Diorama "Soviet Anti-Tank Team"

Gentlemen,

As this thread has clearly degenerated, I am locking it. In future, let's keep the name calling and insults out of the Forums. Everyone is welcome to post their builds and shouldn't be surprised when they receive comments about them. What comes with that is the expectation of some constructive criticism. Take it for what it is. If you dislike someone's comments, think before responding – don't fire back in anger, try to take the comments in the spirit they were intended. If you think someone is being unduly harsh and criticizing for the sake of criticizing, report it.

Thanks!

I think the one of the reasons that we keep coming back to looks at AI and Tuk's works is to see if they have improved one shred on the dios presented, hoping, praying that maybe THIS one will look half decent, and that they have possibly taken any of the critiques suggested to them.

As far as the war of words, I agree with Gino in the statement that MM only seems to be the one doing the name calling...looking forward to the next dio posted!

Uh...."dogs" have only ONE "O"; a doog has TWO "O"'s--any fol; I mean "fOOl" knows THAT!

Wow.  More proof of your level of maturity.  You are really looking like a fool now.  By the way, you are the only one who is waging a war of words.  The rest of us have been totally civil.  You are the one stooping to childish name-calling.  If you want to continue to look like an idiot and act like a child, more power to you. 

Model Maniac,

I had a lot of respect for you up until I read following comment made by you. 

"I hear all but listen to some. I read and see only what I like. There's no reason to read what I dislike or view what I don't like. I don't understand why some atta-boys here keep looking at AI's work when they don't like it, and then went mad each time they see. After all, nobody ask or force them to look at the first place. Are they crazy or stupid? (I think the latter) If they give comments in the next dio that I'm going to post soon, they'll only confirm that they are!"

I don't think I ever said I disliked work of AI or TUK and kept on feeding you with that "atta-boy" feedback.  I think this is the last time you'll see me commenting on any work you post up here (whether it is good or bad). 

Dwight Ta-ala wrote:
 
Model Maniac lives in Thailand. Thailand is located in the south-eastern part of mainland Asia while the Philippines is a group of islands farther east (in the Pacific side).

No he is not famous in the Philippines. But personally, I don't have any problem with his collection. I know that MM also builds models but he now has other builders whom he pays to build for him like Art Instructor, Tuk, etc. I know that the models of his builders are not the greatest and so are their dioramas but MM is happy. It is his money after all. If he thinks that the builds he is getting are great and I don't, do I have to shove my opinion to his face? I already know that the comments the builds he posts here gets seldom get through to AI, Tuk, etc. So what? I could at least just ignore his posts if I get irritated by the fact that it is just like getting around in circles. But why would I bother reading his posts?

If what MM is doing violates any forum rule, then I guess it's the Mod's duty to reprimand him.

There are a lot of experts in this forum. More often they want to share their expertise through comments made on the builds being shown here. Yes these comments are very helpful but I believe that such comments should be made with care as there is a thin line between "constructive criticism" (actually a misnomer) and arrogance.


Thanks so much for your kind comments, Dwight! You have made several good points. I just can't thank you enough!


ben1227 wrote:
I'm done here, but if Heavy Arty and MM start WW3, I'll be back Cool


Well, some nerds have stepped up from border dispute to full-scale war with me, a war of words. But Shock and Awe didn't work in Iraq, it won't work with me too. Now that we have a war between us, the name game is a little psychological tactic I employed. Apart from Dirty Arty, here he have 'the dog' and 'attaflesh' as well. Don't you be serious because I'm not serious. You gotta have some humor!

I hear all but listen to some. I read and see only what I like. There's no reason to read what I dislike or view what I don't like. I don't understand why some atta-boys here keep looking at AI's work when they don't like it, and then went mad each time they see. After all, nobody ask or force them to look at the first place. Are they crazy or stupid? (I think the latter) If they give comments in the next dio that I'm going to post soon, they'll only confirm that they are!

ben1227 wrote:

I'd rather build my own models than pay someone else to. I'm done here, but if Heavy Arty and MM start WW3, I'll be back

Right there with ya...  The fireworks are NOT to be missed!

I'd rather build my own models than pay someone else to. I'm done here, but if Heavy Arty and MM start WW3, I'll be back

Weird indeed, but it does have a kinda nice tree!

I know I shouldn't, but I just can't resist adding my .

Why does anyone care about MM and his builders?  Is he harming anyone by posting the commissions that he has paid for?  True, an argument could be made that he is not 'participating' in this on-line communtity in a 'good faith' way, in effect just using this forum as a dumping ground for his projects and to see his name in lights, but really, big deal.  It is no skin off my nose.  And by now, anyone (like myself) who has only a passing familiarity with MM knows that it is fruitless to try to offer any type of comment or criticism because it will go unacknowledged and, by all appearances, is not wanted.  That is fine with me.  When I see one of his posts, I open it up, take a look, make some mental comments to myself, and move on down the line.

