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Photos of My B-17 Crash Diorama

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  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Boston MA
Posted by vespa boy on Monday, January 16, 2012 10:04 AM

that is fun...a 1:1 model of a model. I bet you learned a lot from studying the original and making your copy. Nice work.

http://public.fotki.com/nkhandekar

This ain't no Mudd Club, or C.B.G.B.,
I ain't got time for that now

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 16, 2012 12:42 AM

Just to set things straight, neither this dio nor Shep's were of a B-17 crash-landing...  The dios were of a B-17 that suffered a right-main failure while taxiing, which caused it to swerve off the taxi-way and into the grass..... That's why there is little or no damage to the ball-turret...  B-17s generally taxied with only the outboard engines running...

The Sperry Ball-turret was retractable in the B-24, however neither the the B-24 nor the B-17 turrets were "jettisonable", so in a crash-landing or ditching, they stayed in the aircraft...  ( The B-24 was a notoriously "bad-ditching" aircraft, BTW, because of the fragile nose and high-wing design.)

It was only manned once the aircraft entered hostile airspace or upon command.. The turret was rotated by hand so the guns pointed down during ingress and egress, and the gunner sat with his back against the closed hatch....The rest of the time the gunner was stationed inside the fuselage... His seat was located in the radio compartment where he sat during T/O and Landings.

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, December 23, 2011 11:14 AM

That's COOL! I love it!

This is a great example of what a dio should be in terms of composition--a simple story line, and all elements supporting it; the model placed at an angle to the base sides, and not a lot of extra visual baggage. Even though it's not YOUR composition, per se, it's a good lesson for other viewers to contemplate.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco, CA
Posted by telsono on Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:46 PM

reasoned - It was Keifer Sutherland who played the ball gunner "Static". For some reason I had thought it was Mark Hamill.

I had seen one of the models that they used to make the film. It was displayed by a hobby shop in the Fresno, CA area. The model had a wing span of almost 10 feet by my memory. Not sure of its present location as that was a good 15 years ago.

Mike T.

 

Beware the hobby that eats.  - Ben Franklin

Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Ben Franklin

The U.S. Constitution  doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Ben Franklin

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Bent River, IA
Posted by Reasoned on Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:38 PM

telsono

Remember that old Amazing Stories episode, "The Mission" where there was a ball turret gunner on a crippled B-17 and the turret was stuck?

That was a classic.  Wasn't that guy from "Rudy" the gunner? 

BTW, terrific dioBeer

Science is the pursiut of knowledge, faith is the pursuit of wisdom.  Peace be with you.

On the Tarmac: 1/48 Revell P-38

In the Hanger: A bunch of kits

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco, CA
Posted by telsono on Thursday, December 22, 2011 2:59 PM

Smeagol brings up a good point. It was common practice to drop the ball turret if the aircraft was making a belly landing or had landing gear problems. If not, besides smashing the turret, of course they would get the gunner out if they could, the supporting structure of the ball turret connects to the aircraft frame and would cause the back to break. This made the aircraft scrap metal. A plane like you show would be consider salvageable otherwise. I believe it was policy to jetison it if the landing was going to be tricky at best, land or water.

Remember that old Amazing Stories episode, "The Mission" where there was a ball turret gunner on a crippled B-17 and the turret was stuck?

Mike T.

Beware the hobby that eats.  - Ben Franklin

Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Ben Franklin

The U.S. Constitution  doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Ben Franklin

  • Member since
    December 2010
Posted by Phillip1 on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:51 AM

Fellow Modelers,

 

For anyone interested in how I built this diorama there is an article on it in Fine Scale Modeler’s Special Edition “Build Better Model Aircraft-Holiday 2011” magazine on sale at bookstores/newsstands now.  Almost all of the photos in the article are construction photos.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Phillip1

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by Biggles-of-202 on Monday, March 14, 2011 12:03 AM

I haven't seen the Shep Paine diorama of this subject (will look it up) but that is not necessary to acknowledge that this is a masterful piece of work in its own right.  It has all the elements of a good diorama:  interesting subject, dynamism, a touch of history.  It leaves the viewer asking questions:  what happened to bring about this result,  what acts of airmanship or heroism brought them home, who survived and who died.  It encapsulates the time and place.  I doff my flying helmet in recognition of your work.

Cheers,

Biggles

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 5:28 PM

Phillip1

Thanks for the kind words on my diorama.  They are appreciated.  Concerning the ball turret, I agree that if both main landing gear failed the turret would be crushed and the gunner killed (if he was inside).  On this diorama only one main gear failed, so as long as both remaining tires stay inflated the ball turret would suffer only minor damage.  One example I referenced is in Squadron/Signal's book "B-17 Flying Fortress In Color".  On page 28 they have a picture of a B-17 (Madam Shoo Shoo) that landed with one main gear failure.  The caption for the photo says the ball turret suffered no damage at all in the landing. 

Also, in Sheperd Paine's original diorama the ball turret on his plane was not crushed, and he is a pretty good researcher on details like this.  Since the plane in my diorame slid off the runway I would think the ball turret did suffer some damage from the grass and dirt.  This may have cracked some plexiglass and bent some framing, but I still do not think it would have been crushed.  Either way (like mentioned above) the ball turret gunner would not have been killed since he would not have been at that station during the landing.  The ball turret position was cramped and uncomfortable and the only time the gunners manned them was when the aircraft was in the combat zone.  The only situtation I can think of where the ball turret would be manned during a landing would be if the turret was damaged and could not rotate to line up the exit hatch with the fuselage.  My two cents worth anyway...

