WIP dio:"Counterattack!" *update 6-6*

stikpusher wrote:

Ardennes or Hungary? I know, we have to wait....

Sheesh, MAnny--I've never seen such incredibly consistent figures--you've seriously outdone yourself with these! WOW!

Mansteins revenge wrote:

     Must... pull... myself ...away ...from monitor... cant ...stop... looking

Thanks everyone!!! I'll be trying to build this one to AMPS standards, so all feedback is greatly appreciated...it will feature at least three vehicles/heavy guns in it...

Don't forget the dog!!!

But in all seriousness, sounds like quite the counterattack. For such a heavy amount of vehicles/guns I think I like the minimal approach with the figures, could keep things a little easier to follow (even if a tad unrealistic) or was this just the first batch of figures done?

I know a lot of your dios have a realistic amount of figures compared to one or two vehicles- but then were looking at a small army! ...sorry, bad pun intended.

While I do like the fact that you accurately reproduce photographs and actual historical personalities, I think if you’re in an AMPS state of mind, the focus on more of an "artistic license" and "character flow" might work out better for you? (Not that I’ve ever even seen AMPS... so... )

Regardless- I’m definitely looking forward to seeing this one.

Screw it... I'm just gonna mail my SS guys to ya Manny... Or stick with Mausgrau uniforms..

Umm... The only AMPS I'm familiar with is the electrical kind... Can you point me in the direction of those Standards?

psstoff995 wrote:

Thanks everyone!!! I'll be trying to build this one to AMPS standards, so all feedback is greatly appreciated...it will feature at least three vehicles/heavy guns in it... Don't forget the dog!!! But in all seriousness, sounds like quite the counterattack. For such a heavy amount of vehicles/guns I think I like the minimal approach with the figures, could keep things a little easier to follow (even if a tad unrealistic) or was this just the first batch of figures done? I know a lot of your dios have a realistic amount of figures compared to one or two vehicles- but then were looking at a small army! ...sorry, bad pun intended. While I do like the fact that you accurately reproduce photographs and actual historical personalities, I think if you’re in an AMPS state of mind, the focus on more of an "artistic license" and "character flow" might work out better for you? (Not that I’ve ever even seen AMPS... so... ) Regardless- I’m definitely looking forward to seeing this one.

Very cool! I have a similar dio planned to be honest. I’m using a sdkfz 234/4 with the pak 40 of the Wiking and they’re going to be at the extent of their probe mission, covering the retreat of a few Panzergrenadiers.
Mine is based off of this line from Wiking’s wiki page “By 12 January, the Westland Regiment had reached Pilszentkereszt, barely 20 kilometers from Buda. That morning the Wiking panzergrenadiers spotted the church spires and turrets of the distinctive Budapest skyline poking through the morning fog. Despite its success, the Wiking, overextended and vulnerable, was unable to exploit its breakthrough and was eventually ordered to pull back and regroup.” So the whole idea was to portray that sense of being right there, so close you can almost touch it, but then having to pull back.

Your pair of 250’s should be balanced out very nicely by the Russian 76.2 piece and the dead soldier. The only thing I might say is all your figures so far look like they’re standing around for a very dramatic war-time picture. I think if you take the next two figures, and make them a little over exaggerated, digging through the 76.2mm ammo or looking through some satchels or something- to really get that point of their dismount to gather intel across. I like the few groups looking at maps and discussing future plans, but it looks a little bit... uninvolved? I don’t know, like the figures are too self assured. I think that’s a good perspective on Germanys stance on the war, but I think it might look a little more realistic if they almost looked a little surprised that their small recon unit just overran a Soviet gun emplacement. Maybe if you don’t want the figures digging through the emplacement/dead soldier, maybe have one or two sitting down, maybe catching their breath, letting the adrenaline come back down to normal. The poses look more like a war game as opposed to just after a battle, there’s that sense that everything is perfectly fine.