The one thing I will say that borders on criticism is: what the heck was that rambling, bambling thing MM posted in response to Heavy Arty (the name calling was a little on the juvenile side if you ask me, MM)?  Something about how he single-handedly has propped up the whole modeling industry throughout the Pacific Rim?  That was just a little bit... wierd, if you ask me...  Of course, MM doesn't ask me, or anyone else for that matter....

m1garand wrote:

I do enjoy work of TUK and Art Instructor and MM seems to be a nice fella.  However, I am starting to wonder if Model Maniac's motive for his post in any forum is just for his way of showing off his collection and for his own bragging rights.  I'm starting to feel that MM's attitude is "Here's another work I purchased from TUK/AI.  I only want to hear is 'ITS GREAT PIECE OF WORK', otherwise, shut your mouth and I don't want to hear it" kind of attitude.  Most of us here who have commented towards to TUK/AI's works were generally in good way.  Usually start with "Nicely done, however...."  I don't think MM has ever acknowledged those comments, but he only acknowledges comments that are more towards to "ATTAH boy".   His motive for posting in this forum is totally different than reasons why we post in this forum.

NowTHERE'S around that was RIGHT ON TARGET!!!

I do enjoy work of TUK and Art Instructor and MM seems to be a nice fella.  However, I am starting to wonder if Model Maniac's motive for his post in any forum is just for his way of showing off his collection and for his own bragging rights.  I'm starting to feel that MM's attitude is "Here's another work I purchased from TUK/AI.  I only want to hear is 'ITS GREAT PIECE OF WORK', otherwise, shut your mouth and I don't want to hear it" kind of attitude. 

Most of us here who have commented towards to TUK/AI's works were generally in good way.  Usually start with "Nicely done, however...."  I don't think MM has ever acknowledged those comments, but he only acknowledges comments that are more towards to "ATTAH boy".   His motive for posting in this forum is totally different than reasons why we post in this forum.

Kelly_Zak wrote:

Well I think that AI is actually helping us benefit by having MM post his work online, it shows us how NOT to build dioramas.  But seriously, if MM wants to do his thing, I guess it's his right, however, instead of getting his crew to pump 'em out like an assembly line, AI and the others should tell MM that they need to slow down. Let them take their time and think out the scene that is to be done, then start the process. If it takes his guys say like two or three months to complete even a little scene, with careful thought, building and painting, I'm sure that these guys will produce much better work.

Great suggestion, Kelly!

But I think that you're missing the point--I believe that the MORE these guys pump out, the MORE it reduces the amount thqat they're in hawk to MM; like, "$50.00 dollars off for every completed dio or model...lets see, your balance is now..." Ya know? So I don't think that that course would really work for them! 

On the other hand, it's compellingly kind of funny and ironic to think that perhaps the reasons that we're seeing so little evolution or improvement in AI or Tuk's work is cuz they're just churning them out as fast and carelessly as possible just to "pay off" their debt!  Can't you just hear them around the tele at night...?

        "Oh man you should see the lame job I did on that panzer that I gave the old man today! But he LOVED it! Put it right up on that darned site again--oh man; the guys on there are going to TEAR IT APART!"

This argument has been on going for years. All these points are valid, yet have been reiterated over and over and over.

I agree with the theory that these posts are an exercise in how not to construct dioramas. Plus, it's fun to watch the fireworks These guys that are so hard on Model Maniac don't usually commment on everybody's posts, however when MM enters another one of his into the turkey-shoot, they come out of the woodwork to nail him. Although every now and then they actually find one worthy of some compliment, most are torn apart. I need that info, but don't necessarily have the cojones to endure such harsh criticism myself. So, for me, it's win-win.

Steve 

Well I think that AI is actually helping us benefit by having MM post his work online, it shows us how NOT to build dioramas.

 But seriously, if MM wants to do his thing, I guess it's his right, however, instead of getting his crew to pump 'em out like an assembly line, AI and the others should tell MM that they need to slow down. Let them take their time and think out the scene that is to be done, then start the process. If it takes his guys say like two or three months to complete even a little scene, with careful thought, building and painting, I'm sure that these guys will produce much better work. With the way that these seem to pop up in quickness, it's too bad because I'm sure that the guys probably don't get much of a chance to experiment with new techniques, etc, just get them out, so MM can get them online to show off his new aquisitions.

