SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

What to use for a ceiling

3158 views
22 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
What to use for a ceiling
Posted by Bish on Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:29 PM

I am currently doing a 1/35th diorama which includes a damaged house. I want to put in a wooden flloor, but while i ma happy what to do for the support beams and floor boards, i am not sure what to do about the ceiling. I have been searching on google but can't find any tips on adding the interiour of a building and a lot of dio houses seem to mis out the ceiling or have a concrete floor.

So, any suggestions of adding a ceiling. I am currently considering sheet styrene or cardboard, but not sure they would have the right texture or thicknes.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Sunday, August 28, 2016 6:19 PM

Damaged house. Era ? If its a damaged ceiling I'd probably show lathing and plaster.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, August 28, 2016 6:40 PM

Its a WW2 scene, so i guess the house could be early century. I know plaster board was in use before WW2, but not sure what they had before that. This is the house,

I want to add the remains of the floor/ceiling.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Sunday, August 28, 2016 7:32 PM

Bish,

not sure if this would help:

I'll post more if i find some.

 

Here is another:

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Monday, August 29, 2016 11:51 AM

I zoomed in on the third picture above from hogfanfs and between the wardens on the 2nd floor is a section of what I think is the ceiling, the strips of lathing nailed to the joists. The first floor ceiling is unviewable due the the carrying beam, but the construction would be the same. 

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 29, 2016 12:11 PM

Thanks for the comments guys, and the pics, those are really handy.

I do live in a house built in the 1930's, thoug i am not sure how much of the interiour is original. I have worked with modern plasterboard, so i have a god idea of the texture and thickness. I think i might go with a couple of bits of cardboard glued together. I am going to have a small section of the floor between the ground and first floor in place between the side walls, but i reckon as long as there is something there for a ceiling, that should suffice.

Thanks again guys.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, August 29, 2016 12:43 PM

Bish,

I owned and remodeled 3 houses which were built in 1910, 1915 and 1917. The 1910 and 1915 had wood lath and plaster and the 1917 had metal lath (chicken wire). They were in Montana, Idaho and California respectively.  All the electrical were knob and tube which ran two separate wires (hot and neutral) along glass knobs and tubes. Admittedly they were built in the US however this is what I ran into for a century old house.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 29, 2016 12:55 PM

Steve, your a diamond. I have not herad the term lath and plaster before. But when i checked, i realised i have worked on houses with ceilings like that. I can't find any info on mainland Europe, but that was in use in the UK until the 30's when plasterboard was introduced. I can definatly use some thin cardboard for the intact plaster and balsa strips for the lath.

Perfect, thank you.

It would not surprise me if thats what our ceilings have, but given the asbestos, i don't plan on takeing a close look.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, August 29, 2016 2:18 PM

Bish
It would not surprise me if thats what our ceilings have, but given the asbestos, i don't plan on takeing a close look.

Smart, if we, in the US, sell an older house these days (70's or older) it is assumed that it has Asbestos and lead paint. We have to disclose it if it was not remodeled and we are sure. All they have us do though is just paint over it and call it good. The owner can tear it out if they are brave enough but it is a fortune to hire someone to do it. I tore all my walls and ceilings out while wearing a bunny suit and respirator. Hot work.

I'm glad to help you out.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 29, 2016 2:45 PM

I think its the same here. We live in a council house and we have a plan which tells us where the asbestos is or might be. The general rule over here is if it isn't damaged, leave it alone. I did tear down an asbestos ceiling once when i worked for my brother and was in the full protective suit. Luckyly it was winter so not to hot.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Monday, August 29, 2016 4:49 PM

My house was built in 1796, no asbestos but certainly horse-hair plaster.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, August 29, 2016 4:58 PM

Hey :

   Now here is something you don't hear every day . Lath and plaster can be simulated in H.O. or 1/35 scale with Evergreen Strip plastic and believe it or not Plaster of Paris . 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Monday, August 29, 2016 6:03 PM

templar1099

My house was built in 1796, no asbestos but certainly horse-hair plaster.

 

What's the "R" value of horsehair?  

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Monday, August 29, 2016 7:48 PM

What's the "R" value of horsehair? [/quote]


Probably 0, but it acted as a binder for the plaster used at the time.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, September 3, 2016 9:17 PM

Split latch & plaster gibes with what I was taught in Architecture school (and have learned in the 38 years hence). 

The lath was split  from various local wood to about a 1/4" to 3/8" dimension (8-10 mm).  The lath was nailed to the supporting structure.  The lathes were abot 1/2" to 3/4" (12-16mm) wide, and spaced about their own width apart.