Thanks

Phillip1

 

Agreed. Either it hapenned or did not. In this case it did not. Again, great job!Beer .

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2010
Posted by Phillip1 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 4:44 PM

Thanks for the kind words on my diorama.  They are appreciated.  Concerning the ball turret, I agree that if both main landing gear failed the turret would be crushed and the gunner killed (if he was inside).  On this diorama only one main gear failed, so as long as both remaining tires stay inflated the ball turret would suffer only minor damage.  One example I referenced is in Squadron/Signal's book "B-17 Flying Fortress In Color".  On page 28 they have a picture of a B-17 (Madam Shoo Shoo) that landed with one main gear failure.  The caption for the photo says the ball turret suffered no damage at all in the landing. 

Also, in Sheperd Paine's original diorama the ball turret on his plane was not crushed, and he is a pretty good researcher on details like this.  Since the plane in my diorame slid off the runway I would think the ball turret did suffer some damage from the grass and dirt.  This may have cracked some plexiglass and bent some framing, but I still do not think it would have been crushed.  Either way (like mentioned above) the ball turret gunner would not have been killed since he would not have been at that station during the landing.  The ball turret position was cramped and uncomfortable and the only time the gunners manned them was when the aircraft was in the combat zone.  The only situtation I can think of where the ball turret would be manned during a landing would be if the turret was damaged and could not rotate to line up the exit hatch with the fuselage.  My two cents worth anyway...

Thanks

Phillip1

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Monday, March 7, 2011 12:57 PM

I don't know how I missed this one...but nice build!


13151015

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Monday, March 7, 2011 12:51 PM

Very nice Phillip,,,  you did a great job with it

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Wisconsin, Appleton
Posted by autovomatic88 on Monday, March 7, 2011 12:40 PM

That my friend is amazing..... I love it. All it needs is a meat wagon. I think. But it is impressive :) 

"Mark VI, and we've got it by the ass."

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: The Great North Woods, Maine
Posted by Chazzer on Sunday, March 6, 2011 12:48 PM

 #1 Trophy SWEET!!





ChazzerBlack Eye

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:25 PM

smeagol the vile

Nice work, but if I may inquire...

How is the ball turret on the belly of the plane still intact?  Im pretty sure landing like that without gears would destroy it and kill the gunner

 

You have a good point there, good eyes. The ball turret would have been crushed up into the belly and the turret mechanism would have punctured the top of the fuse and partially stuck out. The gunner wouldn't have been in the ball turret during take offs and landings dueto the danger of a collapsed gear. Obviously if the gunner was wounded and trapped in there then its a diferent story as I'm sure hapenned many times. Other than that, it looks pretty darn good.SmileBeer

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:56 PM

Great work!

I read in a display in Nanton, AB that crashed planes are much harder to model than intact planes.

I will certainly try to get a copy of the issue with the article!

James

007
  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by 007 on Sunday, February 13, 2011 11:42 PM

Just got to love a b17 diorama, i think a pic like that got me started.

great workSmile

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Friday, February 11, 2011 10:50 PM

Nice work, but if I may inquire...

How is the ball turret on the belly of the plane still intact?  Im pretty sure landing like that without gears would destroy it and kill the gunner

 

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by spadx111 on Friday, February 4, 2011 7:42 PM

Yes nice work enjoyed it.Ron

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Friday, February 4, 2011 3:36 PM

I think you've done Shep proud!  Nice work!!

  

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: NW Washington
Posted by dirkpitt77 on Friday, February 4, 2011 3:03 PM

Gorgeous!

    "Some say the alien didn't die in the crash.  It survived and drank whiskey and played poker with the locals 'til the Texas Rangers caught wind of it and shot it dead."

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted by Buckeye on Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:43 AM

Really awesome work there!Bow Down

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Bournemouth UK
Posted by Bodge on Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:35 AM

I love it, its very well done and realistic too, top marks.Yes

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: SURREY ,B.C.
Posted by krow113 on Saturday, January 29, 2011 12:40 PM

Excellent effort , a trip down memory lane...

Thank you ,Krow113

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Saturday, January 29, 2011 10:09 AM

I_AM_THE_GREATEST

Great work!Bow Down Im not sure though, i think there is only one engine skid mark. Still, really good recreation

??

Doesn't have to be an exact one-to-one replica does it?

I thing it looks pretty sharp...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Saturday, January 29, 2011 9:52 AM

Ditto  You have made Shep proud.  It would be great if you can post more pictures because I enjoyed them.  Big Smile

Andy

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: A Spartan in the Wolverine State
Posted by rjkplasticmod on Saturday, January 29, 2011 8:13 AM

Beautiful Dio Yes.  Shep Paine should be impressed.

Regards,  Rick

RICK At My Age, I've Seen It All, Done It All, But I Don't Remember It All...
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lafayette la
Posted by 40.mm on Friday, January 28, 2011 10:53 PM

outstanding job, keep it up

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