 When I first started doing dios a few years ago, I really didn't pay much attention to how things were placed, etc. Now, thanks to my friends (and online ones) they've pretty much helped me force myself to think a bit more of how I place things...causes and effects, and I thank them for it! It may take me alot longer to get something done now, but if the scene makes sense, then I've acheived that goal.

 MM, let your guys take their time, so what if you get only 3 dios a year, but I bet you'd be much much happier with something that is stunning rather than "what was his builder thinking when he put this rubbish together?"

 

Well if he continues to use it as a place to simply show off his models (I won't say his work, because he didn't make it), there's no sense in looking or even commenting at all.

ben1227 wrote:

I understand the logic and common sense part of things, but how are you supposed to know the exact details of everything, tactics, position of figures and vehicles, and how to arrange them so it does make sense?

...see his first answer, if that doesn't work try this: he's not, and that is the point that has been driven home again and again: the forum is here for that kind of info/feedback, yet many feel that MM is not open to anything but using the Forum as a way to showcase his bought work w/o actually engaging with other members in any meaningful way...

I understand the logic and common sense part of things, but how are you supposed to know the exact details of everything, tactics, position of figures and vehicles, and how to arrange them so it does make sense?

ben1227 wrote:

I agree the diorama didn't make much sense, but how is anyway who has had no military experience supposed to know those things?

Logic, research. Ben, I have no military experience and I understood that training what amounts to a .50 caliber gun against a target is not rational when you have a 120mm gun able to take on the same target. I also knew that if there was a tank in range of the anti tank gun, the tank would be in range of the target and the tank commander's calm, relaxed pose made no sense.

Dwight Ta-ala wrote:

the doog wrote: ...he apparently is "famous" for in Thailand or the Phillipines or somewhere like that. Model Maniac lives in Thailand. Thailand is located in the south-eastern part of mainland Asia while the Philippines is a group of islands farther east (in the Pacific side). No he is not famous in the Philippines. But personally, I don't have any problem with his collection. I know that MM also builds models but he now has other builders whom he pays to build for him like Art Instructor, Tuk, etc. I know that the models of his builders are not the greatest and so are their dioramas but MM is happy. It is his money after all. If he thinks that the builds he is getting are great and I don't, do I have to shove my opinion to his face? I already know that the comments the builds he posts here gets seldom get through to AI, Tuk, etc. So what? I could at least just ignore his posts if I get irritated by the fact that it is just like getting around in circles. But why would I bother reading his posts? If what MM is doing violates any forum rule, then I guess it's the Mod's duty to reprimand him. There are a lot of experts in this forum. More often they want to share their expertise through comments made on the builds being shown here. Yes these comments are very helpful but I believe that such comments should be made with care as there is a thin line between "constructive criticism" (actually a misnomer) and arrogance.

Good point, but there still isn't something right about the way he blows us off and rejects sometimes helpful constructive criticism. I agree the diorama didn't make much sense, but how is anyway who has had no military experience supposed to know those things?

the doog wrote:

...he apparently is "famous" for in Thailand or the Phillipines or somewhere like that.

Model Maniac lives in Thailand. Thailand is located in the south-eastern part of mainland Asia while the Philippines is a group of islands farther east (in the Pacific side).

No he is not famous in the Philippines. But personally, I don't have any problem with his collection. I know that MM also builds models but he now has other builders whom he pays to build for him like Art Instructor, Tuk, etc. I know that the models of his builders are not the greatest and so are their dioramas but MM is happy. It is his money after all. If he thinks that the builds he is getting are great and I don't, do I have to shove my opinion to his face? I already know that the comments the builds he posts here gets seldom get through to AI, Tuk, etc. So what? I could at least just ignore his posts if I get irritated by the fact that it is just like getting around in circles. But why would I bother reading his posts?

If what MM is doing violates any forum rule, then I guess it's the Mod's duty to reprimand him.

There are a lot of experts in this forum. More often they want to share their expertise through comments made on the builds being shown here. Yes these comments are very helpful but I believe that such comments should be made with care as there is a thin line between "constructive criticism" (actually a misnomer) and arrogance.

I agree with you Rick, and Doog....He completely disregards everyone's feedback and sometimes helpful suggestions. I now see the reason for Arty's wanting to start World War 3 with him. "Famous all over Thailand" for the models he doesn't build? I'd like for "Art Instructor" to come join us here instead of this guy. He may actually care...

And the thing about "Art Instructor" slaving away building models for him to pay off a loan? That is insane, but as Doog said, that could be heaven for him, or the opposite. After building 1-2 models for someone in a given amount of time, I'm ready to build myself one.