**Not meaning to criticize your figures- the fact that this comes across goes to show how well you’re figure painting abilities really are, it’s not a question of realism or getting the right colors or poses, at this point the only thing I’d change is the mood of the figures, and I think your figures are so amazing, you have the ability to change the mood of a piece with your figure painting and positioning- like Death in the Courtyard- the kind of realism and sense of urgency you put into the US figures was what really nailed it IMHO

Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say I guess is at this point, it’s about what you want to portray. If you want a bunch of confidant officers discussing their next movie like it’s a chess game, I really like the figures, but if you want a bunch of front line soldiers that respect the Soviets for their ability to dig in and hold on to ground and are a little shocked that they’ve pushed this far, I think you might need to rough them up a bit around the edges, you know? This is just my opinion, I really like the concept and I’m looking forward to seeing your armor and the gun- the ratio of vehicles to figures is good, seams simple enough for the size and realistic enough for the amount of vehicles/crew involved. 

psstoff995 wrote:

Very cool! I have a similar dio planned to be honest. I’m using a sdkfz 234/4 with the pak 40 of the Wiking and they’re going to be at the extent of their probe mission, covering the retreat of a few Panzergrenadiers. Mine is based off of this line from Wiking’s wiki page “By 12 January, the Westland Regiment had reached Pilszentkereszt, barely 20 kilometers from Buda. That morning the Wiking panzergrenadiers spotted the church spires and turrets of the distinctive Budapest skyline poking through the morning fog. Despite its success, the Wiking, overextended and vulnerable, was unable to exploit its breakthrough and was eventually ordered to pull back and regroup.” So the whole idea was to portray that sense of being right there, so close you can almost touch it, but then having to pull back. Your pair of 250’s should be balanced out very nicely by the Russian 76.2 piece and the dead soldier. The only thing I might say is all your figures so far look like they’re standing around for a very dramatic war-time picture. I think if you take the next two figures, and make them a little over exaggerated, digging through the 76.2mm ammo or looking through some satchels or something- to really get that point of their dismount to gather intel across. I like the few groups looking at maps and discussing future plans, but it looks a little bit... uninvolved? I don’t know, like the figures are too self assured. I think that’s a good perspective on Germanys stance on the war, but I think it might look a little more realistic if they almost looked a little surprised that their small recon unit just overran a Soviet gun emplacement. Maybe if you don’t want the figures digging through the emplacement/dead soldier, maybe have one or two sitting down, maybe catching their breath, letting the adrenaline come back down to normal. The poses look more like a war game as opposed to just after a battle, there’s that sense that everything is perfectly fine. **Not meaning to criticize your figures- the fact that this comes across goes to show how well you’re figure painting abilities really are, it’s not a question of realism or getting the right colors or poses, at this point the only thing I’d change is the mood of the figures, and I think your figures are so amazing, you have the ability to change the mood of a piece with your figure painting and positioning- like Death in the Courtyard- the kind of realism and sense of urgency you put into the US figures was what really nailed it IMHO Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say I guess is at this point, it’s about what you want to portray. If you want a bunch of confidant officers discussing their next movie like it’s a chess game, I really like the figures, but if you want a bunch of front line soldiers that respect the Soviets for their ability to dig in and hold on to ground and are a little shocked that they’ve pushed this far, I think you might need to rough them up a bit around the edges, you know? This is just my opinion, I really like the concept and I’m looking forward to seeing your armor and the gun- the ratio of vehicles to figures is good, seams simple enough for the size and realistic enough for the amount of vehicles/crew involved.

Very glad to help out Manny, glad it all made sense. Good luck on the next two figures, I’m excited to see what you do with them.

I wouldn't say "working" per say... I have the kits, but it’s all still in the box and I’m currently in the planning stage...