Plaster was applied over the lath in three coats.  There was a thick initial coat which "bit" in an around the lath.  After that dried a "brown" coat over that flattened out the surfaceand gave it an even plane.  The last coat was the finished coat.  This last coat was into what murals were painted.  Final thickness was about 1 to 1 1/2" (25-30mm).

Ok, fine, This Old House recap useful, but, more to the point, how do we replicate this in 1/35?  Well, 1" is right at 1/32" or 0.7mm in 1/35 (I'm cheating abit and converting from 1/32, or 3/8" = 1'-0" am architectural scale I have a high familiarity with).

For plasterbpard, I've used thin Crescent Board, a product available in the State that is very similar to Bristol board, in being available in both hot and cold pressed face, crescent board also being blue-green on its back.  Thus the white face simulates the finish coat of plaster, the green back the mill face of the blue board..  But, what we want is lath & palster.

So, what I think our brother Bish needs is a bit of bristol board with a moderately rough texture (cold pressed is the stationaries term-of-art), or perhaps a water-colour bristol board--the stitioners will eyeball you funny when you mike their stock a bit--but better that than A, not buying any, or B, bringing it back for being 2mm thick.

Simple answer for the lath would be to use a brown felt tip pen to rulle out some fine lines about 1mm apart.  Then give that an overspary of, say, light gull grey (dust cakes on the top of the ceiling).

Now, lath an plaster when hit with blunt objects (excavators, skid steer loaders, air dropped ordinance) the plaster will come off in chunks, levaing the lath to break where it will.  Similating lath at 1/35 will be vexing. being about 1/64" square--call that .3 tp .25mm.  If we all had, say, Pawel's skills, I suppose we'd go get a 1x3 strip of linden or boxwood, and using a spokeshave or plane to split slivers from the length of it, then pressed into milliput rolled to 0.7mm thick :)

The rest of us might use fine foil or chartpak tape in sutible sizes.  I happen to have a hoarded stockpile of cigar tube spanish cedar veneer which I'd part out using a couple of xacto blades clamoed together.

Maybe some of that will help (I feel like I'm having a Tanker Builder momnet here)

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, September 4, 2016 1:36 AM

WOW, Cap, that some detailed info. Thank you. After reding that several time, i think i have 2 options. Easy option, get some Bristol board and do a more moder plaster board ceiling. For a lath and plaster ceiling, there is styrene strip at 0.75mil wide, i would just need to paint that.

Thanks Cap, i need to get going on the ceiling soon, so i will give that some thought.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Sunday, September 4, 2016 1:58 AM

As an alternative to laying down a lot of 0.75mm strips, you might look at Evergreen V-groove siding sheets. There may be a pattern here to suit.

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Sheets.htm

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, September 4, 2016 4:26 AM

Thanks Phil. But i think i will go with the .75 strip. Its not a big section and it will be largely broken as well with much of the plaster off, so it will be very open to view.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Monday, September 5, 2016 9:51 AM

modelcrazy

  I tore all my walls and ceilings out while wearing a bunny suit and respirator. Hot work.

 

All I can picture....

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, September 5, 2016 11:08 AM

That's funny!!!

Bish, looks like you're getting some good ideas and tips.

You realise now you are obligated to show us how it comes out, right? Smile

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, September 5, 2016 12:14 PM

Greg

That's funny!!!

Bish, looks like you're getting some good ideas and tips.

You realise now you are obligated to show us how it comes out, right? Smile

 

O yes, i know that Greg. Wilkl probably get to the ceiling at the end of the week. I have a lot of work to do on the building, will probably be just as quick to build a real one.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, September 5, 2016 12:15 PM

fermis
 
modelcrazy

  I tore all my walls and ceilings out while wearing a bunny suit and respirator. Hot work.

 

 

 

All I can picture....

 

 

So know we know what you get up to when your not building 10 models at a time Wink

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, September 12, 2016 8:37 PM

For a Norfolk man, no sweat at all.

When you bash down plaster and lath with heavy machinery (which will likely much resemble battle-collapsed structures, the stuff bust up in sheets and chunks, with splintered bits of lath hanging out.

The lath is not really even, and the plaster that has oozed arounf the lath (the professional term-of-art is "keyed") does so irregularly. 

So, a uniform v-groove sheet is kind of the wrong appearance.  Really, a blobbity line from a ruling pen (a fickle ancient tool of the darughtsman) would really be the right look, rendered with a mix of black and sepia ink.  Which ought be sprayed over with a gull gray to show the accumulated dust.

The "Pawel answer" would probably to slice some 0.030 sheet (0.8mm) into skinny strips, and then press milliput into 1mm sheet "bits" with the plastic strips in it.

If I find where I stashed my 0.030 sheet, and the skinny crescent board that is around here somewhere, I see about mocking up a bit.

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.