Not sure, but I'd be willing to bet this months pension cheque that Art Instructor is not his real name.

I think the higher level of critique stems from the fact that MM is posting work done by others that he bought/paid for, which some members seem to resent.  Kind of useless to give helpful modeling tips to a collector rather than a modeler.

Regards,  Rick

ben1227 wrote:

Moderators'll have this one locked up pretty quick. Before they do, someone explain to me who "Art Instructor" is and how he/she/it relates to Model Maniac; I'm confused.

OK--"Model Maniac" is a businessman in some foreign land who colects built models for his HUGE--and I mean H-U-G-E--collection, for which he apparently is "famous" for in Thailand or the Phillipines or somewhere like that. He gets TV coverage because of the size of his collection, and is like some "model-collecting 'rock-star'", and fancies himself some sort of glitterati because he has a big collection which he leaves open to the public. So far, so good.

The wierd part is that he apparently has "Art Instructor" in hawk to him for money that he loaned him to buy a house; so "Art INstructor" slaves away building models for MM in order to pay off his debt to him--either an idyllic existence or a nightmare, depending on your point of view. He also seems to employ other modellers as well, but they apparently don't speak English so they "can't" come onto the site to get feedback or compliments from the people here.

What irks me to no end is that, really, MM does not seem to want to be a part of the community here--he NEVER reciprocates with feedback or criticism of other guys' models, and he seems pretty content just to take the spotlight for other people who build HIS models. I just don't see the point of it--he used to post like, 5 or 6 posts at a time, which would bump all the other "legitimately built" posts down the page for models that had no educational value; I mean, you can't really ask what techniques were used, what parts are stock or AM, how he did this certain step, what problems he found with the kit, etc. It just seems like, I don't know--pointless to be complimenting or criticising a guy on kits which he DIDN'T EVEN BUILD!  MM's coments are always the same tone--"Thanks for your kind remarks", but he seems completely uninterested in constructive criticism, as if the recognition of a fault in one of his paid-for builds would somehow mean he had made a "bad investment"

I just wish that when Art Instructor finally frees himself from his indenntured servitude, that he gets on this site to learn and share with all the people here who would love to see him post and take credit for his own work, and improve from the criticisms he would receive.

Got it??? 

Thanks for explaining...I now see the "ongoing war" Now, I must know...Is Art Instructor his real name? I get this feeling it isn't. So he isn't a modeler, just a model collector. I see. Interesting...

Funny though, I'm still relatively new to modeling, but when I post pics of my mediocre models, people don't point out everything that's wrong, I just get helpful criticism and ideas for what to do to make it better next time.

the doog wrote:

rjkplasticmod wrote: Sorry Ben... I know the song but don't have a clue how to spell it .  You're right though, the Post now features ships which makes the discussion even more wierd than it already was. Regards,  Rick   K-U-M-B-A-Y-A my friend, Kumbaya!

Thanks Doog, I'll put that in my Blackberry .

Regards,  Rick

I try not to get involved in the ongoing war between ModelManiac & Heavy Arty, but from what I've gathered, MM is not a builder but a collector.  Art Instructor & another guy, Art's brother I think, are hired by MM to do builds & paint figures.  I have no problem with collectors as they support the Hobby in their own way & I've sold a few of my builds to local collectors at a very nice profit.

Most collectors are very demanding & expect nothing but the highest quality workmanship, where ModelManiac seems much more concerned about Quantity than Quality.  Most collectors are also rather aloof in sharing their collections with outsiders, so it's rather atypical for MM to post pics of the builds he has commissioned/bought.  Art Instructor seems to be a rather average builder & his brother a very average painter as well.  This is also atypical for most collectors, at least the ones I've dealt with, who are more demanding of high quality work & willing to pay for it.

Regards,  Rick

ben1227 wrote:

rjkplasticmod wrote: Sorry Ben... I know the song but don't have a clue how to spell it .  Regards,  Rick    The way I understand it is "Art instructor" builds these models and this guy presents them?

 

That sounds about right, as I reckon it. Model Maniac hired Art Instructor to build his models, which he seems to do at a rather rapid pace...hence the lukewarm responses you've seen so far.

I don't quite get it myself, but I'm a scratchbuilder, so for me the whole "puttin' things together" bit is the real joy of the experience. To me, having someone build models (that I buy) for me would be like buying a nice car and hiring someone else to drive it around the block while standing on the sidewalk telling folks: "Hey, that's MY Car. Pretty cool, huh?" 

Moderators'll have this one locked up pretty quick. Before they do, someone explain to me who "Art Instructor" is and how he/she/it relates to Model Maniac; I'm confused.