From the research I’ve don’t involved with the planning of this one, I’ll admit I’ve been very impressed with their history. The Battle of Budapest is one of my favorite parts of the Eastern Front history, the Soviet Army of WWII didn’t have much to rally around but this was a definitive part of their campaign. The Wiking grouped up with the Totenkopf in this effort and I really got onto the dio idea from the history of the vehicle and I had the Totenkopf Budapest 1/35 figure kit from Dragon and their Winter Grenaders Wiking kit, these were bought because I liked the figures, liked the poses, they looked like they had some good story behind them, and I was right. Most dios I buy kits for them, but this one was just a collection of random stash items coming together- it was pretty cool.

I was thinking about a Russian casualty from a "day prior" perhaps but I’m not sure- I’ll have to wait and see how yours looks.

I also have another Budapest dio from a Russian perspective, a buch of classic tank riders dismounting from an SU-100 to clear out some light German resistance in an urban kind of setting.

Continuing to work on my new dio entitled "Counterattack", which will depict German operations in the relief attempt on Budapest in early 1945---the last major german offensive of the war. This dio represents elements from 5th SS (Wiking) Panzer Division's recon unit probing Soviet positions ahead of the main element...I chose Wiking because it served exclusively on the Eatern front and is regarded by many historian to be the most feared and effective German Division of the entire war...

I began thinking that I would have two vehicles (a 250/8 and a 259/9)...

...on the base along w/ Miniart's 76.2 field gun, but after placing the gun on the base relized that the deployed trailing arms take up a LOT of space...I think I may have solved it with the placement (in front) shown in this pic:

Still leaves room for the other halftrack behind the first one (a sdkfz 250/9 Neu)...

Or...I could downgrade the Soviet position to a heavy MG nest:

The bulk of the figs will be outside of the tracks assesing the situation after the firefight with the Russkies...a few will be milling about the destroyed position...I have 2 more figs still undergoing painting...

Need some composition input guys !!!

Manny

I REALLY like your work on this one.  As everyone has said, your figs are.... WOW!

Just one thing - looking at the pics you have, I get the same feel as you mentioned with MM's recent dio - you could cut it in half and have two seperate dios.  I don't think the two troopers approaching the KIA are interacting well with the cluster of guys hanging out by the vehicle.  Unless there is going to be some sort of terrain to sort of segregate them to explain the somewhat cautious nature of the two, versus the casual aspect of the larger group.  I know you are still in the planning stage for your layout, so I hope you find this helpful.

By the way, as to which Russian gun to use, I really like the big AT gun.  The only probem is, as you say, with those arms extended, it really dominates the scene and kind of forces the halftrack to become almost an afterthought.  With the MG, you might be able to have to halftrack(s) more front and center.

As always, I can't wait to see more of your progress on this.

One other thought... as I looked over your photos a second time, I was again struck by the sense that the vehicle seems kind of out of place.  None of your figures is interacting with it (and I realize a lot of this may be taken care of with your ground work and final placement and such, but it really did jump out at me).

So, what I might suggest, for example, is to have a figure in the vehicle, leaning out to talk to one of the men in the group, or have the hatch open and a fig standing next to it to imply he just climbed out.  You mentioned they have just had a firefight and taken out the Russian position - maybe have a crewman tossing out some expended shells or reloading the MG - something to make the vehicle more involved in the scene...

Also, in the second to last pic that shows the two SS troopers in the background behind the vehicle - I am assuming that you placed them there to get them out of the scene?  If not, I would discourage that layout - it really would break down into three distinct and disjointed scenes in one, IMHO.

Once again, Manny, these are just some thoughts I had as I looked your photos over.  I know how much thought and consideration you put into your dios and I hope some of my observations might be useful.  I'm always anxious to see the progression of your work, so I'll be tuning in to see more of this.

Keep up the good work!

One final thing, and then I promise to shut up for a minute.  As I looked your pics over the a third time, another thing jumped out at me:

That 250/8 you built is AWESOME!  Holy cow man, when I really took the time to appreciate it, WOW!  I love the camo scheme, the light weathering (so far...?).  Just an all around beautiful build!

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up your skirt when I say that, the combination of that vehicle and your figs really have me excited about this project!

OK, I'm done....