,

Seams on the mechanism in the middle of the Maxon turret.

Poor attachment point on the tracks.

Jeep's Gerry can handles don't line up with the body of the can.

Poorly painted tail lights on the M16.

Star and B242 decals on the back of the M16 are not level.

There are no wires from the insulators on the telephone pole.

The rear road wheel on the passenger's side is floating.

The front tires of the M16 are turned at different angles.

Seam and ejector pin mark on the telephone pole.

These are all objective errors as opposed to things that are subjective, such as the (non) story line...

No figure is interacting with any other figure. There is a gunner in the Maxon, which would be small and uncomfortable, suggesting he has a target, but no one else is showing any sense of urgency. The driver suggests the M16 is in motion, but would be turning into the jeep. Turning the wheel on such a large vehicle (without power steering would take two hands). The radio operator is sitting in cramped quarters with his entrenching tool still attached to his web gear. I think that would be quite uncomfortable. Also, while they are the kit Gerry cans which Tamiya has never corrected, the M16's Gerry cans should be corrected to have three handles instead of the two provided. The passenger is a medic...I don't think he should have a gun, but I'd let that pass, because I think some level of medic may have been allowed to be armed.

It can't feel good to post your work in a public forum and have it criticized.

Hopefully the criticism gets back to AI... I don't know if it does, but it's likely it doesn't, or he doesn't care about changing things.. But the community overall reads here too, and pointing out problems keep new guys from making the same mistakes on their work...

Art Instructor did an excelent job with the vehicles. I admire the work and think it to be praiseworthy.

It doesn't matter how good a job you do on one or two parts of a diorama... Everything on the base is part & parcel of the larger whole... If any component of a dio is not as well done as the rest, it's gone from a great diorama to a fair diorama... Great vehicles with lousy figures, kill the dio, lousy groundwork with great figures a good vehicles kill it...  Same as if you did a stand-alone shelf-dweller... You can have the best paint & weathering anyone's ever seen, but if there are glue smears, seams, cracks, missing parts, etc., the build is a bust...

Dunno about you, but that's exactly reason I post my work here, to get more eyeballs on it to see the things I missed... I also do it to test the idea... If the the folks don't get the story I came up with right away, if they're confused about what I'm trying to depict, it's a pretty good indicator that I need to re-think my idea and make some changes...  It also helps a lot to point my rookie mistakes... Sometimes I just don't see them until it's too late... Ever spot a fingerprint you didn't see until after you're set up on the table and the judges are about to start?

Constructive criticism is what I'm after... If you see a problem, you best point it out to me... If you point it out to me, suggest a possible solution...  I try to do the same for other folks...  

 

Withdrawn.

It looks nice, but I don't get it....  what the heck are we looking at?  Where is the story?

MountainDew wrote:

The construction on the models looks excellent. Very nice work. Bravo Zulu to you sir!

Hans,  Do you want to tell him, or should I ?    

Withdrawn.

Huxy wrote:

And it doesen't look like a road, so why would there be a roadsign there?

It looks to me as if the road is front of the halftrack... So a roadsign's in order there...  I'm not sure what the MP's are doing there, no one in the track is acknowleging their being there (not THAT uncommon, though),  nor am I sure if the track is there in it's firing position, or if it's about to move out of one and onto the road... On the track itself, that left track is showing some space under it on the rocks, more than I'd allow (I'd run a screw down through the track's bed under the turret and into the base to pull the tracks tight against the groundwork and make the suspension look "sprung" and that there's a lot of weight there), and the tires are in need of dust/dirt on the treads as well as in between the tread lugs...  Then there's the ongoing problem with ground color not being carried up onto the vehicles track & tires, and the figures' boots.

The jeep appears to waiting for it to move, perhaps to follow it to another pos, I dunno... Can't figure the MPs though, they puzzle me..  Overall, it looks good, but the title escapes me completely, the build needs some attention to detail and tightening of what the heck's goin' on...

The sign's a good touch in establishing the locale though... 

 

 

I agree on the sag....  And it doesen't look like a road, so why would there be a roadsign there?

 

But I think for most of it, it is rather nice.

I'd like to see that pole a bit more dinged up.  If it got to that angle, its either been hit by incoming or run into  by a vehicle.  Dont know about the track sag on the M16 ?  I thought the inside of the tracks could be more weathered.  Whats the significance of the title ?